Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
I think that perhaps opening a new thread “was Baelfire OOC?” would have been more welcomed. Think about if there had been a thread “positive things about OUAT” and I would have posted negative things, it would not have been welcomed.
Yup, fair point. But then the thread shouldn’t be called Emma + Bealfire = Swanfire. It should be called, “Only post positive things about Neal, negative things about Hook, and how the show hasn’t written Neal right since they killed him off.” Then I would stay away from any counter opinions. But as far as I know, this thread is generally about Neal/Baelfire and Emma. At least that is what the thread title suggests. So me posting why I felt he was not necessarily OOC should not be unwelcome. And for the most part, it wasn’t. Again, I like a good debate where people can back up things they say etc. It was Rainbow that got under my skin.
[adrotate group="5"]Also, @darkonederie, i get that you love the show and so is difficult for you to admit the show flaws, but there are flaws, and when even fans that dislike Neal say is OOC and was a retcon that says something about the episode, is not just us that liked Nealfire, there are also other fans that disliked that character saying the same thing and just because the show showed it, doesn`t mean that we have to go along with and say , oh no big deal, move along, and i have to say that besides this retcon, there were other bad things in this epi, from Timelines that were wrong, and so on, the message also for a show to see a kid using a dagger to ask someone to kill another person was bad, btw others messages they showed in this episode.
Ahh, I thought we could get through this without calling people out in a negative way. But alas….I certainly know the show’s flaws. I don’t find it difficult to admit them. I do however find it difficult to post in a forum that has more negativity than Donald Trump’s presidential campaign. But that’s neither here nor there.
I don’t care if other fans who didn’t like Nealfire say it was OOC. Why would I care about that? I’m telling you what I think. And once again, you’re bringing a ship into the conversation. I also never said it was no big deal, and to move along. I said I get why fans of Neal are annoyed bc it changed the entire dynamic of Rumple and Bae. All I have said was that I thought it was in character bc of the memory potion. I didn’t agree with the memory potion and that it should just wipe away any darkness Bae would have had, but that is what the show is asking us to believe so that’s what I’m going with.
Can you explain specifically how the timeline was wrong? Can you explain specifically a flashback before this episode where Bae was extremely against magic.
Also as a side note, I get that some people want a safe haven for this thread to express their annoyances with the SF dynamic, but you should also be willing to engage with others who have differing opinions. At times, people aren’t being very inclusive. Looking at you, Rainbow. Just because I had a different opinion than yours, you felt the need to call me out and put words in my mouth.
I enjoy debating things with people. It’s why I still post on this specific thread. But my goodness….
No, a nasty person indeed. But wouldn’t you say that Bae was more against it as he got older? That he actually judged his father and deemed him a bad person bc of his crutch to use magic. In this flashback, we haven’t gotten to that point yet. Here, Rumple’s magic is still new and Bae feels he doesn’t need it. But he doesn’t think Rumple is a bad father or not a good person bc he’s having a hard time giving it up. He’s not saying things like, “I hate you.” I’m not sure it’s really splitting hairs. I think the time frame matters here bc people’s opinions evolve. And Bae’s opinion of magic gets progressively more negative. We just didn’t realize that it was bc of something Bae did, that made Rumple reset him that made Bae’s opinion of magic all the more negative. And I get that’s annoying. But OOC? Ehh.
And as far as the dark hook nonsense goes, I think this all but confirms that not having a memory of something means you aren’t going to be dark, even if it is inside you. I’m not saying AI agree with it, but that is what the show is saying here. So isn’t Bae’s reset just being consistent with what Hook went through as the DO?
I also don’t think its fits with the previously established way the dagger works and that the memory potion is a poor excuse/MacGuffin. It’s shoddy writing all around. It also recasts the Rumple/Bae dynamic quite a bit, IMO. Rumple walked away from his darker instincts by not killing Beowulf. He proved that he had it in him to fight the call of darkness. And then Bae pushed him over the edge both by ordering him to kill Beowulf and needing to be saved from the dagger’s power. Again, very in line with Rumple’s character, not so much with Bae’s.
Right, but again, the character moving forward wasn’t changed bc of the reset memory potion. So are you saying that in THAT moment, it was OOC for Bae to do that? Had the show established when Bae was younger that he was vehemently as against magic as he was as he got older? We saw in this flashback that he didn’t think Rumple needed it, but he wasn’t as emphatic about it as he was as he got older. He just thought his father didn’t need it as opposed to thinking his father was a bad person bc he used it. So did Bae establish this hatred for magic and a complete unwillingness to be tempted or entertain the idea of using magic before this flashback? Was he super super against it to the point that he wouldn’t use it even if he felt Beowulf was a danger to keep alive? I’m not sure that had been established in Bae’s character yet and we know the future Bae character isn’t affected bc of the reset. So I still don’t get that it’s OOC unless it was shown that Bae vehemently was against it when he was younger before this flashback occurred and therefore would never have been tempted to use it. Wasn’t this the first time he had magic to wield in the first place? Wouldn’t it be conceivable that someone who is against something without trying it, could be more accepting of it, or susceptible once they finally do? It would make some sense if this was his first taste of wielding magic as a child to potentially make a mistake.
