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I recall you not applauding them for bringing in Black Fairy as Rumple’s mother. It was done fine in the show but I thought, and I could be wrong, that you felt they only brought Black Fairy in bc it’s something the fandom wanted and since the fans wanted Rumple’s mother, they decided to make it the same person and you did not like that, at least I thought.
[adrotate group="5"]And by no means am I calling you out or anything. It was just annoying that I couldn’t post something on there bc literally nobody posts anything in the CS thread. It gets more ignored than Greg on the Brady Bunch.
Okay, I’m gonna redirect the conversation back to SF/Neal
And by the way, I post on this thread bc no one on here posts in the captain swan thread. So I can’t discuss Emma and Hook’s relationship with anyone. Also for the record, if there is no swearing and two people are going back and forth in a thread, I don’t think the thread should be pulled. In the recent hot seat thread, I was reading what two people were discussing back and forth and it was quite informative for me bc I can never remember which episodes had what in them and these two people were specifically citing episodes and countering each other’s arguments with actual facts. And then I went to post on it and it wouldn’t let me bc you pulled the thread bc the language got snarky and combative. But honestly, in a really heated debate about something people are passionate about, sometimes people are going to get a little combative. But if both parties don’t feel like they are being attacked and are fine with it, I don’t think it should be pulled. And the topic was still somewhat relevant to the hot seat article. I don’t see you pulling the SF thread if things get too heated and drift off course. You just change the topic of conversation…..just saying.
Yeah, this is the last shot to reveal Blue Fairy as Sneaky Fairy. Honestly if they do it well, I would applaud the heck out of it. I might even squeal in delight because it’s been a theory of mine for so long that Blue is shady as heck.
I feel like you, or perhaps it was many other people but not you, said that if they did decide to reveal Sneaky Fairy it would only be because they are appeasing the fandom, just like why they brought in Black Fairy at all. Many on here say they bring in storylines simply bc it’s what the fans want. Is this not another case of that? Would you really think they had planned Blue to be sneaky this whole time or would you think that they just decided to do it this season? And you would give them props for that?
And like you said there are many of us who do say nice things about CS/Hook when they happen but you act as if it’s only one or two of us and that’s not fair. Several very pro-SFers have stated just within the last few pages that Hook doesn’t bother them as much/is more tolerable/ect than he used to be. Don’t paint us all with one brush please
Well yeah, I know it’s not everyone. But really I’ve only seen two maybe three people say that Hook doesn’t bother them anymore. Many still drudge up the past and just can’t see what’s happening right in front of them it seems. Many people on here forget that Hook was actually a good person once, just like Rumple, just like Regina. He was a noble captain with “good form.” It wasn’t until his brother Liam died that he took a dark turn. Just like Rumple when he obtained the DO powers and his son left him, just like Regina when Snow told her secret and Cora killed Daniel. Hook is no different. And Hook did change on the inside. He chose to to change to try and win Emma over. Sometimes all it takes is a little motivation to bring someone back to the straight and narrow. So love isn’t enough to change someone as someone else said earlier, but Hook changing his behavior to be with Emma bc he loved her is. And I do think that is a powerful message.
Plus this forum is so toxic. It’s quite a shame that Daniel spends every podcast talking about coming to the forum and discussing things. Maybe take a gander at your own forum before trying to convince people to post here, maybe there’s a reason why this site is so dead, aside from haters of the show and CS.
Yeah, Daniel is incredibly balanced, poised, and doesn’t seem to pick sides in shipping wars etc. which I really appreciate. And as a result, his opinions come off as much more valid and with less inherent bias. Really do love listening to him. But yeah, I wonder if he knows how pro SF the forums truly are and how anti-Hook, anti-Emma, and anti-CS they are too.
Hook has absolutely changed, 100%, and people are so pressed they choose to ignore all the good he’s done and focus on the very small bad. Especially compared to other villains that get tons of chances.
