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I feel bad for the people he’s killed, Charming, Ruth, and those affected by the any murder whether it’s done by Rumple, Regina, Zelena, or Hook. You don’t get my pity for committing murder; it’s not like it’s a hard choice. Don’t kill. Especially in a lot of Hook’s cases where the reason for the murder was tiny petty things (ie: not a crime of passion or revenge, both of which are still very not good!)
So you have never felt sorry for Regina? Felt sorry for Rumple? Not once. Especially Regina post season 2. I just wanna make sure we are treating Regina the same way we are treating Hook. If you feel the same way about Regina and that she shouldn’t be able to have Robin, have Henry, have a family who loves her….just like Hook shouldn’t get he girl, have a family, the love, the acceptance, then fine. At least there is consistency to not firgiving or feeling bad for people who have committed murder.
At least for me. Hook, and Regina/Zelena (less sure about Rumple) will walk away having to pay very little for their crimes.
I think Regina has paid a lot. The loss of her father. The loss of Daniel. The loss of Robin. The loss of Cora. Like seriously? And you only say less sure about Rumple bc of Neal. Eyeroll….This all seems like karma for Regina bc of how awful a person she used to be. For me, that’s paying for her crimes. How about the loss of her son. She has slowly built that relationship back. She even lost her magic there for awhile. Hook has definitely lost less than Regina. He’s lost his father, yes he’s lived for a bazillion years but much of it was spent in Neverland being Pan’s lackey, he lost Milah. He still doesn’t have people’s respect…until finally at the end of the episode when David finally gives it to him. It’s not like he’s lost nothing.
I…get that he’s “changed” because he doesn’t murder people anymore
And yes, he has changed. No need for quotations here. He doesn’t kill anymore, sure. But he has shown countless times that he cares for not just Emma, but for others as well. He saved Henry and cared about what he thought of him. He saved Belle and killed Jekyll/Hyde. He provided Belle with a safe haven to get away from Rumple. He helped David this episode and even lied to Emma for him. He not only helped David find out what happened to his father, but he also stopped David from making a terrible mistake in killing King George. Like what part about Hook says he hasn’t completely changed other than you and many others still being skeptical simply bc of his past. He has done nothing in the last two seasons since he stopped being the DO to question his commitment to being a better person. If he has, I’d like someone to cite it.
Seriously, the whole idea that someone hasn’t murdered anyone in awhile meaning they are redeemed has always been so out there to me. Not murdering people in cold blood is like basic humanity. That doesn’t make one a hero of any sort. Especially, like others have said, these are people who have murdered a lot of people to the point where it was just not big deal for them to just kill a guy because it is more convenient for them then worrying about what they might say if they leave them alive.
And again for reasons I said above, it’s not that he just isn’t murdering anyone anymore. He has saved lives, including Belle, Henry, and King George. He has gone out of his way to help people. Sure he’s not killing anymore and is vehemently against it now, but he’s also caring for others. But all anybody ever focuses on is his past crimes and I just don’t feel like Regina is treated the same way.
And as far as Zelena goes, she lost the person she loved…..Hades. But other than that, you are right, she hasn’t paid for her villainess ways. I cannot defend her.
[adrotate group="5"]thedarkonedearie wrote: But King George, he doesn’t regret anything. He’s not trying to be a better person. Well he’s also been given zero room to do so. He’s been locked up in prison by our characters and (out of universe) not part of the narrative for four years. Now I know that’s because he’s a D-list character and not an A or even a B, but if we’re thinking in-universe then what right do any of the characters have to lock someone up because of their crimes when several murderers who have fallen off the wagon in terms of darkness are not.
Haha yes well they certainly have no right to lock him up for eternity and give others a second chance. But given how much these writers seem to enjoy writing redemption stories, if Alan Dale was able to come back more often, or if they felt they needed him to, I’m sure he wouldn’t be locked up all the time. Keeping him locked away is obviously just an easy way for them to keep him off screen but not kill him.
Regina and Hook have regretted their past actions. Zelena….ehhh. But King George, he doesn’t regret anything. He’s not trying to be a better person. Come on guys, there’s a huge difference.
