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This show has fallen FAR from grace, and if they do actually plan to get it even remotely back on track, it’s gonna take baby steps, lots of them. The character moments in this ep felt like potential baby steps to me. Like things that they’ve finally acknowledged to themselves that they’ve stuffed up, so they’re gonna try to turn some aspects of the show around. Whether it lasts, or I’m totally wrong and the rest of the season is just more of the same old, (which wouldn’t really surprise me), remains to be seen.
This is pretty much my entire feeling on this episode. This episode was a step in the right direction, at least that’s how I felt.
[adrotate group="5"]Oh I think it speaks loads about the CS relationship but I don’t know that A and E understand what it says about the pairing. That’s the issue isn’t it? Do A and E actually understand how their writing is translated on screen? I think in their heads their response would be “this is how Emma reacts. She has walls. They go up” without thinking through the romantic repercussions. Emma runs away, Hook runs off and drink and if you were to ask A and E they’d say something like “keep watching. they are taking a journey together!”
Ok so I do disagree with this. But I tend to disagree with most of CS stuff on here. Is it a bad thing that Hook tried multiple times to get through to Emma, knowing full well that something was wrong, but she still refused to be honest with him on multiple occasions over multiple things….so then Hook went to get a drink at Grannie’s? Why is that bad on Hook’s end? This is all Emma. Hook did everything he could and she won’t divulge and trust him. You can’t blame Hook for getting a drink after those ridiculously frustrating conversations. I’d get a drink too if I was Hook. And at this point, I’d be getting pretty fed up with Emma and her walls and quite frankly, her flat out deceit.
I also thought that was really strange. Her red leather jacket has always been referred to her as her armor, that which kept her protected from the hardships of the world. It’s her superhero cape too, though. She puts it on when it’s time to suit up as the Savior (see, episode 312). So which does Hook like? How is the jacket being read here? Or is it just vanilla kink for the sake of vanilla kink and the writers don’t have any sort of meaning behind it either than the fact that they both favor red leather jackets.
I think this was just a case of trying to show them as a couple. Hook has always been attracted to her feistiness and although her jacket is her “armor”, it’s also a symbol she wears when she’s trying to kick some tail, and Hook has always been attracted to that part of Emma. It was just a small scene of them being a couple and I liked it.
My prediction is also that the Oracle is Jafar. The red bird has to be Iago. They wouldn’t just have a random girl pop up in the forest. And if this is true, then is Hyde working with Jafar? He’s the one who told Emma what to do. What is Hyde’s true motivation? And what is Jafar’s? Does that mean what the Oracle is showing Emma is a lie? And if it is, what does Jafar gain from showing Emma this? All interesting questions. But like come on, a red bird? A random girl in the woods? It’s too easy. It has to be Jafar and Iago.
And yes, A&E have said now that it is the same Jafar from Wonderland. Which means they will have to be very careful with how they handle his backstory, if we get one.
Sooo…not sure what’s up with all the negativity about the premiere here as I think it gave us exactly what we’ve all been wanting for years: a slowed-down pace with many character development scenes and solid acting from characters that they are actually showing acting and feeling human emotions, and processing them. I find many things RG is saying to be a little nit picky. They can’t show us every scene about how a character got to a certain place in storybrooke.
Overall: 7.5/10
Liked: Everything with Rumple and Belle and Morpheus. When Rumple said he would try to be the best man he can be for Belle, that’s so incredibly telling. He didn’t say he would be a better man, or that he would change. He said he would be the best he can be, which I think we have already seen. He loves her, but can’t give up his other side. I thought the scene with the castle going from scary and dark to light and beautiful with the song playing in the background was great. I thought it was great that Rumple failed to do what he wanted and I loved that Morpheus was actually their son and that it was him who woke Belle. I thought it made sense. I thought it was a nice twist that I didn’t see coming and I thought it was handled well. I did not think it retconned much with Skin Deep like others felt it did. I always felt that Belle was very leery and a little frightened when she first was at the castle. I just think in most of the flashbacks we have seen, we see she has overcome those fears and started to really like the beast. I had zero problem with her dreaming of the castle as this dark scary place with the beast lurking and her not wanting to disappoint. It’s just perhaps they didn’t show us enough in the past to warrant her looking so frightened in her dream. But this relationship is still so messy and I think that makes it more real. They clearly love each other but sometimes that’s just not enough and I appreciate there isn’t a quick fix here with these two.
