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Yeah they really are building up the black fairy to be the biggest villain on the show. I hope they deliver.
[adrotate group="5"]And if the characters don’t know, then we as the audience likely won’t know. So that’s interesting. They sort of did that with Zelena in her arc in season 3. We knew she wanted Snowing’s baby but we didn’t know why. But the difference is that the Zelena arc was for entire half season. As a result, episodes got old and I remember feeling frustrated not knowing Zelena’s intentions and people going around not even knowing who she was. But in this case, Black Fairy is coming in much later in the season so keeping her motivations secret could be compelling, especially given it could set us up for the series finale.
’m not saying he hasn’t changed 100% full stop. But it comes back to that choice and what it says about him as a character–when push came to shove he chose the wrong path, made a really bad choice, a choice that was selfishly motivated (if also sympathetic) without consideration to others. Redemption isn’t supposed to be easy, it’s supposed to be hard. And he took the easy (read: not fully redeemed) route. If apologizing to Belle and offering her a safe haven was 1 step forward, choosing to not listen to two sets of advice, and burn his memories without confessing to Charming was 1 step back. And that’s why I think it’s helpful to compare him to Regina in this episode. Her not killing the EQ, offering the EQ a chance to meet with Henry, and letting Snow forgive the EQ is a series of good choices–several steps forward, if you will. Regina could have taken the easy path by killing the EQ but she didn’t. Instead she did the harder thing which was accept that side and offer love and hope.
Oh I completely agree. Hook is not on Regina’s level. Never said they were. But to say Hook hasn’t changed at all seems asinine to me. I know that wasn’t you who said that. But yes, Hook still has a ways to go. What’s unfortunate is that Regina, who killed a bazillion people in her past, never had to confront all of them in the UW. The writers sort of let Regina off the hook there (pun not intended). Regina has had almost 5 seasons to repair wounds and go down the process of redemption. Unfortunately Hook has not had as long of a time and since the show is ending soon, his redemption is never going to be as well done as Regina’s. I have to think if we had another year or two, they wouldn’t feel rushed to do a proposal and Hook would have more time on screen to redeem himself in a more organic and natural way.
can sympathize with a person and still think they are at fault for their actions and have character flaws to work out.
Of course. But can you sympathize with a person who hasn’t changed from his pirate ways?
YES! Finally someone else who sides with me! Some good stuff here. Let’s see if I can pull apart some things.
Hook has not changed.
So back when he was a legit pirate, Hook would have given Belle a place to stay on his ship without the intention of sleeping with her and would have saved her life and Rumple’s, the man he hated? What about not letting Charming kill King George? You think he would have intervened in the past? No way. He absolutely would not have done any of those things. That’s the definition of change. Does he still do things that are morally gray, yup. But he has definitely changed. Not seeing that is pretty thick.
And barely, because yesterday he was hardly there because he was going to leave a woman who was abandoned as a child and travel to another realm without saying anything.
But he didn’t. He wasn’t going to leave. It’s literally the exact opposite of the dreamcatcher. He was going to do that but wasn’t going to leave on the ship. You crucify him for thinking, and then making the wrong decision but then crucify him again when he thinks and then makes the right decision? Like, come on. The guy can’t win in your eyes. Your preconceived opinions regarding Hook and his past bad behaviors seems to not let you critique him fairly in the present.
Hook did intervene with Belle, but he must have been right there. It is just the barest level of humanity to me. It is not some great deed. He stepped in to stop squirrelly little Jekyll who was no real danger to Hook.
And again, what about when he saved Henry? Was Liam not a legitimate threat too? And you can’t say that he only saved Henry bc he’s Emma’s son. Everyone is frikin related on this show. He has saved Belle, Rumple, Henry, Charming from committing murder when both he and Charming thought King George killed his father….what else does he have to do to prove he has at least changed a little for you? Again, he sometimes makes mistakes but people change and still make mistakes all the time.
Firstly, Hook should get total props for helping Belle. I’m not talking about saving her from Jekyll (that’s just basic human decency), I’m talking about him offering Belle a place to stay after she left Rumple. The genuine apology was a welcome bonus but he stepped up to help Belle out especially when Emma didn’t give a damn to try and assist Belle in any way. Belle went to Granny’s to ask for a room and Emma’s response was basically “You don’t want to stay here, it’s awful”. That was it. So not only did Emma disrespect Granny by speaking ill of her business but she also didn’t offer Belle any alternative place to stay. It was Hook who actually did the decent thing and provided Belle with some accommodation when she had no where else to go.
Thank you. For the love of God, thank you.
Secondly, in regards to Hook trying to burn the memory of killing Charming’s father rather than tell Emma, I don’t hold it against him. It wasn’t the right thing to do but it makes sense. He’d summoned up the courage (dutch courage) to tell her the truth and before he gets the chance, she catches him off guard with the ring. There is a reason why you’re supposed to listen and give people a chance to talk when they are trying to disclose something, it’s because that might be the only chance they do. It takes a lot of courage to admit something, to the point it could literally be a “now or never” situation. Hook got drunk because he needed to, in order to have the courage to tell Emma about what he did, but then then because she jumped him with the ring, the moment was gone and Hook then didn’t have the courage. He knows he should tell her the truth, he’s been told he should tell her the truth, but that doesn’t make doing so any easier. Hook went to the next logical solution, if he couldn’t tell Emma then he’d get rid of the memory all together. It wasn’t right but I can see why he did it.