Yeah, to me, and this is where many people on here come off as bias and bitter, and holding a grudge, I completely agree that Hook has changed. Does he still make some mistakes like deciding to cover up his lie this season? Sure. But everyone makes mistakes. It is so clear as day though that he’s not the same person and I maintain that the fact Emma was able to bring the goodness out of him and turn his life around is an incredible story. Sometimes people just need something to fight for in order to get back to the straight and narrow. Hook found that in Emma and I think that’s not only realistic, but rather moving. And yes, as someone pointed out in the other forum, change needs to happen on the inside first (like with Regina). Love can’t just fix it. That is true, but I think Hook did change on the inside. He made a decision to be a different man, a better man. His motivation was to be with Emma, to prove to her that he can be that guy for her. And people treat Hook as if he was always a bad guy in the past. No, he actually was a noble captain once with good form who really started down the rocky path after his brother Liam died. Death does that to people. And Emma (love) brought him back. I think it’s beautiful.
They will always fight for one another, neither of them will ever abandon the other.
Mirrors Snowing. I don;t recall anyone ever feeling that Snowing only cared about each other and were selfish. Let’s see what everyone think when Hook and Emma help in the battle against the Black Fairy.
And several people on here are very much bitter about that being confirmed in the first place.
Yeah, I unfortunately agree with you.
Absolutely they are happy, just look at those smiles during the re-proposal. Anyone whom says Emma is not happy is just simply a bitter person with an agenda. Hook makes her happy and she makes him as well.
I also agree with this and it bugs me when others on here say they aren’t happy. Have they even looked at them? They would do anything for each other.
loved everything about the re-proposal, including the fact that Emma finally got told by Hook that he will always, always stay by her side. Which Emma has never had somebody like that, so it’s very good she has someone like that now.
I also did as well. Thought it was great.
I thought Emma and Hook were endgame from 2×06 onward, and I was right. And yes that included marriage. Their storyline was crystal clear. Neal represented the past, and Killian the future. Glad I as did many many others read it right.
What’s funny is I also predicted this. Emma had so much chemistry with Hook. It started out as this weird hatred, but I thought the writers did an incredible job of writing their dynamic early on. And personally, I always thought Neal was a little boring. I liked him with Emma don’t get me wrong, but I always felt there was a strong force between Killian and Emma. And I could tell pretty early on that she was going to end up with him, which meant that he had to turn his life around. I did not think they were going to kill Neal though. That was a surprise.
Side note about people criticizing Emma’s wardrobe in the episode. She was wearing a PETER PAN collar, in an episode where Captain Hook was in Neverland trying to get back to her with the assistance of Tiger Lily another Peter Pan character. If people didn’t get that the reason she wore that had to do with the many references to NVL that’s on them. But people will find any reason to hate on Emma, including her wardrobe she wears now which everyone has said has to do with her walls being down.
Ehh, I actually thought it looks quite weird myself. It felt like an odd choice since she never wears anything like that. But yeah, it’s a shame that all the CS fans were pushed away on here. It would make things less one-sided and everything would come off less bitter and angry. The forums on here can be quite depressing. I mean I know the show isn’t perfect. But there are still plenty of good things and everyone should be pumped for this wedding! But no one is, bc no one on here supports it.
the only thing he and I have ever agreed on is that Edward Nygma on Gotham is awesome.
Well yeah, he is awesome! And I will say this. I know you guys criticize all ships on here. However, there is a reason that all CS fans left. And it’s simple. It’s because you usually have nothing good to say about the CS ship. Sure, you critique other ships, but many times you have good things to say about them as well. You almost never have anything good to say about the CS relationship. And I’m sorry, but the relationship isn’t all that bad, certainly not as awful as you guys paint it out to be. So if all CS fans see on here is complete negativity toward a relationship they love, then they are going to leave bc that naturally ruins the show for them. And I’m not saying everyone in these forums never has anything good to say about the CS relationship. I’ve seen occasional comments that support it when it’s deserved. But many people on here have nothing nice to say and it comes off as if these two characters can’t do anything right to get you to buy into or at least kind of support their relationship and these characters being “happy.” And, since I see a lot of it in this particular SF thread, where you continue to praise the show’s earlier seasons and how it used to be good when Neal was with Emma and how now the show isn’t good anymore etc, it comes off like you just will never even consider liking CS’s relationship bc Hook just isn’t Neal. And I’m sure that is not the intention, but boy does it come off like that. So again, while you say that you critique all ships and that you still welcome CS fans, they likely don’t feel welcome bc you’re overwhelming love for SF has subconsciously made you harsher on CS, and in my opinion, on Hook. To me, these characters can’t do anything right anymore in many of your eyes. Just something to chew on…
But what you’re saying is that a strong female is someone who turns a bad guy into a good guy which is in effect turning that strong female into just an object or vessel for a man’s redemption. That is not the definition of a strong female and it’s a very specific kind of misogyny.
