Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Just got done reading this meta on which ship’ the poster thinks in most popular & why- I found some points rather interesting:
Anonymous said: Do you think Captain Swan is the most popular ship? Or do you think it’s Swan Queen, Rumbelle, or Snowing? Lol I know it isn’t Swanfire. Sorry but not sorry lol. CS just seems to get so much hate though, but maybe this is due to their popularity?? I don’t really pay attention to polls or facebook etc…Just what I see on tumblr and twitter
Hmmm, good question and hard to pin point, but….I’ll come out and say that I do think CS is probably the most popular ship and find my reasons below:
Aside from a few vocal, whiney fans, the only polls SF ever wins are “worst couple” or Bagel’s still leading in “Dead Man Walking”. Even somewhat SMF positive sites admit Bagel’s incredibly unpopular.
Snowing is largely out because while they are the core family, etc—-they’re really only moderately popular separately and they’ve become quite boring and back burnered. While I don’t take internet polls as gospel (more on that later), Snowing generally barely even registers. tbh, I didn’t even know there WERE still Snowing shippers
That said, about polls: internet polls are painfully unscientific—-a group of rabid fans, quickly clearing cookies is all that’s needed to completely skew the results of poll, rendering it meaningless. And nowhere do we see this more than with SQ.
Why am I convinced SQ isn’t the most popular? To begin, it’s a crack!ship, so it’s hard, honestly to take it seriously to begin with. Even if many people did support it, most viewers of a show still go with actual, cannon pairings, not fantasy. Not only is it a crack!ship, it’s a crack!ship that will never, ever happen.
However, I do think they’re rather vociferous fan base that for some reason feels by winning internet polls (though whatever means necessary), they’ll achieve legitimacy. Ironically, they’re remarkably similar to the Tea Party—-they’re insular (“everyone I know is SQ/a tea partier”) and assume that yelling loudly translates to hard numbers (it doesn’t, with the Tea Party, scientifically conducted polls show only 20% of the country views them in any sort of positive light, down by almost half in just 4 years).
Rumbelle is the only ship that’s close or might even beat CS in popularity, in fact many CSers also support Rumbelle. For a variety of reasons, I personally don’t (among other things, SparkleDark much more interesting bad)——but I actually suspect overall most people aren’t all that invested in them. Again, their fans are simply very, very loud.
As for why CS engenders so much hate—-here’s an interesting thing diehard SF, SQ and Rumbelle all have in common (and again, share with the Tea Party), even as they’re loudly insisting they’re the most popular, they’re gonna win, stupid , delusional CS losers….they’re also all painting themselves as victims when their ship’s storyline doesn’t go as planned.
Even though Rumbelle is a cannon ship and it’s clearly the show’s style to put couples through hell, its shippers are endlessly whining about this. With SF, Bagel is generally in the background to begin with, and the show is pretty obvious about its CS leanings——so there’s a lot of whining, SQ is never gonna happen. So CS is seen the obstacle and the showrunners, the actors and the CS shippers are targets of the other ships’ frustrations. Or more simply, they’re jealous and act like petty b!%@hes because of it.
Other sources supporting CS’s popularity: contrary to what other ships claim, ABC’s publicity department is NOT incompetent, they heavily feature Colin because he’s money and what the fans want. Simple, recent example? Today’s VD cards on the Once FB page—-Hook’s received over 100K “likes”, the next most “liked” was Charmz’s at 39K, and this is consistent for Colin’s FB pictures. CS is constantly getting press coverage, being recognized as best this or best that. No other couple makes that extensive a cross over impression.
Which translates to not only does the devoted, online fandom (which actually represents a very small percentage of viewership as a whole) like CS, the casual viewer does too. So in reality, there’s no question CS is the most popular girl in school!
P.S. sorry this got so long. You hit a subject I’m fascinated by and love to discuss!
http://zumpie.tumblr.com/post/76709008572/do-you-think-captain-swan-is-the-most-popular-ship-or
The person makes some good points- Although I dont agree with everything they’ve said, there’s a few generalizations in there that I dont quite agree with.
[adrotate group="5"]I was more a “Pudding” kid. (Grin)
Over here pudding = the same as dessert, but I’m assuming you mean ‘pudding’ as in ‘cake type thing with sauce on it’?
@ellemo78, I’ll get you the link and you tell me if it’s you http://wishforrainbow.tumblr.com/post/96283455442/sulietford-bnaz-shipping-aside-what-the?og=1&fb_action_ids=1470425663238133&fb_action_types=tumblr-feed%3Areblog
Oh no that’s definitely not me! They obviously don’t have a sense of humour.
