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Yes I was thinking the same thing, actually. They gave one set of brothers closure. Would they do the same for another pair? I somehow doubt it.
Likely not. But as Cruella said, we will at least see the two brothers meet, which will be kinda cool.
[adrotate group="5"]Hades could be their way of FINALLY explaining how Pan got that drawing of Henry, if Hades and Pan do have a past.
Wow, what a connection that would be. Would really tie up a huge loose end that I really never expected to be tied up.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around some of this so forgive me if it’s rather scatterbrained. I think my issue comes down to this: can you have forgiveness or redemption without any sort of suffering. If we make this interpersonal and maybe take out God/religion…it bothers me that Hook starts off this episode saying that he doesn’t deserved to be saved because of his crimes (which are numerous and lengthy and extend back many years). I actually think that’s too his credit and it’s very nice to see him openly admitting that. He’s ready to put in the work, as it were, of atoning for his various ills. However, by episodes end, he comes around to Emma’s way of thinking, that he does deserve to go back to SB, he deserves saving, and that he’s a hero. But where’s the work? Where’s the suffering that earned him this forgiveness? He was beaten up and bloody a bit, and perhaps was one of Cerberus’s chew toys for a very brief period, but for the many (many many) crimes committed, is it enough? The show seems to think so. Is that…okay?
Man you nailed it. Hook’s behavior at the very wend really bothered me. Not just because no “work” was put into it, but because it was just dumb. How do you go from feeling that bad about yourself, which was so great for him to finally really admit, to then just saying he’s worth saving? I thought it was bad writing honestly. Even if Cerberus torture was enough suffering, it was just such a fast turnaround, and to me, nothing really happened for him to change his mind, other than Liam moving on, and to me, that didn’t really correlate with Hook’s dilemma.
Couldn’t Zelena’s connection to Hades explain how she was able to return to life and become Mariann? I know they’ve already explained it in the show, but was there more to it? Technically she did cheat death. Seems like that would get Hades’ attention.
I find this to be quite interesting. It would explain a little better how she survived Rumple’s dagger stabbing.
–The key to defeating Hades is….Zelena’s love?? Ugh. No. But I fear that’s where they are going.
Oh God I really hope not.
There are people who write them criticism on Twitter, but they just treat it as if it is “hate” or shippers being disappointed and dismiss it.
Because obviously you know what they are thinking…man I hate to keep coming to the writer’s side here, but sheesh. Nothing was said in this episode that made me feel all battered wife syndromyyy…I mean I guess if you’re only looking for faults, you’re going to find them in this show. And I knew this wouldn’t be a popular episode with most SF people on here, and I expected not to like this episode either, however, I enjoyed it way more than I thought I would. And just commenting on what RG said, I don’t mind the hiding spot for the pen. No one would look there, and it only lit up because Henry was in the room. However, the episode certainly had its flaws….
7/10
Liked:
Hades. He is awesome. And I actually don’t mind the hair anymore. It’s ridiculous at first, but once the audience associates that with the character, I think it makes him unique and I find it rather humorous. And since Hades is so good at walking the line between funny, and mischievous, I’ve come to enjoy his quirks, which include his silly blue hair, if that makes sense. For me, it doesn’t make him any less menacing. But that’s just me.
– Cruella- Uhh she is amazing. Everything from her sexual advances, the handcuffs, the booze, the way she carries herself, the speeding, the not liking the swampy woods, the Bambi’s mom’s fur, it’s all just great.
– Henry telling everyone. I would have been super annoyed if Henry did a bone head move again and saved Cruella without even telling his family. Glad that did not happen. And the Charming talk was great.
– Hades blowing over Captain Silver. Pretty cool I thought. Pretty fitting way to kill someone considering his character.
– Heaven is not Olympus. I mean, duh. Glad it wasn’t. Would have been kinda stupid.
– The Zelena reveal. We knew it was coming, but if I didn’t know, I would think it was cool that they were tying her into his story. Don’t think I would have saw it coming.
– I enjoyed the macguffin in the episode. It’s clever and original I thought. Who would think that “the eye of the storm” was an actual object and it once again fills in a gap of time we did not know, which was how they ended up in the Royal Navy.
– I like they are telling us more about Hades….now we know he is a God. And we know Heaven isn’t just Olympus. And it looks like we may get Zelena’s connection to Hades in the next episode. They aren’t waiting around and stalling which I like.
– And I do love that the book is so important again, and Henry being the author is important again…..
Mixed:
– So there is a well? And it leads to the rivers in Hades’ lair?