Yes. Why does Hook get zero points for trying to come clean before he was interrupted by Emma? Yes, he regressed and wasn’t going to tell her, but can’t you guys empathize with his situation a little? Getting something that huge off your chest has to be so hard to do. And he clearly wanted to do the right thing. It’s not like he immediately went to the dreamcatcher and erased his memories. He thought on it for days, then tried to tell Emma. Sought advice from like a bunch of people. Haven’t you ever had a horrible secret you felt you needed to tell somebody but you were so afraid they would judge you and think differently of you, and since you were afraid to lose them, you decided not to tell them….until it finally eats you alive and you realize you have to tell them? That’s what this is! I know Daniel can empathize with Hook.
Is it sympathetic? Sure.
And do we really think we would sympathize with Hook if he hadn’t changed as person, even just a little?
Charming is the one who knew him and had an emotional connection to him. Emma has never seen him, never spoken to him, and the fact she can recognize him in the memory is mind boggling. Charming should be upset Hook murdered him. Emma should be upset Hook would rather hide the truth than be real with her. The murder is bad but keeping the secret is worse. From Emma’s perspective.
Yeah I actually agree with this. I thought Emma’s behavior was justified in this scene. She didn’t even know her grandfather. She should be more upset about Hook keeping it from her. And based on all the lies both have told, it made sense for her to give him back the ring.
I don’t give Hook any special points for helping Belle not be murdered on his ship. I don’t think that what Hook did there was all that special or noteworthy. It is certainly not some show of a great change within him. If anything his behavior just seemed bizarre and out of character as does Belle’s. Especially when in the last episode he is trying to erase and burn his memories because he can get away with it then run off without saying anything.
RG, see. And how can you say there wasn’t a change within him? He did not treat Belle very well like a season before that and he spent his whole life trying to kill Rumple. But instead here, he saves both of them. Putting Belle and Rumple and the town first over himself and sacrificing his life isn’t a change for him? He literally was the most selfish person ever. He has left people in danger while he scurries away countless times in the past. How can you say this was not noteworthy? You’re coming off as a bitter anti-Hook fan. Give the guy props when he does something worthwhile. Belle and Rumple would be dead without him.
Also, Hook must have been pretty close to get to his ship anyways and then he was fighting to protect himself from Jekyll. It just doesn’t feel like some great deed. Hook didn’t have to sacrifice anything to protect Belle except for the time it took him to walk over to his ship. When Hook actually has something to lose, like Emma, which it is always Emma, then he does the thing that will best protect himself from losing her even if it hurts her or is just evil.
He had to sacrifice himself and there was a good chance he could possibly die! Of course he had something to lose. He could have lost his life. Are you insane? And it was for someone he barely interacted with. Oh, and it’s the wife of a guy he absolutely hates. And you say Regina thinks about Henry when she makes good choices, someone she loves. Hook thinks of Emma. Someone he loves. What’s the difference?
Regina had a choice. The thing that would have probably been the best to protect herself would be to kill the Evil Queen. No one would have known. The Evil Queen would no longer be a danger. Regina could have kept the light in her heart and not had to share in the darkness with the Evil Queen. She could have hidden what happened and no one would have known, but she didn’t do that. She thought about the Evil Queen as a person. She thought about wish Robin. She thought about Henry.
Hook had a choice. He could have just let it happen. Just think about what you just compared. Regina could have killed the Evil Queen, someone she has loathed (herself) for her entire life. But she didn’t. What about Hook? He spent nearly his entire life trying to get revenge on Rumple by skinning himself a crocodile. And in that moment on the boat, he could have let that happen. He could have let Belle die and who knows what Hyde would have done to Rumple but if I recall he threatened to kill him in that scene. Hook could have watched it all happen and done nothing and Rumple would have died. But instead, he made the right choice, just like Regina not killing the EQ, and stepped in, saved Belle, put his life on the line, saved Rumple, and saved the town by killing both Jekyll and Hyde. And you don’t give him props for that? But you give Regina props for not killing the EQ? This is the kind of double standard that I was talking about. Blows my mind.
I thought Lana would stick around too. It doesn’t seem like she has been interested in doing different projects though she has talked about opening a targeted producing group or something like that. I have hard time seeing her find work, same with Colin. I just think there are certain actors that are going to be in this show and that is it and they are two of them, so they would want to stay as long as possible.
I highly doubt Lana will have any trouble finding work. Her and Bobby are the two best actors on the show. Lana has been in LOST! haha
RG, no doubt I remember after the episode aired that people on here gave him props. What I meant was that since then, it seems people have forgotten about it bc no one ever mentions that when they talk about how Hook only does good things when they directly affect Emma. And then I bring it up, and then no one acknowledges it. People conveniently forget.
And my golly is that a theory……and I actually think it makes total sense.
He needs to do the right thing because it is the right thing and not because Emma might be upset and not because he got caught or Henry might tell or any of that.
I think we are going to see that at the conclusion of this show. Bc that is one thing that he keeps failing on. Sure we saw him help Belle and save her life. Which apparently I’m the only one on here that gives him props for that. He didn’t have to risk his life for her. And basically for Rumple who was powerless. But other than that, and his actions to help Charming find out about his father, which were somewhat motivated by getting Charming’s approval and blessing to propose to Emma, he has mostly done good things to appease Emma, but not necessarily realizing he should do them bc it is unequivocally the right thing to do, like the constant good decisions Regina has made countless times in her redemption arc. I’d like to see him make that connection and see the difference by the end of the season. And I think we will. I hope we will.
