Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
This looks EPIC and amazing. HOWEVER, they can’t kill each other hahaha. Please don’t retcon anything. Please don’t retcon anything. Either go off with Evil Robin or go back into Regina. Those are the only two scenarios I will be ok with. If I get a magical macguffin…I swear to God.
[adrotate group="5"]Yes, this. If they actually wanted to retcon the dagger into the One Ring, then fine — but they’d need to do a lot more work to make it plausible. Along the same lines, if the dagger is such a corrupting influence (presumably once’s you’ve held it and ordered a Dark One around with it), then how come Gideon just hands it back, no questions asked? Wouldn’t the logical reaction be “ooh, I got me a Dark One, lets go take out the Black Fairy now”? And why would Rumple give it out to Bae in the first place if it has such a horrible effect (unless, of course, he doesn’t know)? They do have material to work with, both in-universe and in terms of folkloric tropes if they wanted to suggest that this sort of power is both literally and figuratively corrupting. It certainly would explain why no one tried to order the Dark One out of commission, and locked the dagger away — which, of course, has a lot of precedents in all sorts of fairy tales. They could have done such an interesting speculation on why the proverbial genie always ends up imprisoned in some lamp somewhere: that eventually someone somewhere grows a brain and realizes that this kind of power is bad news for everyone. But my point is that if we all have to collectively do this much work to make this whole thing make any sense at all, they’re doing it wrong.
It is odd that Gideon was not seemingly affected by holding the dagger. But perhaps holding the dagger doesn’t mean you want to be the DO or control the DO. Maybe it just means you want to continue lusting for dark magic. So for him, it’s killing the Savior. Once he took it from Rumple, his willingness to still do that and go to the blue fairy to get her blood increased. And there have been others who controlled the dagger or became the DO who all of a sudden, turned into a crazy person. Hook, Cora (although she was a psycho and sort of always wanted more power), Emma a little, Rumple obviously, Arthur, and now Baelfire. And as you say, they have material to work with here. But they probably need to flesh out the control the dagger and the darkness can have on someone more consistently, if that is the way they are going with this.
Oh man this is quite a dilemma. I think if you believe in the power of darkness and the power the dagger has on people, then this makes more sense. Especially for a young boy. In the beginning of the episode, and really throughout, Baelfire kept telling Rumple that he didn’t need the magic. It wasn’t until he started holding the dagger that he changed. So I get people who say that Baelfire as we knew him would never have done that…..but I’m not sure anyone of us expected Hook to try and kill the whole town when the darkness took him over. We’ve seen plenty of good people get corrupted by dark magic. It does remind me of Frodo and the ring at the end. And obviously what happened to Schmiegel turning into Gollum bc of the ring. So I think I can buy Baelfire instructing Rumple to kill bc the power the dagger possesses. But I also get how someone would think it sort of trashes the character of Baelfire. He only was the nice man people loved bc Rumple sacrificed his well-being for him. Now, as far as memory charms causing you to fix the darkness in your heart…..sure I can buy that. Especially since it was just one instance as opposed to like an entire lifetime for Regina, Hook, Rumple, and others (hence why they maybe can’t just take a memory potion and call it a day). I mean, it might work, but then they wouldn’t remember anything bc all the dark stuff they had done happened so long ago. They would be like a vegetable and have no idea what was going on. What’s troubling with this though is that these villains should have used a memory potion on themselves right after they did all this bad stuff. But I get that they liked the bad stuff they were doing and probably wouldn’t have taken it though.
Touchy subject here. I get why Baelfire lovers are angry but this really does change so much in my mind regarding Rumple. They sort of trashed a dead character to help get a better ending for an alive one. Baelfire fans also loved Rumple when he sacrificed everything for his son. This is another case of that. So that’s good! It does not retcon him at all and makes us feel so bad for him that he turned out the way he did. But it was at the expense of Baelfire which is unfortunate. For me, Rumple has always been a better character and my favorite so I’m not as annoyed by all of this. It only helps him and puts the one thing we all agree was Rumple’s best trait in the forefront coming down the stretch here…….and that’s his willingness to do whatever it takes for his son. His love for Baelfire. He saved him. It really turns everything on it’s head and people may need to process it for a bit. But Rumple’s character is so different now for me. Rumple could have given up the darkness and been a perfectly good person. But he saved his son from a dark fate and now is an addict of power. And it’s also good that Rumple in present day knows that his lust for power is a problem. It’s admirable that he doesn’t want that for his son now, or Baelfire back then.