Ugh, no they dont, do they :/
I do think it would be very funny if someone spoofed that scene into him coming out of a strip joint though- like changed out the music to ‘bow chicka wow wow’ or something …… *wishes on a star for someone, somewhere to get creative & make a parody of that whole promo* lol …. it cant be me, my laptop wont allow any free movie editing software to function on it- stupid win 8 🙁
Oh- they could turn his scene into a leaves strip joint & cut Regina & Emma into it with “Here we go again” & “Really?!” lol
& nope there’s obvs not going to be a strip joint in a family friendly show lol
What’s also funny is that Hook thinks Jello has medicinal properties. He understands very few things about our world but jello to him, is medicine. Mark my words, if Emma were sick with the flu or morning sickness, the first thing Hook would bring her is a bowl of jello because he thinks it’ll make her feel better. And I appreciate how the writers kept this affinity for jello in the show by showing him bring Neal jello in 3×15.
Yes it is funny that he thinks it does. I thought him bringing Neal jello was totally cute- loved that bit & agree on his pulling out the jelly as a remedy to help cure whatever ails Emma &/or Henry- I’d give almost anything for a Killy making ‘magic’ Jelly for his sick loved ones scene lol 😉
Another awesome post @Bo-Peeps & I totally agree with you.
You do get some genuinely interesting opinions and posts in the SF thread. However there are some tumblr posts that appear there that do just make you facepalm and laugh because of the stupidity especially the one about Hook coming out of a strip club. And then there are some tumblr posts that are genuinely funny like the Zelena nominating Hook for the ice bucket challenge one.
Hopefully one day, maybe when the negativity dissipates, I’ll have a nosy over there, but for now (I’ve been told) most of the thread is snark & negative comments- which is a shame.
Oh, please do link to Zelena nominating Hook for Ice bucket- I havent seen that yet, sounds like fun 🙂
I did like Neal and Henry’s relationship and do feel that Neal’s purpose to the show wasn’t necessarily over, because paralleling Neal & Henry’s relationship with Neal & Rumple’s could have made for some interesting storytelling. However, with an enormous cast, and multiple storylines, not all can be told and ultimately, the writers chose Neal’s stories were not as integral to the overall plotline to continue with it.
Absolutely agree.
It is quite possibly the grossest “food” ever created. Unnatural doesn’t even begin to describe…Hook’s ‘hallucination’ does fit, though.
On the Jell-o thing: I used to like it when I was little, but now I find it rather gross now for multiple reasons, but I can’t eat it anyway because I’m a vegetarian and gelatin comes from the skin, bones, and connective tissues of meat animals.
Yay- I have a ‘Eww Jello’ friends- we shall stand together against the tide of ‘yummy jello loving’ souls lol (can you tell I’ve been watching & reading epic dramas lately lol) 😛 😉
Milah and Rumple seemed to have rubbed off on Neal. There are parallels of Milah’s behaviour and traits in Neal as well as parallels of Rumple’s traits and behaviour in Neal. Milah was in Neal’s life until he was about 5 or 6 so he would’ve witnessed the state of Rumple and Milah’s marriage and, as that was probably his first example of what a marriage/romantic relationship was, he probably thought it normal because he didn’t know any different.
Another very good point & I love the examples you used.
Neal has never really had a stand-alone episode to fill in the missing gaps in his history without the interference of other characters.
Yes exactly & that’s why I find it so odd that some people have placed so much importance on him as a stand alone character to the story. Neal has almost been treated as a pawn in fleshing out Rumple & Emma’s back stories since he was introduced in S2.
The conclusion I came to in writing that was never posted, is that the character of Neal was never meant to be an important character outside his relationships with his father and Emma. From his time with Emma, we understand why she has trust issues and his relationship with his father, why Rumple did what he did to enact the curse.
Should have finished reading your post before quoting part of it lol 😉 Yep, 100% agree with your assessment… also wish like crazy those questions got answered *sigh*
The person who answered the above question, also pointed out that comparing Rumbelle & SF doesnt make sense, as they are so different in intent- the closest thing to SF is Rumple/Milah – here’s the link (the gif set shows uncanny parallels & it really struck me how often the show has directly paralleled CS with Snowing & SF with Rumple/Milah- from lines of dialogue, to situation/choices)
http://anti–swanfire.tumblr.com/post/95157957496/rumsy4-obisgirl-boyfriendhook
Those are very interesting parallels and actually add another dimension to SwanFire: Neal was playing out his parents’ marriage subconsciously.
Yes, I thought so as well.
