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because all these characters are part of a kind of “cultural commons” I think many fans feel that they should have a say in what happens to them and how their stories are told. Shipping is just an extreme manifestation of this. And A&E can’t do anything about this. So when they’re saying “we just want to tell stories about these characters” — sure. Fine. But I think what they don’t seem to acknowledge is that these characters aren’t theirs, or Disney’s, or ABC’s — some are hundreds and thousands of years old, and will likely outlive all of these structures.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Unfortunately because we already “knew these characters before the show existed, it leaves open more scrutiny I think. But that’s sort of the door they opened when they dig into our childhood and revamp the stories and characters we loved. It was awesome, but when they make some mistakes, it truly is annoying beyond belief.
They may not believe that their fans are idiots, but they sure as heck hope that we have amnesia or are unconcerned with tiny details or that we will be willing to swallow whatever magic handwave/mcguffin they present for why X is suddenly different than it was a season ago.
I don’t think they hope we have amnesia. I don’t think they hope we are unconcerned with tiny details. It has nothing to do with their relationship with fans. I honestly think that THEY just don’t care enough.Things get changed in the writer’s room a lot. It’s bound to happen with so many writers on a show thta has gone on for 4 1/2 seasons. And I think they just are willing to sacrifice some canon and odd character behavior to move the plot where they want to get it. Not saying this is a good idea. It’s annoying as hell. But I’m sure they know by now that the loyal fans will catch the inconsistencies, but they just don’t think it’s as big of a deal as we think it is. And that’s their fault for being so arrogant. But I don’t think it’s a shot at their fans at all.
[adrotate group="5"]The fact that they claim that they don’t write ‘ships’ is just a lie and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves
Yikes indeed. These writers absolutely have their flaws. And this last season seemed pretty dreadful for many reasons. But I do believe that A&E simply meant they don’t write with the fans and their “ships” in mind. And I’ve already stated how I believe relationships and “ships” are different. I don’t think they meant any harm by it and I don’t think they believe their fans are idiots. I think that is really harsh and they obviously don’t think that. They obviously still care about the characters and the story. I think A&E would like to end the show, but ABC continues to renew it. And I think they are simply running out of material. I think once they set an end date, we will see better writing, I hope.
And I would argue that Regina’s character has developed quite well with her journey from dark to light. The writing was certainly very iffy this past half season, but let’s not throw around silly things like they are lying to us fans because they think we are morons.
But of course some of it is just the writers trying to have their cake (drama) and eat it too (Rumbelle magic).
This is exactly it. They love Rumple when he is power hungry and with magic. They like him as a villain, mainly because Robert Carlyle plays it so well. But they also want to maintain the Beauty and the Beast relationship with Belle. The end result, a complicated, back and forth, contradicting mess with poor old Belle. Unfortunately her character suffers because of what the writers want Rumple to do.
– Will we see Merida and the camelot crew again to wrap their story? Will Merida get justice for her dad’s death?
– Is Maleficent and Lily off the radar or do you have plans to bring them back and finish that arc, specifically finding Lilly’s father?
– Will the Black Fairy ever be introduced or did you guys go a different route?
– Will a “hero” actually die on this show? Haven’t really had one since Neal. And we know Hook isn’t really fully gone yet.
– Are their plans to bring in the Aladdin universe into OUAT? Are you saving this? It’s like the last big one they haven’t really done (I’m not counting Jafar in Wonderland).
– Will we learn what Rumple’s motivation is as far as becoming the dark one again? Did he simply just do it for power or is there an end game here with him?
– Will we ever get to see a Mulan flashback? I love her so much. And I love the actress. Am I the only one hoping that we see the dragon again???
– Is that it for all the sorcer and apprentice and the author stuff? It seemed like quite a big arc considering the book has been a staple for this show since the beginning. I figured the sorcerer is where it all started so I thought this would be the end game. Clearly it isn’t.
– Will Henry have a bigger role as the author?
– Will Regina and Robin have more screen time together actually doing stuff? Will we get to know Robin more in a flashback? This relationship needs serious work.
– What is the over-arcing theme of this season? I thought it would be Dark Swan, but since she no longer is the dark one, I’m not sure anything really carried over after the break here. Last year, it was the sorcerer’s hat, and the looming question of who the sorcerer was, and the author too etc. I just literally have no idea where they are taking this in the back half here.
– Anybosy else just want Belle to admit she likes the dark side of Rumple and just have the two of them do a Bonnie and Clyde thing where she finally starts embracing his power and actually helps him? They just really need to spice up Belle big time instead of her just being pregnant and there.
– Are we done with the mythology of OUAT as far as how everything started? Was that what season 5A was? What else could they possibly show us in flashbacks? One thing I loved about Lost was that how everything started and the motivation behind the men behind curtain (hehe) wasn’t revealed until the very end.