A few other thoughts….
Not sure I actually liked the CS proposal. I don’t think I enjoy that Emma found the ring beforehand. To me, it ruined the proposal and the surprise. They needed to do it that way so that Hook could keep his secret a little longer without the audience being mad at him for doing it. PLOT PLOT PLOT got in the way of a better CS proposal. And not to mention Hook was drunk! He had like 5 shots at Granny’s.
And may I add I thought it was cool that they made the sword connect to Beowulf and Hrunting. I like it when they successful connect orginal themes and objects from the show and meld them into stories we already know, with a twist. It felt like classic Ouat.
Anyone wanna bet Blue forged it as a weapon against Black Fairy??
We better get this story. Like why on earth did she make the sword? that’s important to know.
Overall: Very torn about this one. Had many good things and a few not so good things. So…..let’s say 7/10.
Liked:
– The Ogre battle scenes in the beginning. I thought everything including the CGI looked good. Again, I never thought we would actually get to see that battle when Rumple kills them all so I was happy.
– The EQ is back. Let’s get this story resolved so that Black Fairy can come into town please.
– Gideon tricking Rumple. I liked the parallels between what he did to Bae and what he tried to do to Gideon. It really does put Rumple in a better light. But I liked that Gideon tricked him. And anytime someone else has the dagger and takes control of Rumple, I’m always into that.
– I liked the twist that there was no Grendel. And I thought the dynamic between Beowulf and Rumple was fun. I just wish Baelfire only instructed Rumple to kill once Rumple’s life was on the line. Beowulf was walking away and he still did it. And I get it. Rumple needed to do the memory charm on Baelfire and then took the blame for Beowulf’s death to spare Baelfire. Again, super noble. And that needed to parallel what was going on with Gideon….but idk..I’m still very torn about this.
– More Black Fairy info! She kept children in cells and beat them? Jesus. No wonder why Gideon is so messed up.
– I liked seeing where the sword came from and also that the Blue Fairy made it.
– I like that Zelena uses magic and what not while carrying Robyn haha. We always complain that we have no idea where the children are…so Zelena just brings Robyn with her. I thought it just looked kinda funny to have her wielding green fire right next to her daughter in her arms. It sort of suits her though.
– Zelena making up with Regina and Regina owning up to being a little bit of a buttface to her. I liked that they mended that relationship during the Hades story arc. It was one of my favorite parts of that season so I’m hoping this is the first step to getting Zelenapy ending. I’m not sure she deserves it just yet but perhaps she will do something in her centric to warrant a proper send off.
– I like that the spell Zelena stole from Regina didn’t work. Otherwise Regina would have used it ages ago. So thank goodness for that. If I recall, didn’t the EQ put up the barrier again so she’s gonna have to go back into Regina or off to the enchanted forest with Robin in order for that to come down I feel.
Mixed:
– The whole Baelfire instructing Rumple to kill Beowulf. Horrible at first. Made no sense. Memory spell fixes the retcon bc obviously the Baelfire we know would never have instructed Rumple to do that. But what’s annoying for Baelfire fans is that Baelfire we know was manipulated by Rumple’s memory charm. For all we know Baelfire could have turned out to be a completely different person who embraced magic, even dark magic. But it was Rumple who actually contributed to Baelfire being this way. It was Rumple who sort of sacrificed his well-being in order for the darkness not to corrupt his son. Quite admirable and it makes us feel bad for Rumple a little bit. I think this is setting us up for his death as a hero. But for die hard Baelfire fans, I can see why this is annoying. The Baelfire you all fell in love with only sort of ended up like that bc of what Rumple did to him. It really turns everything on it’s head. It’s a big twist, that I fall in the middle on. I can appreciate the sacrifice Rumple made for his son. It further emphasizes how much he truly loved him. That is good. But it shatters Baelfire’s character. So it brings to light one character and destroys another.