But would you say that if Emma was Emmett. And he turned around a girl who was a druggie in her past? Emma was already a strong female character before she met Hook. So I don’t believe you can just say that OUAT’s message is that a strong female character is someone who turns bad men into good men. In this case, Emma was Hook’s vessel, sure. She was what he needed to turn his life around. But why is that a bad thing? I’d feel the same way if the genders were reversed. So again, I’m not saying that a strong female IS someone who turns a bad guy into a good guy. I’m saying that Emma WAS ALREADY a strong female character, and her strength has helped many people, but specifically Hook.
By your logic, a woman can never turn a man’s life around without making them look like an object just to get the man to where he needs to be in life. But if that’s your view, then you have to be equally annoyed if Emma was a man and Hook was a girl. Feminism is about equality right? So it works both ways. And I’m sorry, but regardless of gender, if someone is able to become a better person and be the person they always should have been bc someone else helped them turn it around, that is a great message and that is a message that springs hope in people who made me in a bad point in their life. To muck that message up with female gender dynamics just seems forced to me. Again, just my opinion.
So Emma’s miserable when Hook is out of her sight and happy when she can see him? That is not an encouraging sign.
Huh? So you’re not supposed to miss your significant other when they are away? And you aren’t supposed to be happy when you see them? What on earth are you smoking? I get that Emma seems to prioritize Hook over everybody else now, but the statement you just said makes absolutely zero sense. She doesn’t depend on Hook for her happiness. But he certainly helps with it. And when he’s missing, that’s a part of her happiness missing.
She can feel however the writers want her to feel. But is this happiness problematic and symptomatic of disturbing trends in media, Hollywood, culture and gender Dynamics? Yup.
I just think you’re reaching a bit. I see nothing wrong with a strong female woman falling in love with a guy who has a bad past but Emma, being the good person she is, turns his life around. I mean, Hook would still be bad Hook if he never met Emma. That in and of itself is great story! Love can change people’s lives around! And sure, Hook used to act like he was going to “get her” and that she will “want” to be with him someday. But again, that Hook does not exist anymore. She turned him around and that’s the story. And yes, while she depends too much on him, and their lies and deceit are somewhat of a concern, it’s not out of the ordinary for relationships that have issues like that and I just don’t feel like ouat is sending a bad message by having her be together with Hook. If Hook was still the same guy back in season 2, then yes, that would be problematic. But I just think some of you guys are picking too hard on the relationship as it pertains to the overall message the show is portraying. Her relationship with Neal was very different and perhaps came with less problems. But the struggle Emma and Hook have had to go through could be construed as more realistic. No relationship is perfect, especially if you end up loving a guy with a troubled past. But she has managed to turn him around (although he did a lot of his progress on his own), integrate him into storybrooke and her family, and has gotten her blessing from everyone close to her. Considering this is the same guy who has left Emma for death and she has done the same (ehem beanstalk), the fact that they are now engaged is a crazy story and one that I think you condemn too much instead of praise the show’s message that anybody can change if they have the right motivation.
Figured I’d post something in here and see if we can create some balance in the force on these forums. Bc good lord it needs it.
Now, who thinks Hook has legitimately changed? And is he worthy of Emma? Is Emma worthy of Hook? Do you think they truly love each other? Are they happy? Has the show conveyed well enough that they are happy? Clearly these two have some lying and trust issues. How do we feel now that these two are officially engaged and Hook got to redo his proposal without Emma interrupting him? Did you ever think Emma would be getting married to Hook when she first met him in the Enchanted Forest? My how far they have come.
