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@Possum Snoodle
You wrote:I’m hunting Alice dialogue. I seem to recall Alice worried about being stuck in age, size, location, and such. Hmm.
There are several other features of Wonderland that were stuck: the Mad Tea Party, the Red Queen’s obsessions and the White Rabbit’s chronic lateness – for instance. It’s possible that Lewis Carroll was commenting on what happens when our use of logic precludes self reflection (going into a looking glass). If we cannot consider the “3 fingers pointing back at ourselves” when we point fingers at others, our own story grounds to a halt. Getting unstuck calls for seeing what we’re doing to ourselves when we do things to others and how we create our own limitations by being unimaginative.
@charming
You wrote:Booth to Lewis Carroll is a harder case to make, his real name was Charles Lutwidge Dodgson (01/27/1832 to 01/14/1898) he was mathmatician, logician and Anglican deacon. If one can find a connection that fits I can agree because 2 of the 3 does fit and the third I do not see too clearly. Thoughts???
I’m thinking the connection of Booth to Lewis Carroll is too logical and literal, just like Emma was being with Jefferson discussing what is “the real world”. Instead of what is, let’s play with what-if questions:
1. What if August Booth is merely a self-referential character for the writers of OUAT, like the White Knight was for Lewis Carroll.
2. What if Jefferson’s dialogue is an homage to Lewis Carroll’s approach to the intersection of logic and imagination?
3. What if that room with the big window and sea of hats is symbolic of how Charles Dodgson abandoned the Anglican Church’s dictates about Hell and Eternal Damnation?
4. What if Jefferson’s getting stuck in Wonderland in FTL and that abandoned church sanctuary somewhere — are the result of being unimaginative?
5. What if Jefferson created his living hell by “hating Wonderland” and “hating the curse” that kept him apart from his daughter in SB?
6. What if he will discover he has magic himself when he can abandon either/or logic and embrace both/and paradoxes?
7. What if his beheading in Wonderland shows him his logical split between his mind & body, head & heart, or thinking & feeling?
8. What if the writers of OUAT realize that Lewis Carroll could have written the show because he was both logical and imaginative, not exclusively one or the other? 😀[adrotate group="5"]You’re welcome PS! I suspect the White Knight could not advance with Alice because of the metaphor of a chess board in that story. Most pieces in chess have limited moves, unlike Queens and Kings. I have yet to see August experience limited movement – so that seems to me another disparity between the White Knight and August.
The “water” issues August has revealed so far deal with how magical water can be, how good it tastes to him and how he asks for a glass at Granny’s over anything else on the menu.
EQ/Regina seems to use everyone in her life and to care for no one. When they don’t serve her uses for them she discards them as she did with Graham/Huntsman or threatens to discard them as she did with Sidney/Genie. So I suspect she is using Jefferson, like all the others. The difference emerges from how useful Jefferson is to her. He gets her job done. When the two arrive at the room with all the doors in the Hat Trick episode, Regina says to Jefferson: “I forgot how magnificent you are”. She appreciates quality on her own terms — using people to the max.
@Possum Snoodle wrote:
I had a thought:
August W Booth = The White Knight aka Lewis Carroll.
August rides a motorcycle (his horse?) and uses a pen – or typewriter as his writing/wrighting sword, which, he could also use to edit/alter/kill words, lines, plots – and characters – thus righting – or re-writing – a wrong. This would give him a greater magic than Mr. Gold’s.My intuition has been baiting me with this same possibility: that August’s magic could transform more than Mr. Gold’s or Rumple’s ever will. The writers of OUAT seem to have amazing magical powers when it comes to enchanting audiences as well as their cast & crew of the show. It seems appropriate that the writers would insert a character into the show that represented themselves and revealed some of their magical powers.
My recollection of the White Knight is of a “goofball” with a very different personality from August W. Booth. Here’s a synopsis I found online at http://www.shmoop.com/alice-in-wonderland-looking-glass/white-knight.html
The White Knight
Character Analysis
Character in: Looking-Glass World
The White Knight is Alice’s escort through the second-to-last square. As Lewis Carroll’s own self-depiction in the book, the White Knight is a daydreaming inventor, a foolish and awkward man who is highly sentimental. His cleverness is entirely impractical, but it still moves us to adoration. When he must leave Alice to her next journey – across the final brook to become a queen – the White Knight can’t follow. We sense that this is how Carroll himself feels about the real-life Alice Liddell growing up: he can’t follow her into puberty, and is left with only his memories of his child-friend.mia wrote:
side note: You added Merlin to your avatar! Is that series good?I love the BBC Merlin Series. It’s exploring the good and bad uses of magic, keeping magic hidden from its opponents and, like OUAT, regarding mythical stories as having really happened.
mia wrote:
Hm, I guess this one is arguable. I don’t think Regina sees Snow as having no dark side.Jungian psychologists turn a wonderful phrase: constellating the shadow. It refers to situations that are extremely one-sided evoking the dark intruder. Snow’s & Charming’s picture perfect wedding in the Pilot episode is a perfect example of “constellating the shadow”. MM’s & David’s kissing on the street seems like another.
I got inspired to write this by re-watching the scenes with the Evil Queen Regina and those with Cora. Between the two of them in FTL, they’ve displayed almost every one of these dozen patterns. Regina in SB seems pretty tame compared to her back story counterparts.
We presume that we’ve only been shown one copy of the book thus far. It’s possible that August was not repairing that one copy, but rather producing a new one with the “Emma pages” restored. The book does not appear to be produced by scribes handiwork. It appears printed which suggests there are many copies. August may have read this book cover to cover in Kansas. Jefferson might have a copy at his mansion in SB. We know MM had a copy to give to Henry. Archie and Emma have both been exposed to Henry’s valuing the book to the point of wanting their own copy eventually. Kathryn could use a copy to clear up her confused state of mind now that’s she’s returned. There’s lots of ways for the plot of OUAT to move forward with several copies of the book.
I’ll have to rewatch the Hat Trick episode to provide a better response. I was under the impression that the scenes we saw in Wonderland were entirely pre-curse, since Jefferson and Regina were there. I am also presuming that all FTL characters came to Storybrooke, including the Queen of Hearts.
I’ve been a college instructor, yes, but not of literature. I’ve taught business strategy, creative problem solving and psychology. I was reading 2 books a week while I was teaching which broadened by knowledge far beyond what I ever learned from formal education.
Hopefully that cat has not been killed, but rather has a Cheshire grin. 😀
Mr. Gold has every reason to eliminate dark magic since he/Rumple is constantly paying the price for using it, just like that Dark One predecessor. Dark magic leads to unhappy endings. But the restoration of happy endings leaves room for lots of light magic to support everyone’s dreams coming true.
When Sheriff Graham started remembering after kissing Emma, he began wandering desperately in the woods. When David started remembering after a hypno-regression session with Archie, he panicked. When Jefferson connected the dots, he held hostages at gunpoint. All this supports what Dorothy said:
I don’t mean to be a kill-joy, but I’m just saying this could get ugly.
On the other hand, both Henry and August appear to have total recall of FTL and individuals’ pre-curse abilities, relationships and happy endings. Neither is going crazy in SB. Their knowledge appears to be a comfort to them. So I’m hopeful that they will discover ways to serve as catalysts for the curse to self-destruct and for the evil characters to become their own worst enemies.