– Snow and Regina scene. They have come a loooong way. Had zero problems with this. As far as I’m concerned, they are all in the same town. It doesn’t bother me that we don’t see how Snow got to Regina or knew where she was. You really want to see Regina call Snow and be like, hey let’s talk? It wasn’t necessary for me. They all live in the same area. It’s very easy for them to know where each other are.
– Regina and Zelena scene. Again, great character development as they are actually showing Regina cope and grieve. I had zero problem with this scene bc when one grieves, you say things you don’t necessarily mean or perhaps you just aren’t thinking clearly. It’s easy to want to put blame on someone. Zelena was an easy target. Regina is dealing with a lot right now and I’m not going to get mad at the writers for writing a realistic scene where she yells at her sister for falling in love with an evil God when she warned her not to multiple times which then resulted in him completely annihilating Robin. It’s not all Zelena’s fault, but she deserves some of the blame, despite her ultimately killing Hades, and these two are finally acting like sisters-yelling and being petty and what not. These are scenes we would never get before. They would be off on a new adventure and Regina would say some random line about how hard it is for her with Robin’s death, but instead we got two great scenes where she breaks down and screams at her sister in one, and then breaks down again but opens up with Snow. These scenes were lost the past few years and it’s so refreshing they have the time to show this now and I think it will do wonders for the characters.
– Hyde is great. His voice is just so goooooooood. I think he steals the scenes he’s in right now.
– Emma and Hook on the couch. Say what you want with whether you like them together or not, but the big thing we all agree on is if they are going to stay together, let’s show the couple being a couple. Even something small like them getting frisky on the couch and Hook saying he wants her to keep the red leather jacket on, is soo needed with these two. Again, character development people. These people have relationships and lives. Let’s have them lay down on a couch and watch netflix for once before going back out on an adventure. And now we know one of Hook’s kinks haha.
– Evil Queen and the Wicked Witch with appletinis. Perfect combination of apple and green.
– I actually really like Emma’s premonition. Who is under the cloak? Who is Emma’s true villain? It’s a question I always wanted to know. What’s the end game for the Savior? And now they have us guessing. It could be someone we know. It could be someone they haven’t introduced yet. It could be Jafar or Iago acting as the Oracle and trying to fool her. Based on how this show has gone, I want it to be Rumple. He should be her villain and that’s my prediction and hope that the final battle is between those two.
Mixed:
– Aladdin and Jafar. Still not sure if I’m going to like Jafar. Too early to see how this actor does with it. But I do like that Aladdin was also a savior and perhaps Jafar was his villain? Still too early to tell on all of this and how they will incorporate Aladdin and Jasmine and Jafar, but it’s intriguing.
– Archie and Emma. Loved that Archie and Pongo are back. And I loved that his patient was Emma. She needs it. However, I wish his wisdom did not include her walls going back up again. Listen, we get it. She has trouble letting people in. But let’s not revert her back to her old ways. It hinders her character development.
– Like Jeremy on the podcast, I’m having a little trouble looking at the EQ as an actual person. It’s weird. Jekyll and Hyde, fine. But like, it’s just weird for me, and I can’t put my finger on it. I like that the EQ is back, but this shouldn’t be something that was possible. Like how on Earth is the EQ a separate body and person from Regina? And I get it, Hyde’s serum. I just need more from the EQ as far as what she is able to think and what her motivations are and how she actually is “alive” right now. Until then, it’s weird on camera to me.
Disliked:
– All the Robin crap about Hades possibly lying. Just let it go. The fan base got pissed bc you obliterated a good father. So what? Tell your damn story and stop catering to the fans. It was necessary.
– Henry, just useless again. If they are going to create that season 1 feel, they need to incorporate Henry.
– The plot was a little slow. But again, I will take this slow build-up over rushed scenes just for plot and get zero character development. They are treating Regina’s character so well right now.
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And then the scene between Snow and Regina. It was 3 solid minutes (including the montage scenes when Regina was still speaking) of two people just sitting on a bench having a quiet conversation about who they were, and who they are, and how far they’ve come. Since when does that happen on this show?!