The person who answered the above question, also pointed out that comparing Rumbelle & SF doesnt make sense, as they are so different in intent- the closest thing to SF is Rumple/Milah – here’s the link (the gif set shows uncanny parallels & it really struck me how often the show has directly paralleled CS with Snowing & SF with Rumple/Milah- from lines of dialogue, to situation/choices)
http://anti–swanfire.tumblr.com/post/95157957496/rumsy4-obisgirl-boyfriendhook
Also I think part of the problem with SwanFire is that Neal didn’t get a lot of screentime in his own right. Screwball Ninja has a fantastic essay on Neal and screentime. http://screwballninja.tumblr.com/post/76569212095/whats-the-deal-with-neal-or-why-nealfire-gets
I wrote my own answer to that question in the SF thread:
I think the answer to your question comes down to screentime and more specifically Rumple and Emma got a lot more screentime than Belle and Neal did respectively. With Rumple and Emma being the more prominent character in their respective relationships (though hopefully Belle’s screentime will continue to grow throughout season 4), the audience is more likely to take their side if that makes sense. For example, the audience has got to know Rumple pretty well over the last 3 seasons, more so than Belle who we don’t know much about prior to Skin Deep. Therefore when Rumple screws up and he’s really sorry about it, the audience wants Belle to forgive him and reunite with Rumple even though they acknowledge Belle has every right to be angry at him but still, they want RumBelle to kiss and make up.
With SwanFire, Emma was the more prominent character in that relationship therefore the audience is going to take her side. In Emma’s view, Neal abandoned her and left her to go to prison and had a negative view of him therefore the audience sides with Emma rather than Neal. Lack of screentime has been Neal’s enemy from the start. In fact Screwball Ninja has a brilliant essay on Neal and the lack of screentime.
The same thing is probably going to happen with OutlawQueen. Regina has had more screentime than Robin and Marian put together, therefore the audience is more likely to side with Regina in that scenario. Most people are convinced that Marian is going to end up dead again which is a shame, but the audience has been led to sympathise with Regina over Marian so they want Regina to get what she wants.
Very good point & it definitely plays a part in I think.
You’ve kind of tempted me with what the SF feel about it – but not enough to brave the storm over there lol 😉Something else I found on my online wanderings (this is from waaaay back in S2, but has some very valid points)…
…This is partly why I like the Hook and Emma interactions so much. Hook would never have left Milah. He loved her too much to hurt her like that – especially on the word of someone like Pinocchio. It’s obvious in everything he does that the people he loves are absolutely treasured by him. With how perceptive Emma is she would have seen this, she could have trusted this. When she handcuffed Hook at the top of the beanstalk she said “I can’t take the chance that I’m wrong about you”. This all comes back to Neal and her inability to trust people. Hook was also genuinely hurt that she abandoned him, he wouldn’t have taken it so badly otherwise. He didn’t take it badly that she didn’t believe him about the blacksmith ruse or when she was obviously going to leave him to the ogres tied to a tree. This was because she was right, on top of the beanstalk she wasn’t. Emma trusts Hook far more quickly than she’s trusted anyone else on the show. She opens up to him about her personal life and the event in her life that hurt her more deeply than anything else. She hasn’t even talked to Mary Margaret about that, but her and Hook are sort of kindred spirits in that they were both irreparably damaged by the loss of someone they loved. Lost in different ways but they were still hurt. She left him on the beanstalk because she felt that she could trust him and she was afraid of that.
http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/once-upon-a-time/articles/219045/title/why-swanfire-doesnt-make-sense
I think they could have one big bad per season but spread them out over the two arcs. Either have the big bad win the first arc then get defeated in the second arc or have them beaten in the first arc but come back with a vengeance for the second arc and their final defeat.
They could’ve spread Neverland out for the entire 22 episodes and saved Zelena for season 4 (Though that would have made for a very depressing Summer hiatus because of Rumple’s death.)
For Neverland, they could’ve:
Shown Storybrooke every episode so that it wasn’t missed. They could’ve shown Belle watching the ship leave in the first episode. Also there was a power vacuum since all the go to people (Snowing, Regina, Emma) were in Neverland so they could’ve shown Belle dealing with that. Instead we were told that everything was a-ok up to Ariel’s arrival.
There would’ve been opportunity to show backstory for several characters such as Tinkerbell, Felix, Bae’s time in Neverland, Pan, Wendy in Neverland, even what Hook did for Pan. All those characters would’ve interacted at some point. What was the “dirty work” Hook did for Pan? Why did Felix hope he’d never see Bae again? How did Wendy get back to Neverland? What was Hook and Tink’s history? How did Bae and Tink know each other? What did Bae do on the island in his cave? All these unanswered questions that, unless there is a Neverland spinoff, won’t be answered.
Shown what Henry actually did at Pan’s camp and actually have Henry do something. Why did he trust Pan over his own parents? How did Pan get the picture of Henry.
