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Oh my, this is the best episode of the season hands down and perhaps one of my all time favorites.
Overall: 9/10
Liked:
– Belle’s speech to Rumple. The acting was unreal between these two.
-The twist with the shared hearts and the sleeping curse from EQ was genius. I always roll my eyes when a villain could kill someone but they choose to do something they feel is more torturous simply bc the writers don’t want to kill off anybody. But this, what the EQ did instead of killing one or both of them, is so awful. Bravo Jane Espenson. Bravo.
– Snowing was going to actually sacrifice their lives???? Jesus. And Regina and Emma were going to fight the EQ. They were going to give it all they had. Graveyard scene really was solid and Lana is just amazing at being the EQ. Hooray for the EQ finally doing something!
– Hook and Emma scene with the book. Incredible.
– Blue Fairy changing into her big self was actually kinda cool. I don’t believe that was ever established that she could do that but I liked it.
– I liked the camera shot of Snow in the Woodcutter’s box and Charming just outside of it so we could see both at the same time. I was worried that this would kill their first face to face meeting from season 1 but it actually worked for me. That one line from Snow about her not being alone bc someone believes in her was some great writing.
– Zelena turning green…….yikes.
– Water wasn’t a magical macguffin. It actually was from the Underworld arc. Yay.
Mixed:
– Rumple and Regina making out. Like, uhhhhh, I get it. They have always had chemistry but it just doesn’t work on camera for me.
– The sapling. I liked the Snowing montage a lot and it was a fun way for them to find out they actually had met before. However, the whole Blue Fairy using her wand and poof they found where it was…eye roll
Disliked:
– No Aladdin Jasmine and Jafar. No savior mythology stuff. So this arc came to a halt but I get the sense that the EQ storyline and the Emma savior Aladdin Jafar storyline will not merge together. EQ will run a muck til the midseason premiere and then the second half will bring the savior stuff back. At least that’s my guess.
[adrotate group="5"]Seriously this season has been quite enjoyable. Having a good villain goes a long way. And it hasn’t been just an episode or a couple episodes. It’s been more than a few which has been nice. It’s like a great middle ground between Galavan and The Ogre. I do hope his story is not over thought. The Mad Hatter has been great and for him to just get captured by Barnes was kind oi anti-climactic.
By everyone, I meant on this forum.
And I wasn’t getting into a ship war. I wasn’t saying which ship is better at all. In fact, if there was a gun to my head, I think I liked Neal and Emma better. I just don’t look at Hook with a hateful biased view because of it. I just thought because of who Emma is dating and because of who she dated before him, that has exhibited some serious bias on this particular forum. And this came up in this thread because they showed Hook putting others before himself yet again in this episode and when it was brought up that someone didn’t like how Hook was getting redeemed or that he was getting redeemed at all, I thought I would respond by pointing out how other bad people have gotten redeemed and didn’t get as much pushback as Hook is getting. I think it has all been fairly cordial and relevant for this thread.
Does that mean that such a person, and the character that stands for them, is absolutely irredeemable? Not necessarily. And in the hands of competent writers, I would actually be interested in seeing an effective and compelling redemption arc for a kind of social type that I personally find thoroughly loathsome. But what they’re doing doesn’t accomplish that.
See I think putting Henry first over himself and saving Belle’s life (the wife of the man he used to hate and want to kill for revenge) is absolutely effective in getting Hook redeemed. And as far as generalizing, it just seems that nobody on here hated that the writers were trying to redeem Regina for all her MURDERS and RAPING. But because Hook is sexual by nature, and is also male (I’m sorry but I think this matters), his misdeeds are worse than murder and rape. And yes, I know Hook killed people and his father but that’s not what you mentioned. You mentioned he is an “entitled bro,” a title that cannot be given to a woman. And you mention that these villains that they tried to redeem haven’t gotten what they wanted, except for Hook. And yet, Regina has Henry and the love of her family who forgave her. Rumple still has Belle somehow and a child on the way, and Zelena still has her child. So why can’t Hook continue to have Emma?
Just because SwanFire fans do not like Hook, it does not mean their criticisms are not on point.
Absolutely you are right. But if you’re going to have that opinion about Hook, it needs to be consistent with other characters who got redeemed and you had no problem with it.
