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They simply stayed in a cabin, not really bothering anyone and waiting for their centrics. They were the time killers before we got to the Author.
Boy you said it. WASTE. Oooooo look at me, I’m Regina being bad with the queens of darkness to try and infiltrate them. I’m playing chicken on train tracks and flipping cop cars. Look at me and my bad self. It was an utter joke. Give me 4a any day of the week. We lost crucial characters to frozen new character stuff, but at least the themes worked well. 4b was a ridiculous mess.
When Merlin said one day, someone will be able to harness the darkness and be able to wield it’s power for good (or something along those lines), I think everyone thought that could be Emma. But maybe that person is Rumple?
Season 4a:
Favorite episode: The Snow Queen
Honorable Mentions: The Apprentice, Heroes and Villains
Favorite New Character Introduced: The Snow Queen
Honorable Mentions: The Apprentice, Little Bo Peep
Favorite Moment: Snow Queen sacrifices herself and joins her sisters in death
Honorable Mentions: Belle confronts Rumple and sends him out of storybrooke
Looking back on it, I still enjoyed this season more than most. I thought Elsa and Anna fit into the story quite nicely, and although it was a ratings grab, I thought it was done better than most people felt.
Season 4B:
Favorite Episode: Sympathy for the De Vil (hands down), Operation Mongoose
Favorite Character Introduced: Cruella de Vil
Favorite Moment: Emma killing Cruella, Emma being engulfed in the darkness, meeting the author
Season could have been so much better. I thought it was pretty weak for the most part. I did not like how Maleficient was done and I hated Ursula even more.
I thought the half season worked better for season 4 than it did with season 3 simply because it had overarching themes spread throughout. It had the sorcerer’s hat, the sorcerer’s mansion, Lily, the heroes vs. villains theme, the author. So in that sense because those things carried over, I thought it worked ok.
All of this being said, other than Rumple’s Girl, who has made her opinions very clear on Neal returning, now that we know it’s likely only for the cold opening, are you mad? Glad to see him even if only for a brief moment? Disappointed they couldn’t bring him back for more? Do you think it’s cruel for fans of Neal to get a glimpse of him, only to have them take him away again, and possibly even endorsing CS?
Figured I’d bring it back, since that’s what the thread was about. Since I don’t feel as strongly about Neal’s death as everyone else, I for one will be very happy to see a familiar face again, even if for only a short amount of time. He’s in this 100th episode because the writers know he was important to the show.
Honestly, I think this has more to do with the fact that the writers weren’t sure what to do with Neal.
Yup, so they killed him off. And honestly I know the CS ship had something to do with it. But also, the way they were writing the character, it just felt they didn’t know what else to do with him.
While having fighting ability might be what popular culture superficially portrays as being strong, the two are not synonymous. Being physically strong does not make a character strong (e.g. the stereotype of a beefy jock, who though very athletic, doesn’t have very much going on upstairs; his only primary motivation tends to showing how big and powerful he is). By contrast, when I write about strong characters, I mean characters who have complex motivations, rich histories with other characters, and a strong sense of agency. Therefore, a character might be physically weak but end up develop a cunning intellect (e.g. think Tyrion on GoT whose mind is his weapon). Thus, when people like @nevermore bemoan the fact that most of OUAT’s characters (both male and female) are cardboard, what they mean is that the characters have become very flat. Instead of their wishes shaping their environment in ways that are unique to them, the plot controls them. This goes back to @Keb‘s earlier point that the characters often seem to act OOC now as they react in ways which previously seemed unfathomable and unrealistic, given previously establish facets of their earlier personalities (which in seasons one through three were much more in tact and intricate). This essay really addresses the issue in a good way, and I think it applies not just to female characters, but also to male ones.
All of this is very true. But I don’t believe that Neal was ever on the same intellect level as Tyrion. Every character in that show is very strong, for the most part, because they have to be otherwise they wouldn’t survive. And yes, strong can mean a lot of things. But I don’t know if we saw enough of Neal’s street smart skills to deem him worthy of being intellectually strong. And we know he didn’t have magic. And there wasn’t any increased physical strength I remember him showing. He’s eotionally strong, sure. But that’s not going to help you in a fight. It’s not the best comparison, but similarly in GoT, you are in a setting where people are bad. We get villains on OUAT every half season who are extremely powerful. And we have heroes who are extremely powerful. Other than being connected emotionally and physically to many of the characters, Neal did not represent any sort of strength to me and therefore appeared out of his league when dealing with people with magic. Yes, he has done things, but usually with the help of others (the shadow, trapping Pan in squid ink, etc.) I basically was saying that realistically it would be hard for him to survive in a world with magic and evil villains, even with Rumple and Emma protecting him And as a result, he felt like a boring character when magic fights were happening (like when Cora and Regina attack Gold’s shop). He wasn’t very helpful. That’s all I was really getting at. But yes, the writing is part of it. I’m sure they could have incorporated Neal as a stronger character to help him adapt in a land with magic.
I only compared it to Game of Thrones because it came to my head. GoT is able to kill off characters, even after setting up a theme for them going forward with potential interactions and plot points. But instead, it fools us, gets our hopes up, and takes the character away from us, and then we never get some of those interactions we were hoping for. But after the death, Got handles it well. It moves the plot in an interesting fashion, albeit usually a sharp right turn. OUAT did not handle Neal’s death properly and the subsequent writing was not done well. And his death really didn’t set up much future conflict for the plot. I understand that the show is about family, and one of the themes surrounding season 3 was second chances, but that doesn’t mean they can’t set us up for that, and then surprise us and take that away. Again, for me, I was surprised and I was intrigued to see what they would do with the story (call it a fallout). But it’s what they did after Neal’s death that made it feel like the death was pointless. They could have killed him and still kept the show going strong. But that’s not what happened. Now, maybe this Neal scene will provide some more closure at least, but as someone who isn’t a fan of any particular ship, and just likes seeing old faces pop up again, I’m excited to see Neal and will not deem it cruel if he shows up so we can get the Henry-father interaction, and to get his blessing, and then we don’t see him again. It will be nice just to see an old face again that I enjoyed.
Maybe I’m getting grumpy with age, but I find myself less and less impressed by a portrayal of masculinity where the guy must kick butt, swing a sword, or “cast magic missiles.
I’m not so sure this has anything to do with masculinity. The women are very strong on the show. Rumple we know is strong with magic, Charming has his sword fighting abilities, heck even Robin has his bow and arrow. And we’ve seen Belle kick some butt too. But Neal has no fighting skills. And that’s fine. Not all men need to be tough, but I just feel in a world with magic, it would be hard for him to survive because literally everyone other than maybe Henry have some sort of strength they can use. If you were ok with Neal sitting back in the background like an Archie character or a dwarf then fine. But the main players are all very strong. Neal is a strong person in his own way. But the ability to defend and fight I feel he was lacking. For me, he felt out of place in a land with magic in storybrooke.
OUAT did something tragic and istead of letting the characters react to it, it just ignored it and went back to normal, so what was the point in killing him?
Well and that’s what I meant when I said I didn’t mind the death. I cared about how the writing afterwards treated it. If they treated it well, and the death moved the plot in a good intriguing direction, then I don’t think people would be as mad at the death itself.