But this is not a Greek tragedy, it’s a fantasy melodrama. So this episode, by putting the engagement ring and proposal into a single narrative frame, presents the consequences for Hook’s past actions catching up with him as first and foremost a potential impediment to his prospective marriage, which we all know will happen regardless. For me, that’s the main issue. Hook as a character is overdetermined by his ability to “get the girl” — everything else seems to fall by the wayside, including the girl’s other familial relations. This particular focus does Hook’s character no favors.
But we never got Hook saying how worried he is that Emma won’t marry him now bc of what he did to Robert. For all we know, the first thing that pops into his head is in fact how Charming will feel and how awful he himself feels for being the one who actually killed Robert, especially after helping him the whole episode figure out what happened to give David some closure. Nowhere did the show suggest all he cares about is getting the girl. He even lied to Emma for David. I don’t think it’s fair to say he is simply overdetermined to get the girl and doesn’t care about anything else. That was Hook in season 3 and even 4. But I think he has shown countless times that he cares for others. Just this season, he cared about what Henry thought about him. And he saved his life.
There is a limit. Hook never atoned for anything so his whole “redemption” is a joke in my opinion (as well as Regina’s and Zelena’s for all those who are ready to jump and call me a bitter shipper or whatever). I, personally, would find it hard to forgive someone who deliberately killed one of my family members even after they supposedly “changed”.
Well at least you are consistent. But I mean, with this logic, no one could ever get redeemed bc you would never forgive them. So why even try to change? And you can’t say these characters haven’t tried to change. They have, and for the most part, they have all succeeded. Zelena isn’t really wicked anymore. She has found love in her daughter Robyn. Regina isn’t evil anymore. She has found love within her family and Henry. Hook isn’t a bad pirate anymore. He has found love with Emma. I think all three, especially Regina, have atoned. Regina spent whole two seasons with everyone hating her and not trusting her. She has lost Robin. Hook still has his gf’s dad calling him a dirty pirate even though he’s been a good person for the last couple seasons. Idk. I just feel bad for Hook bc most have accepted that he has changed and accepted he was a bad pirate that killed people in the past. And now, nothing has changed. He was still a bad pirate, but now we find out one random guy in the woods happened to be Charming’s dad bc of course it was, and now everyone isn’t going to trust him again. It’s just too bad. It’s not like he did something in the present that was awful. Then that would be regressing and I wouldn’t feel bad at all. This is different.
I mean sure going forward, Hook is now involved. But it was Charming’s father. This directly affects Charming now. And bc it affects him, it has a ripple effect. It now effects Emma and the rest of the Charming family. What about the fact that his father got himself sober and became a good man? That’s important for Charming going forward. It was closure for him. What about the missing pages from the storybook that Pinocchio returned? What about Regina realizing Robin is not the same and that she needs to accept that and move on? This felt like a legit episode for Charming and just bc it was revealed that Hook ultimately was the one to finish Robert off instead of King George, that didn’t take away the importance of this episode toward Charming. To say this was just all about Hook seems unfair to everything that happened in the episode, specifically for David.
It was just done randomly at the end and it was about Hook’s feelings more then about Charming’s. This entire episode felt more about Hook’s feelings then Charming’s because what was going on with Charming was all filler.
Yeah I’ll just say I completely disagree. Charming had some of his best “feels” moments in this episode than he has had in years it seems.
Why should I feel bad for Hook, who murdered someone in cold blood (He didn’t even feel anything while he did that. Do you know what kind of people are like that? Psychpaths)? Hook has to deal with consequences, boo hoo.
If you don’t feel a little bad for Hook, then you will never forgive him for the man he used to be. And if you feel that way, then you must believe people cannot change or at the very least, should never even try to become a better person bc no one should forgive them. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have to deal with those consequences. I’m simply saying he accomplished a lot by getting Charming’s approval and convincing everyone that he is in fact a changed man. And it’s a shame that he came this far only to have to deal with things he’s done in the past again. I would feel the same way if Regina ended up being the one who killed Charming’s dad.
Put me in the camp of wanting Emma to die. Also side note: didn’t the writers say we were going to get Savior mythology, especially in this back half of the season? So expect Emma to realize that while most can change their fate if you truly believe, unfortunately the price of being a Savior and saving everybody, is sacrificing your life. It can be very bittersweet and I hope that’s the route they take.