Having Emma (and other characters) accept Hook and sweep his past misdeeds under the carpet romanticises toxic masculinity.
But Emma is choosing to be with him because she sees the good in Hook. It was the same for Belle for YEARS. Now she says “I see you for what you really are,” but for years that’s what she always said. She always saw the good in Rumple, the man behind the beast. So Emma can’t believe Hook can change because of his past deeds but Robin can believe it when he fell in love with Regina? Belle can’t believe it when she fell for Rumple? My problem is that you and others are inconsistent with this argument. You say Emma choosing Hook is toxic masculinity and yet others characters have done this and they get SO MUCH MORE SLACK. Again, because Emma left Neal for Hook, that is why, I think, Hook and Emma do not get that same slack.
If Henry using that word bothers you, then I’m not sure this is the show for you. As RG said, of all the things they have done on this show (verbal and physical spousal abuse, magic rape, murder), if Henry saying that word is the the final straw then I don’t even know anymore. And if you think boys his age aren’t saying far worse words than that, than I think that’s being quite naive. I certainly was at that age. It’s funny because I actually had no idea what you were talking about until TheWatcher said what the word was. That is how minor I took it to be. For a second, I thought he said something worse but then figured that wouldn’t make it to television so I was really confused.
And as far as curse words go, most describe a body part, person, or an inappropriate act. That word is a rare exception and it’s simply because of the negative connotation it has in it’s religious origin. At the end of the day, heck is a place. But yes, technically it is a curse word. It’s just funny I didn’t even notice it. That’s how bad some shows have gotten with the more aggressive curse words. I hear that word and treat it as a normal word which I suppose is a little alarming if you’re someone who gets a easily offended by stuff on tv.
Red Queen:
Overall I liked this episode. The dreams were creepy as all hell and I thought the reveal of Gordon’s father was good and then the twist that he’s the head honcho with the court of owls was surprising. Crazy Barbara is always great but minus points bc it seems Mulan is gonzo from the show.
I’ll always resent the fact that A&E chose this particular character to devote so much care to writing, while killing off other characters (eg Robin) because they couldn’t be bothered, or systematically dismantling complex and much loved characters like Rumple and Belle.
Hook’s actions made him interesting, made him loathed by people, loved by some. He’s controversial. He allegedly loves the Savior. That is why they devote so much care to him. Robin, did not have these qualities that made him controversial. He was boring. Yes, I suppose you could say the writers made him boring by not fleshing out his character, but some of the best characters on television are the ones that are hated. It sparks chatter and gets people invested (possibly hoping that terrible person dies for example). Hook was a villain when he was brought into the show and and he acted like such. Now if you want to be angry that the writers decided to have him fall for Emma and have Emma accept him, well then that’s perfectly reasonable. But I don’t get how you can not understand why the writers have devoted so much time writing for him simply because he’s what you call a bad person.
But anyone can change and they are choosing to have Hook change into a better person. Yes, they are giving him layups and are writing it in on purpose, but isn’t that how it’s done. When they want Rumple to be a jerk, they have him do stupid stuff like force Belle on a boat that she can’t escape from. Again, this all seems like bias opinions toward not liking Hook because of Neal. I don’t want to put any words in anyone’s mouth but it just seems that way to me. Before this season and before Regina split herself, EVERYONE FORGAVE HER when she started doing good things. She slaughtered an entire village for goodness sake. She used light magic to save everybody from Zelena in 3b and from the second dark curse in season 3a. And maybe not now, but a season or two ago, MOSTLY EVERYONE FORGAVE Rumple for his past actions as the dark one as soon as he started spilling to Belle how much he loved her. MOSTLY EVERYONE FORGAVE Zelena after all the stuff she pulled (SHE KILLED NEAL!!!) just because she seemed like someone who actually cared about her child and she killed Hades and saved Regina and everyone for that matter. But now, Hook does some nice things harboring Belle, saves Henry, saves Belle from certain death, and now he doesn’t deserve redemption? He doesn’t deserve to be written for? I’m sorry, but it’s hard for that not to come off as being biased because of who’s he dating and who he’s dating dated before his death. It’s just really unfair to Hook I think.