– We need to get some proper Savior mythology. Why does Gideon think killing the Savior will make him the Savior? This isn’t the DO. As far as we know, it doesn’t work the same way. They need to explain more of this. I’m sure we will get some answers when we get Gideon’s flashback but as of right now, these loose ends hurt his character’s motivation bc as the audience, we just don’t understand it to be feasible or attainable. We get his motivation, bc he wants to destroy the black fairy, but can it be done?
Disliked:
– Hook went to Emma first, which is fine. But he didn’t go to Charming. Yet……He still could and probably will. But it just looks bad that he didn’t get to it in this episode. It was about the CS relationship more than Charming’s dad and that’s what I didn’t want.
The Hook/Charming friendship is pretty much made up, in my opinion. The last thing that Charming said to Emma about Hook before this episode was that he just wanted her to be happy, not that he approved of Hook, but that he wanted Emma to be happy. They are not friends. They had moments in this episode, but that was the first time that they had any real moments between the two of them and then right after we found out Hook murdered Charming’s dad.
This just is not true. I’ve cited examples before but you continue to just either forget about them or ignore them. I will not engage in this again. All I will say is there have been plenty of moments where Hook and Charming have “broed out” before. And Hook has helped Charming before as well. Nightshade comes to mind.
ure. But that’s one thing that did strike me as odd in this past week’s episode (an episode I quite enjoyed btw, apart from this new twist). David and Hook already made amends and had bonded in the Underworld of S5B. So David’s whole disrespect, snarky, meanness to Hook seemed out of left field. But the writers needed it to be heightened in order to make the resolution of David giving Hook is blessing more poignant. Again, like with Belle or Archie the writing works to an extent but….side-eye
I very much agree with this. I thought David and Hook had moved past the whole pirate thing. Which is why I felt bad for him when David was still calling him that. The I felt great when David gave his blessing. And now I feel bad for Hook again haha.
I dont understand you, so you claim that Regina lost her son, which she didnt, but when we may hint that Rumple paid the ultimate price that is really loosing his son, to death, u are sarcastic, if u think that Regina paid a price , again that she didn`t you cannot eye roll about Rumple, and i can tell you something, according to circle of life parents are supposed to die before their kids, and romantic loves im sure Regina will have more and Hook could have others, but kids, no matter how many u have, there is not another kid that can replace the one u lost, so yeah, from all the villains Rumple did paid way more than the others.
Rumple has definitely paid a lot. I simply was comparing it to Regina which RumplesGirl already clarified. When she through Regina in there as not paying for her sins but said Rumple may have, I through Neal in there bc I knew she loved him. The problem with Rumple is that he keeps going back to darkness. Unlike Hook and Regina.
3) Milah–tragic, yes. But lost before he was a villain and majority of his crimes happen AFTER he lost Milah, not before. In other words, losing Milah was not punishment for his villainy in the same way Regina gave up Henry at the end of 3A as a way to pay for her sins.
But wasn’t Hook like a legit drunken pirate who probably killed people off screen (he was going to kill Rumple before he realized he became the DO. Wasn’t he hitting on women at bars etc. He was no saint before he met Milah. And by the time he lost Milah, so much had happened I feel between Rumple and Bae that it seems a lot of time had elapsed. By the time Rumple crushes Milah’s heart, you were supposed to feel bad for Hook a little bit. Please correct me if I’m wrong of course. But yes, Hook has not lost as much Regina, but he did lose Milah and pretty much everyone’s respect other than Emma. Not having people’s approval sucks and that’s a battle he is still fighting today. And even after he gets David’s respect, finally, now that likely will leave again once David finds out the news. And that’s why I feel bad for Hook. Bc he has been a good person the last two seasons and finally started getting people’s respect, and then this happens, which isn’t his fault in the present. Idk, guess I’m in the minority on here.
And while he did get his ship back, he did also give it up. Which was huuuuuuge for him. Perhaps him giving it up was enough of a sacrifice for him to feel justified getting it returned to him? Regina gave up dark magic. Henry didn’t trust her, she “lost” her son there for awhile. Rainbow, that is what I meant. But since she has become a better person, she has won her son back, and her family back. For me, that is similar to Hook losing his ship and then getting that returned back to him.
