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Is not the same, bc Rumple is a true sacrifice, he did died to save everyone and he wasnt not the one that cause the problems in 3A, unlike Hook, that was not a sacrifice, he died to solve the problem that he caused in the 1st place, since was hook that opened the portal to Underworld and brought all dark ones to kill everyone And if we compare sacrifices, another example was Neal, that died to save a town that pretended that after he died pretended he never existed.
I was waiting for someone to object to this. It absolutely is not the most perfect comparison. You’re right, Hook did cause what he eventually fixed, whereas Rumple was just doing it for his family. Although I will say if you buy Hook not really being in control, than you could put the blame on Emma for turning him into the DO.
But really, the comparison was both dark ones sacrificing themselves to save everyone. It was a loose comparison.
[adrotate group="5"]Victoria is in quite a few episodes.
They realized they killed off a great character, a villain they did right finally with zero redemption possible. Better bring her back for as many episodes as we can!
Rumple is not a good guy. He’s manipulative, and can be cold and cruel. But he also recognizes his own villainy–“I’m the villain. And villains don’t get happy endings” (and then dies to save the town without having first tired to kill them all). That to me is a big difference. It certainly doesn’t make him a saint and if anyone has listened to the podcast this season OR read anything I’ve written, they know that I’m really struggling to still like/defend Rumple like I did in seasons past.
Haha yes I’ve heard your struggle. The struggle is real and for good reason. But as you pointed out, despite the things Rumple did and has done, there was something about how Hook was acting and what he was saying in the one day he was the DO that was just way worse, even if he didn’t kill anyone. However, also worth pointing out, that despite how awful he was and really just letting the darkness take over him with what seemed like zero fight at all, he did make the right decision in the end. It’s something you can certainly compare to Rumple’s sacrifice at the end of 3A.
I take it you don’t have much of an inroad with the fandom at large? Or are just now getting your feet wet?
I try to stay away from fandom pages and ship wars etc. for this very reason: because people get all hot and bothered over a line or an action. I stay independent and look at both sides. It just appears like I’m a Hook fan because I’m the only one defending his character a bit here, but that’s only because everyone else is dumping on him. I certainly know his flaws very well.
The behavior i am expecting from a villain is that they then don’t get to date the main good guy and be called a hero with a snap of the writers fingers.
Fair enough. I suppose if the villains ends up dating the heroine, and she doesn’t even acknowledge some of the sleazy things he said to her, then that probably doesn’t send a good message.
I don’t think you’re trying to say that rape and murder–and any actions taken by the villains–aren’t any of those *synonyms* but that’s what offensive means, not just something that you personally take as hurtful.
Yes haha very true. I certainly don’t feel like rape and murder are not any of those synonyms you listed. They are. What I am simply saying is we should expect villains to exhibit this behavior. So while murder is terrible, it is television, not real life. Someone just got killed on my screen because that person was a bad person vs. someone just got killed down my street because that person is a bad person. You have to separate tv from real life at some point right? We are supposed to be appalled (or if you would like to use the word, offended) by these actions. It is written as such. But don’t go blame the writers for a line a bad person said. Hook was bad. He made a sexual joke that was very “offensive.” Great, he’s a villain. Once they start using those lines as romantic is where I draw the line and agree with you. No doubt. But in that particular moment, I don’t think we were supposed to think of it as romantic, Emma certainly didn’t.
Of course villainous people do villainous things in narrative. Voldemort killed Harry’s parents to drive the narrative but that doesn’t negate that it’s murder.
So this offended you?
Simply by saying “oh he was a villain then” doesn’t cut it. That doesn’t lessen his actions nor mean that he doesn’t have to pay for them in some regard.
This I agree with. If they are trying to redeem a bad character, which in this case they are with Hook, not having him face up to it and atone for it and simply saying he was villain before really doesn’t cut it. Again, I really was just talking about in the moment when these villains say or do these bad things.
ut they do get a pass. Regina killed an entire village, nothing happened. Hook got women drunk as a “tactic’ to lure them back to his ship for hanky-panky (as well as all the other stuff already listed by me, Bar and POM), nothing happened. Hook shot Belle, nothing happened. Rumple killed people in his early days as DO, nothing happened (well, actually you can argue that he lost his son because of his actions, so there’s a recompense there.). The villains on this show get a complete pass except for the seasonal arc ones and they usually die because their arc is over. I think we’re using offended in the wrong sense here. Yes, villains do bad things, but I’m allowed to find those actions reprehensible and horrifying. You’re basically saying that it’s okay that they do these things and get that free pass (which they do get on this show) because “villains.”
right, let me clarify here. Whether they ever have to atone for their actions is entirely separate from what I’m saying. I’m simply saying in the moment, when these bad guys do or say these bad things, I’m not offended. If you are offended by the writers for not addressing these actions later on (Like Regina killing a village, and Hook shooting Belle, etc) then that is totally valid. I just meant in the moment when they are doing these things, it doesn’t bother me. Not addressing the repercussions of that, especially if they try and redeem the character, absolutely is annoying and sure, maybe offensive. But yes, when you are writing a villain type of character, it is ok for them to do bad things, otherwise they would not be a villain. Like how would you write a villain in a story if they can’t do bad things?