In regards to the Rumple-Bae dynamic in the future, yup it definitely changes things. That is true. You can definitely say that Bae may have caused Rumple to go back down a dark path that he showed he was clearly capable of moving away from. So yup, that changed. But that’s not my argument. My argument is whether or not it was OOC and to me, it seems people are looking at older Bae and how he felt about magic and saying that Bae would never have done this. But at that time in Bae’s life, Rumple being the DO was relatively brand new and he had never even really seen magic or at least been directly in contact with it. And to my knowledge, wasn’t he only vehemently against it as he got older later on…as we know, his mild distaste for it turned into hatred mainly bc of him thinking Rumple killed Beowulf.
Am I completely off base here? Again, if you can establish that there was flashback before this time that showed Bae really really against magic (not just telling Rumple that you don’t need it), then yup, OOC. Otherwise I just don’t think I agree.
So Rumple giving him a memory spell after Bae acted OOC didn’t save any face at all for you guys? Isn’t that the definition of why it wasn’t OOC? Now we know that at one time, Bae was tempted and used the dagger to kill someone whom he deemed a threat to him and his father. But we also know that Rumple took the blame and Bae went on after that to hate magic….which we saw. We saw that Bae. So can someone please tell me how this was OOC? Without the memory spell it is. I get that. Bc the rest of Bae’s life he goes out not liking magic and would never succumb to it so it would make zero sense if he remembered this as a child. But if the show is going to do this to put Rumple in a better light, then what’s wrong with Bae doing this one thing, Rumple fixing it so he doesn’t remember it, and Bae going on to be the Bae we saw throughout the show? You still get the Bae we knew, but now they created a wrinkle to show that Rumple saved his son from potentially being dark. It was Rumple’s actions that gave you guys the Bae you fell in love with. So I don’t get how this was OOC. And I get that it’s annoying that Bae would ever even be tempted by magic like that, but kids make mistakes. And it doesn’t mean it shattered his character. I also get that a memory spell probably shouldn’t wipe someone clean of darkness just bc they forget it, but that’s what they are going with so that’s what I have to go with too. And if that’s true, then Bae was reset before he used the dagger to the Bae we all remember and loved. So again, how is any one of this OOC with what we see in the future if Rumple wiped him clean?
Alas, what Rumple won’t do for his son……he hid this from Bae so he never would know what he did. He saved him in a sense and crushed his relationship with his son just so Bae could have a better life. They are setting us up for a Rumple death.
As far as I remember, the Shears of Destiny cut off one’s fate and specifically, their power as the Savior. Perhaps they can be used on the EQ to permanently “cut” her from Regina.
On people who are already impure of heart, like Cora (in this case, already corrupt and literally heartless). But we’ve never seen it exert any measure of influence to this radical extent on someone who was pure/good/light whatever.
It’s true. But someone may have to remind me of the storyline with Snowing doing bad things to Maleficent in order to protect Emma. I know it’s not the dagger, but the whole point of that arc was that even good people make mistakes when tempted by darkness….or at least that’s how I remembered it.
But other than that, you do have a point. Bc with Hook, he still had some darkness in him buried down and the darkness brought that out. But Bae did not have that. I’m trying to remember if other characters had this happen to them. Not necessarily the dagger, but darkness in general. Zelena? I’m foggy on her origin story for some reason. The Snow Queen? What turned her evil again? did she get tempted by the darkness? Bc she was actually a good person deep down and sacrificed herself. She just wanted her sister’s approval if my memory sevres me correctly. Ursula? Cruella? Once she obtained the power to control animals, she used that power for evil. But remember evil is not born, it is made. So evil and power influences others. The author? Once he got the power, he abused it. Even Emma got a taste when she almost killed Lily in the street. So for me, the darkness controlling even the nicest of boys for just one second to make one bad decision, makes some sense to me.
Oh and may I say……it’s interesting the memory spell did not work on Gideon. So the Black Fairy did what exactly to prevent him from being affect by that? We really need their flashback sooner rather than later.
I actually think they do it to make Rumple look good and that’s because RC is leaving, they want his ending to be positive (whether it is by sacrificing himself like 311 or HEA with Belle and their child). They try to fix 3 seasons of assassinating Rumple’s character (and yes that was because they wanted Hook to look good in comparison) by assassinating Baelfire’s.
Yup this. And I like Rumple so I’m ok with it.
“My son would never try to use me”
That’s a loaded statement though. If Baelfire was manipulated by the darkness of the dagger, which has shown it’s influence before, it’s hard to say that it was Baelfire’s fault, or even that Rumple was wrong for saying that about his son.