3A could’ve ended with them coming back from Neverland on the ship. We think everything’s okay but shock horror, Pan switched bodies with Henry and nobody knows it.
3B could’ve dealt with Pan and Felix creating havoc in Storybrooke. Pan is dividing the heroes right when they need to stick together. They could’ve shown Pan and Felix gathering the things they need for the curse and taking the time to do that. As it stands, Pan and Felix are either the most efficient curse casters, having everything they need in “less than a day”, or Regina was just really lazy about casting the curse that it took her nearly nine months to get her act together.
3B could’ve ended the same way as 3A (though that was really depressing and felt so much like a series finale) All that we saw in 3A would’ve been included but it would’ve been fleshed out over 22 episodes rather than forced into 11.
I agree they could have fleshed it out more for sure, to get to 22eps, they also could have stretched out Emma finally ‘believing’ by at least one more season, as they could have done when Emma & Snow went to EF, but they didnt.
I’m just hoping what ever they end up doing, they keep the character moments in the eps. Part of why I disliked S2, is it felt like we rarely got to experience the characters dealing with/reacting to anything on a personal level & I believe that’s where a lot of ‘misunderstandings’ sprung up- like what Emma was actually thinking & feeling, what Snowing were thinking & feeling, even what Henry was thinking & feeling with regards to certain sections of the fandom.You don’t like jelly??? Oh wow, I didn’t think there was anyone in the world who didn’t like jelly! Well I never liked it with ice-cream, but still, it’s brilliant! And blue jelly was always my favourite, the less natural looking, the better.
LOL, it’s true & I’ll wave my ‘eww Jelly’ flag with pride lol 😛 😉
‘Tis an unnatural looking thing to be placing in ones mouth & it tastes like watered down refined sugar, which I find gross (but then I’ve never liked the taste of refined sugar). Nope I’ll stick with 100% berry &/or fruit sorbet for my deserts & leave the jelly to the rest of the world lol 😛 😉Ok, So saw this in my wanderings:
So I saw a BA/SFer question: why CSers who ship Rumbelle can’t support SF, because apparently if you can support Belle not giving up on loving Rumple despite their issues, the same should be for Emma and Neal not giving up on each other despite Neal’s own “flaws.”
My answer to this is simple- context… big, giant, fat, flashing neon lights, context.
Sure Rumple was a jerk for chucking Belle in a cell & an even bigger jerk when he told her to leave, but-
1) Belle chose to be there/ go with him & had no illusions about who he was, what he was capable of & why she was there.
2) She is emotionally strong.
3) Knew what & why, what happened was happening, as it played out.
4) She & Rumple weren’t ‘together’ yet, so there wasn’t that deep intimat connection of trust & love well established.
5) It wasn’t like Rumple actively set Belle up for the EQ to catch & throw into a cell, then walked off into the sunset. Rumple told Belle to leave. Then without Rumple’s knowledge, Regina caught her & threw her in a cell- Rumple thought Belle dead, if he’d known otherwise, he’d have gone after her & fought for her, which is the whale sized difference between the 2 couples & why they arent the “same or similar”Neal knew Emma:
1) Wanted family badly
2) Had abandonment issues
3) Felt unworthy
4) Was a hurting teenager
Maybe 5) Had trust issues? (not sure if these came about post Neal or not) & then he not only just up & abandons her, disappearing out of her life with no explanation or good bye, he also lets her be sent to jail for a crime he committed. Emma had no clue it was coming, what was happening or why. She had dropped her walls for him- loved him, trusted him with all her heart & Neal went & betrayed her on every level for it.
He knowingly reinforced every major issue Emma had in life & made them 100% worse. His actions alone meant Emma:
1) Wouldn’t allow herself to trust- at all, as people cant be trusted.
2) Thought she’d never be good enough to love/ have family & gave up her baby.
3) Thought everyone, no matter what they said or how they acted, would always choose to abandon her when it came down to it.
4) Couldn’t allow herself to have feelings for or love anyone, as they’d simply destroy her for it- it took her son dying for her to fully accept she “loved” him.
Neal almost single-handedly destroyed Emma on an emotional level & what made it so much worse, was he chose not to bother going to find her & at least apologise for his actions when he knew where she was, after the curse was broken- in short Neal chose not to fight for Emma at least twice, he chose not to bother looking for her at least twice, despite knowing she was alive & loved him/had loved him.The person who answered the above question, also pointed out that comparing Rumbelle & SF doesnt make sense, as they are so different in intent- the closest thing to SF is Rumple/Milah – here’s the link (the gif set shows uncanny parallels & it really struck me how often the show has directly paralleled CS with Snowing & SF with Rumple/Milah- from lines of dialogue, to situation/choices)
