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I know of several people from GA that when they saw those scenes and me and some other friends told them that appears that she was in love with Aurora, these GA people were shocked bc they didn’t got that vibe, they got the vibe that Mulan was in love with Philip but was conflicted bc she saw Aurora as a friend, they didn’t get any Mulan is lesbian vibe at all.
Anyone who watched that scene with Aurora and Mulan, who says that it wasn’t very clear that Mulan wanted to tell Aurora that she loved her, not Phillip, but then had to refrain after learning of Aurora’s pregnancy, thus shedding a tear as she walked away committed to going into exile with Robin Hood’s gang, is kidding themselves in my opinion. Originally, she came off like she liked Phillip and and didn’t know what to do with Aurora, but later on, I think it was very obvious it was Aurora she liked all along. I thought it was clear as day.
[adrotate group="5"]It’s also telling that she’s at her most likeable when she derides the other characters, which have become increasingly unlikeable themselves.
This is certainly why I appreciate Zelena. She calls everyone else out on their crap and she always just tells it like it is.
Are we talking about the thing with Snow and Charming that didn’t happen? I don’t seem to recall any of the baby snatching or transferring darkness you all are talking about.
The stuff with Maleficient. Stealing her baby, putting Emma’s darkness into her (Lilly). Lilly then getting sucked into a portal with Ursula and Cruella to the real world. The author manipulated it by writing what he wanted and what he thought would make a better story. Although as Matthew Paul explained, Snow and Charming were still somehow in control of their actions. Not sure how that’s possible if someone is writing your actions, but ok.
Issac, the author, was a total stand-in for Adam and Eddy (right down to the famous #NoSpoilers line from Isaac in the AU). He was, essentially, a writer who changes the fundamentals of a character to fit the sort of story they want to tell. The finale of S4 was so self-aware that it makes me think that A and E are actually more aware of what they’ve done to their story than I have previously credited them with.
That’s funny. A&E know they have changed the story so much that they created a character to explain why. Genius? Gosh if they did it right, that’s almost the best way to explain your writing flaws of the past. But as you said, it only works if they knew they screwed up. I think A&E know. I’m convinced now haha.
They kidnapped a baby, doomed said baby with Emma’s darkness, sent said baby to another land, and kept lying to Emma to hide their shame in present day Storybrooke.
This was charcter assassination no doubt. But didn’t the author make them do this by changing the story? It’s vague, I know. But that’s sort of what I was going with so that I didn’t feel the arc was total crap. It was the manipulative author behind it all.
It would still make the most sense for the LGBT pairing to include Mulan, given what’s been set up.
I swear if Mulan is not in the LGBT relationship, I’m gonna flip. That season in season 2 was so heart wrenching. It made me genuinely love Mulan. Her motivations finally made sense. To throw that out as if it didn’t happen, just to change the story to fit the narrative, would really piss me off.
I just think a lot of people at the time were talking about Regina crying and the silliness of scenes such as them showing Regina about to cry because she wasn’t invited with the family to diner after Snow and Emma finally got back to or the scene in flashback when Owen ran across the town line and behind Regina Kurt is being arrested by the controlled Graham, later who Regina both murders, and Regina cries and we are supposed to feel sorry for her. I didn’t feel sorry for Regina during either of these moments and those are not the only moments. It is terribly bad writing, in my opinion. I am not alone in that opinion.
I absolutely don’t blame you here. For a few reasons, I had zero problem with the way Regina was written in season 2 and I actually remember feeling really bad for Regina. At the end of the day, I always felt she has been misunderstood. With Owen, you could genuinely tell she loved the companionship and grew fond of the kid. And when you feel alone in the world, and you find something that fills that void, you try to hold onto it for dear life. Unfortunately for Regina, she was not on the path of redemption during the time of the flashback, so she acted selfishly when Owen and his father wouldn’t stay. And it really wasn’t until Owen’s father found out that some weird magic was going on, that she felt she had to stop him from leaving. However, still deep down, she knew she had to at least let Owen go. She could have kept the kid against his will. But at that point, I can’t really blame her for killing the dad. I know, that seems harsh, but she couldn’t let the world find out about Storybrooke.
I also thought this was a good time for the flashback. Season 1 was all about evil Regina. Season 2 was laying down the framework for redemptive Regina. So she’s not just going to pull a 180 and be good. It’s going to tough. Dark magic is a crutch for her. So in the transition, we should see Regina start to do some good things, like treat Henry better and let Emma into his life willingly, and still see some bad habits (which we also see throughout the season). To me, it made sense.
I know a lot of people agree with you on this too. But I’m glad we both agree that this at least was not the shark jump.
A lot of times people who are angry with OUAT and the writers get labeled as bitter shippers and nothing more. Sure, I don’t like that SF didn’t work out but my main complaint has always been that change in tone and thesis. From a show that was fresh by virtue of strong women, female focused, and centered on family love (and thus a deconstruction of most modern day fairy tales) to one that makes women all about the men they are dating/love/married to and centers on romantic love it went from fresh to cliche.
This, is the fairest thing I’ve seen you post haha. No argument from me on this one. There is no doubt that all the themes you listed above, have changed over the course of the show. And it’s super fair to criticize the writers for moving away from these themes for whatever reason that we all feel they have. Can they bring the show back to what made it great even with the loss of Neal? I still think they can. But it is a blind hope at best.
Or maybe Dorothy transported her back using the slippers.
I think this seems like a good guess. I have to think there is still more that Ruby does here though and not just using the silver slippers to bring Ruby to wherever. There must be something she does. Or I’m probably overthinking it, but usually these guys pick their episode titles carefully.
Let’s keep it polite and centered please. This thread has been a nice almost scholarly approach so far but history has shown on this site and the fandom at large that any time ships come up (which is better, who is being appeased, who is not, who needs to “get over” something ect and ect ad infinitum) things get hairy. Let’s stick to what’s working with the narrative, what’s not, where things went awry, what’s a shark jump, what is not a shark jump, themes, and so forth. If you have a claim, back it up.
I thought what we were doing was fine. I’m not saying what ship is better or what not. I honestly could care less. In fact, just seeing you have to throw the warning message up due to shipping stuff seems to prove that people care way too much about the ship wars. But I digress. I assure you, that is not me. I just thought given the topic of shark jumping, and because Bar Farer brought up how he felt A&E switched the story to focus solely on the ships, and it was in that moment that he felt the shark jumping occurred, I thought everything we were talking about was relevant. And I can’t speak for him, but I thought everything was civil. Disagreeing can be civil. It’s not all unicorns and rainbows haha. I have nothing against his opinions and I’m sure he feels the same way. In fact, I enjoy the banter. It shows you care. But if you guys think it’s too much, my bad.