– Liam telling Emma she was selfish. This bothered me like it did with everyone else. This particular part was great. What wasn’t great was what happened at the end of the episode.
– How did the book get into the UW exactly? Did I miss something? It wasn’t broken like the pen was…
– No Rumple. But I mean, he didn’t have a part in the story so I mean, I understand why. Still, not my favorite when he’s not in it.
– As Keb pointed out, Hades doesn’t want souls leaving, and wants souls badly enough that he will make a deal with Liam too wreck the boat on purpose just to get more souls? But then he just sends Captain Silver to a fiery grave all willy nilly? Doesn’t really make sense given the motivations we know.
– The effects I thought were actually decent and satisfying enough. With the fire, and Liam falling, and then the boat rising with the water. It was satisfying enough for me.
– Charming’s bro James being the mayor made sense. But while Cruella was all over David, where the heck did Snow go? Didn’t she just hide off screen? Did she not see what Cruella was doing to David? You’d think that would bother her and she would pop out and stop the charade instead of David doing it on his own.
Disliked:
– Pretty much what everyone else said…..One second Hook feels he doesn’t deserve to come back because of what he did (which was great), and then by the end of the episode, he’s totally fine with it. We didn’t even get a line from Hook that showed he truly forgave himself for what he did. And there’s Emma, who just continues to look so desperate.
– Liam changing his mind about Emma. Someone finally called her out on her selfishness which was great. But then, no one acknowledged why Hook was also in the wrong, except Emma, in a brief comeback line. And then, Liam changed his mind and tells Hook Emma is great for him. What did Emma do that made him change his mind exactly?
– How about Captain Silver just accepting defeat after Liam takes his sword on the boat. Not even a fight from you Silver? What a lame character. Worse than Blackbeard. And we didn’t even get a confirmation that it was “Long John” Silver.
All in all though, a lot better than I thought it would be. It’s probably the weakest of this half season, but that’s not saying much because I think this half season has been pretty great. This had a lot of Hades so that helped the episode a lot for me.
But it does speak to something that OUAT has been harping on a bit lately; that proper manhood is defined through aggression, violence and fighting. Rumple had to become a true hero by learning to fight with Merida and then fighting a bear for Belle as an example.
Well the Rumple and Merida story line and turning him into a hero was a train wreck. No doubt. You know, funny enough, I sort of think we can compare Rumple and Hook here a bit. I think they both, on the surface, and without thinking, on the spot, do the right things. This is just the latest case with Hook stepping in and without thinking, protecting some stranger. We have seen Rumple and Hook do horrible things, to each other, their friends, and to the people they love. But we have also seen both of them act honorably, attempting to even sacrifice themselves. But they always seem to revert back to their “nasty habits.” Or in Hook’s case, “bad form.” I know a lot of people are not Hook fans on here, but I find myself seeing many similarities between Rumple and Hook. And similarly to Belle with Rumple, Emma seems to forgive Hook quite a lot, for past and present actions. Hook and Rumple hate each other, but they really are much more alike than they know.
We know what turned Rumple into the semi-monster, albeit with human motivations, he is today (becoming the DO), but it would be nice to see what changed Hook, and I don’t think having a corrupt ruler who wanted to use nightshade as a weapon is enough of a motivation to become a total butt face. And the revenge stuff for killing Milah is also getting old. I think it would help humanize Hook a bit and help understand his character a little more if we understood more about why he became the man with bad form. Or maybe I just don’t like the reasons the writers have already gave. Honestly, I used to really like Hook, so I’m struggling to figure out why I don’t like him as much anymore.
No Hook doesn’t rely on drink with Milah but he does rely on aggression: he literally decks a guy, saving Milah from her situation.
Let’s not blame Hook for protecting who he felt was a woman about to be in a dangerous situation. The guy he decked may have tried to rape Milah for all we know. To say he relied on aggression there is so unfair. He helped her, and he didn’t even know her. And then he backed off when she said she was married. In my eyes, Hook did absolutely nothing wrong in this scene.
It shouldn’t matter how much women drink and what they say/do while drunk, you shouldn’t take advantage of that; if your intention is to get them drunk enough so that they “consent” (quotation marks very much deliberate) to sex, then you’re guilty of a crime.
I’ll chime in here. This is very important what RG said. If a guy’s intentions are to get them drunk so that they will be more likely to consent, that is wrong. But, if they are drinking and there were no preconceived motivations to have sex with her beforehand, and it just happens because the girl is drunk, that’s not wrong. That’s called sloppy sex and consequently, the walk of shame the next morning.