– Will we ever see the repercussions of sharing a heart with someone? I still think that Charming and Snow sharing a heart was designed to kill them off together at the same time (like two other characters from a certain show previously mentioned).
– Is Rumple going dark again setting up the inevitable battle between Rumple and Emma? I have always predicted this would be the end game and we still haven’t even seen them fight, despite the power they both yield.
– Will their be a significant death before the end of the season? I would settle for Granny here…
– Will their be a wedding?
– Will their be a pregnancy? (Belle)
– Can Zelena be redeemed? Personally I think Regina should finally be the one to kill this woman.
– Is Violet off the show now? Will Henry and her see each other again?
– Will we ever see the outside world finding out about magic in Storybrooke? We got Greg and Tamara but they were basically duped. And I would love to see them have to retreat back to the Enchanted Forest where they finally get to live in peace.
I could think of so much more…..but I will stop haha
I think “relationships” is a neutral term. “Ships”, though, are like “morals”. If a person likes one, then it’s right and good and unquestionably the way things ought to be, as far as the believer is concerned. It can’t be allowed to change, because it’s already perfect. From the point of view of someone who doesn’t favour a particular ship, it seems like fanaticism.
I think this is what I was trying to convey as far as the difference here. And this is what I believe A&E meant when they said they don’t create “ships.”
They wrote OQ, with its magical true love pixie dust thus telling the audience up front that this ship was going to sail into Forever Land, so that people would support that ship.
And here, I think we are just going to agree to disagree on this. I think there is simply no way of knowing whether or not A&E wrote the magic pixie dust love thing for Regina in order to tell the audience that you must support this “ship” because it’s going to happen and stay, or whether they simply already did the two people meet and fall in love thing many times. Maybe they wanted something different. Something that included magic. And something that made Tink relevant in season 3A. If anything they were writing it in because they knew they wanted Regina to find the one, didn’t want to spend the time introducing us to that special someone for her (but also didn’t want to rush it), so they gave us this magical true love thing. It was different from what they had done. Not saying it was the right thing to do, or that it was done properly, but I think you might be emphasizing the writers’ “ship” motivation more than simply their “plot” motivation.
There have been plenty of instances in interviews where they’ve said that the end of Snowing would be the end of hope (so they’ll never split them up)
But they aren’t keeping them together because fans have shipped snowing. You even say snowing ain’t that popular anymore. They are keeping them together because they strongly believe in the central theme of the show and two that started it all.
Never mind that it would make Regina the Dark One which is one of the single worst ideas I’ve ever heard, the writing team wanted to bait SQ in that moment so, tossing logic out the window, they had Emma fork over the dagger to Regina
Whether or not they did this to appease SQ shippers, or whether they themselves appreciate the dynamic between these two characters and felt that Regina should be the one, and would be the only one to pull the trigger if need be, we will never really know (although I liked the idea of Regina being the only one who had the stomach to do what was necessary, you are right, it made no friking sense because of what the resulting consequences would be). To me that’s just bad writing, as opposed to trying to appease SQ shippers. But who knows.
Snow and Charming (and Henry for that matter) played next to no active role in trying to save their daughter.
Can’t argue with you on this one. For two parents to be so keen on keeping the darkness away from Emma in Season 4, only to take such a passive role in season 5A once she became the dark one, is just plain dumb. And I get there wasn’t enough time, but I agree that in this instance, they put the CS relationship ahead of original themes and really, common sense. I can’t blame them for wanting to incorporate new material in order to get some backstory on the dark one and to develop the CS relationship more. But I can’t help but think they could have done that without abandoning things, like the charmings being so passive. But again, I’m not certain that they wrote the Hook and Emma stuff simply for CS fans, and took out more Snowing stuff simply because they aren’t as popular anymore (mainly because the writing for them as been atrocious). I genuinely think that they needed to develop Emma’s relationship with Hook, and thought this was the time to do it. They just did it poorly in many respects.
I’ll pass over the fact that Emma’s entire hero journey was reduced to her boyfriend and not her self actualization.
No argument from me on this one either. I think it was very clear that the writers changed their arc halfway through. The first episode was so promising and then it all became about Hook and not the person we all wanted it to be about, and were led to believe it would be about.
I think really, the writers need to go back to what made the show great; character’s emotions and interactions with each other. They have a great cast. The acting is great. But it’s gotten too plot heavy and characters and relationships we used to love are getting lost and muddled. Once an end date is given, I sincerely hope they can slow things down, and just go back to having the characters interact with each other as they should be, not as the plot dictates. That, I know we both can agree on haha. And it is way too much fun to debate ouat when I should be working…..yikes.