Precisely this. It lasted a long time. It was a great scene. The slow moving plot, Hyde getting captured easily, and characters jumping around storybrooke with no explanation of how they got there or how they knew a character was where they were all are a little frustrating. But the character scenes between Regina and Snow, Regina and Zelena, Rumple and Belle and their future son, and Emma and Archie are all scenes we haven’t really gotten in a few years and that’s what stood out to me in this episode. And this is mainly what I wanted. An overarching story that eventually introduces new villains and characters but keeps the focus on the main crew and actually delves back into their mindset giving them more character development scenes that help us relate to them on a more human level. A good premiere, not great, but intrigued by new villains and the slow-it-down character scenes that can only help the show reach its final conclusion.
He actually didn’t die but the show has made it very clear that he IS NOT returning. The only cast member returning from season 1 is Juliette Lewis, the detective. Otherwise, it’s a whole now case with new characters and plot. So because of how adamant Ryan Phillipe has been as well as abc about no one returning from season 1 except Juliette Lewis, it would be shocking if the main guy from last year who looked like he committed the murder, who eventually was proven innocent, actually did come back. But I do doubt it. Perhaps the real murderer came back? Don’t want to give spoilers but they pretty much got away with it if I remember correctly. Phillipe took the fall for them. Like, the network has been very blunt in saying these characters won’t be back. And the show just isn’t big enough to land some big guest actor (although Terry O’Quinn is a supporting character in this next season so yays for that). So if we honestly have ruled out every other show, and based on what I saw from Secrets and Lies season 1 and what I’ve read online from abc and actors from season 1 of Secrets and Lies, I think it has to be OUAT. Either that, or it’s a comedy. There’s really just no way it’s Secrets and Lies now that I think about it. It’s basically a whole new season with new people and actors. Again, other than Juliette Lewis.
So I watched Secrets and Lies season 1 and actually kind of enjoyed it. It wouldn’t surprise me if the casting was Ryan Phillipe from season 1. But I’m pulling for OUAT. Who would have thought they’d be a finalist for this? How intriguing.
I know I’m broken record, and I know you actually agree with me, but they need to get off Twitter, they need to stop doing fan-run interviews (questions from fans and not TV people like Natalie or Matt M) because a good swath of the social-media based fandom is unhappy. It’s why SDCC has become such a listless affair over the past few years with tightly controlled, pre-screened questions. And it sucks because on the one hand, I like hearing from the creators, I like getting to hear their perspective on things, but on the other hand they always manage to say something insensitive, hostile, alarming (I’m still not over the whole ‘we have to change things once the audience figures it out’ debacle) or just plain stupid.
Pretty much all of this. Like I really do like hearing from them. I like getting little tidbits of spoilers and hints of what’s to come. Problem is they either say the wrong thing sometimes or they give us a hint that never comes to fruition. I think I’d hate it more if we never heard from them, but yes, some things they say are incredibly annoying, and for me I get annoyed the most when they tell lies (whether they mean to or not). But I also think the fan base is way too hard on them. And at this point, based on what these writers have said in the past, it doesn’t surprise me that they would make a twitter joke like that. Some of the stuff tweeted at them is unruly and ridiculous but also, how about you write a more consistent show that is your own and own it and stop catering to everyone else who should have zero say in what you guys do. Then perhaps you wouldn’t get nasty tweets sent your way. There’s blame on both sides for sure.
So these writers definitely don’t say the right things all the time but it seems OUAT fans, especially on here, really do nitpick every little word they say. Perhaps over analyzing it a bit too much. I can’t help but feel like these guys are constantly walking on egg shells. It seems no matter what they say, there’s at least one word that doesn’t sit right with people. Characters die. Characters live. They have the power to bring back whoever they want. They clearly are not bringing back Robin Hood. And for fans who liked the character or felt his death was done poorly, pretty much whatever they say on the matter is going to irk them. If you aren’t a fan of Hook and were annoyed when they brought him back the way that they did, anything the writers say regarding Hook, especially when the interviewer asks and compares him to Robin Hood, is not going to sit well.
What they really should stop doing are these interviews. They know they are going to get asked these questions and no matter what they say, it’s going to piss someone off. I feel bad for them but I also don’t because they opened up the door to bring people back from the dead. And when you do it for one character and not the other, it poses problems and they’re up for scrutiny. The big problem was they wanted to bring back Hook, and wanted to kill Robin, so they created a crystal that would literally “end” Robin Hood so he wouldn’t be able to be brought back. But then the fan base got upset because how could you just “end” and “obliterate” a loving father and a good soul like that? So now they are stuck. They should just tell their story and stop worrying about what the fans think because you can’t please everyone.