Belle’s not looking for happiness! Belle has found inner happiness with herself. She’s not looking. She’s never been someone to look for someone else to fulfill a part of her. She wants that stable partner with somebody…that mirror effect with somebody else. The only [reason] she’s able to continue [her relationship with Mr. Gold] at all is because she’s not looking for someone to make her confident, or make her happy, or make her rich. She’s not looking for something to be fulfilled. She’s looking for a partnership that she can share that with someone.
Does anyone else think this total crap? Either Emilie is playing the character wrong, or the writers are writing the character wrong. This is not what I’ve concluded after seeing Belle for all these seasons.
Still means that they created that relationship in the first place.
Agreed. I think what they meant was that they aren’t shipping anyone. Or should I say, rooting for anyone to stay together. They are writing it as they see fit. Whether they actually are doing that is completely up for debate. Getting rid of Neal, and then inserting Hook into Emma’s love life seemed like something a lot of fans wanted. And then they did it. Coincidence? Likely not.
But as of S5A, Emma and Regina’s entire center is about their romantic pairings, right down to the absurdly stupid scene of Regina willing to die to save Robin, leaving her one and only child abandoned.
I actually would argue that the Regina and Robin story line got zero time this past half season. Regina was just kind of there to help here and there. And Robin did literally nothing. They took a backseat to Emma and Hook for plot reasons. This arc was a lot about Emma and Hook obviously, because well, they both became dark ones. And for CS shippers, this was more development and an extra layer of story for their relationship that they felt they weren’t getting. Their relationship had been stale and with all the problems Season 5A had, it certainly didn’t make Emma’s relationship with Hook stale. But anyway, now that this arc is over, I’m hoping the writers will go back to what Emma and Regina share a bond over, their son Henry. I think we all would like to see more of Henry honestly.
So I guess what I’m trying to say is that because of the plot in season 5A, we had to get a lot of relationship stuff from Emma and Hook. But I don’t feel we got that with Regina and Robin at all. Should they have given us more of Henry, yes. It is what bonded Emma and Regina to begin with. But we did get some good scenes with them clearly caring about their son in Dreamcatcher….
I would also say that in real life, when you find someone you really like and start dating them, everyone else tends to get thrown on the back burner; friends, children, parents. All of a sudden, the world is all about them. So in a way, Regina finally finding her “true” love would take her mind off her son for a bit. Idk, it seems realistic to me. But I fully expect that by the time the show has reached it’s end, the writers will circle back around to beginning themes, including Emma and Regina’s love for their son Henry.
Oh and yes, Regina willing to sacrifice herself for Robin was totally ridiculous on so many levels.
SwanQueen, maybe, since a lot of it is subtextual but they are really going to say that they didn’t create Snowing, Rumbelle, or CS (and more)? That they don’t write for those ships? Did…did they watch the S5A finale?
I think they misspoke here, per usual. I think what they meant was that they don’t write these characters solely with the “ship” they are attached to. As they say in the first answer to the first question, the relationship they are in is just one part of the character they are trying to tell the story of. I think sometimes we as fans tend to over blow and overemphasize different “ships”because it’s a lot of fun to hope for romances we want to see, or think we will see, or simply root for a relationship we are currently seeing. I think A&E just meant that there are many other factors that go into writing a character’s actions and behaviors and we tend to focus a lot on who they are dating the most.
And also, technically they did not “create” the terms “Snowing,” “Rumbelle,” “Swan Queen,” “Swanfire,” “Outlaw Queen,” etc etc etc. These are names we are constantly trying to come up with to please ourselves, and as a result, I think we overemphasize them and people take sides and what not. The writers simply write the character’s lives and if that involves falling in love with someone, then great. They obviously created the “relationship” of Snow and Charming. But they didn’t create the “ship” or the ship names. If that makes any sense…….haha. Why do I feel like I’m always the one trying to defend these silly writers?
and Regina and her mom have an “interesting” reunion, given Cora’s dying words
This I believe is going to be a heartfelt reunion, and if anything, Cora will try and help Regina I suspect. Because Cora never kept her heart in her body, she never could truly love her daughter like she should have. We saw her dying words and her face when she looked upon her daughter for the first time with her heart inside her…….Regina will finally be able to spend some time with the mother she never got and vice versa. This I am looking forward to seeing, assuming that’s what happens.
all while Hades (Greg Germann) lords over his domain, harboring an “important,” non-familial tie to someone.
I really hope this is not super dragged out. Zelena’s evil plan was so dragged out in season 3B and I think it dragged down the story a bit. I will not be pleased if Hades just appears every once in awhile, delivers some cryptic lines that won’t make sense until the finale, and A&E don’t let us in on what he’s thinking or what his plan is until the “important non-familial tied” person is ready for their episode.
