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Adam & Eddie love their literary references. We saw so much of that in LOST and I’m so glad they brought it over to OUAT.
Our Neal’s name was based on the real life Neal Cassady, who was friends with writers Jack Kerouac. Jack wrote the book On the Road in which he based his fictional character, Dean Moriarty, after Neal Cassady (Dean Moriarty was also one of the name’s on a fake passport used by Ben in LOST).
The real Neal Cassady’s life paralleled our Neal’s life. Both had stolen cars, were thieves, were abandoned by their fathers and led lonely lives that ended in early deaths.
Neal Cassady & Jack Kerouac were also good friends with Ken Kesey, who wrote One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. The main character, McMurphy, was also based on the real Neal Cassady.
Love how these literary nods all connect. So many layers on this show that go beyond what the normal viewer sees. 🙂
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
I get that many of us will see all the recent references about NealFire differently.
Some will see it as A&E finally acknowledging his death and firmly cementing in concrete.
Some will see it as a foreshadowing of things to come with a possibility of resurrecting NealFire.
However, what I don’t get is how something so important as Isaac saying that a quill & ink can, in fact, change the past it has created can be overlooked and discounted so easily.
Those words were extremely important and they literally made me stop and say “Woah!” out loud. It’s a game changer and I don’t think A&E would have thrown those words out so cavalierly. Not when they themselves have said this finale is a game changer.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Re #3, to me it feels like nothing more than the writers feeling like they had to acknowledge the elephant in the room and make up a reason for why he won’t be seen again.
It’s perfectly logical. I don’t know where people got the impression that the Author can break the rules of magic in the first place.
Isaac saying “This quill and Ink CAN only change a past it has created.” is more than just an impression.
It’s a confirmation that ANYTHING, even death, can be changed by the quill & ink that originally created it. Why? Because Isaac said it CAN.
Written word now trumps any rules of magic IT has created.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Those examples had their loopholes, whether you like them or not….Point is, you can’t just open up the possibility of just anybody being resurrected, because what happens to the stakes when you can just bring anybody back from the dead? I agree that the above loopholes are annoying, but you do have to draw the line somewhere.
But my point is, magical rules are not insurmountable or impossible to overcome. There’s always a loop hole! For Pete’s sake, Zelena’s time-travel spell worked, even though it’s against the laws of magic! There’s always a loop-hole!
Hear, hear! 🙂
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
I think we also should rememeber this about Authors: They are supposed to record. Not create. While the authors can create and alter with the quill (obviously) that’s not their job. They are supposed to record the events of the story for whatever reason and while trapped in the book, Isaac could only record and not alter, apparently. So what does that mean? Baelfire’s death may not have been written by anyone. And if it wasn’t written and caused by anyone other than the writers and the Powers-That-Be, then it cannot be changed. Except for the three genies magical law breaking spell. And Nyx. Or time travel mumbo wumbo. But still. If they decide to bring him back, idk if the author would be much help. This is me being my own devil’s advocate now: Well, watcher. Rememeber when Regina talked to Isaac about page 23? He said it was something he was experimenting with. That sounds like he gets a say in what ways the story turns. So yeah. Idk. This show is just all too confusing to make sense of. The most any of us can do is just watch and see where it goes. And take happiness in the few remaining things we still have before the writers take it away *weeps over Rumbelle and ScarletQueen*
BUT if I’m right, I think a box of cookies is more than appropriate.
Goldn, you’ll get cookies, cakes, a few dozen bakeries, and a cute little dolphin.
I’m so excited about the potential of getting a pet dolphin!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
According to Natalie Abrams, one of the journalists who have screened the finale, we can rule out Neal/Baelfire coming back in the finale at the very least. Sorry:
Though many fans wished the Author rewrite could mean the resurrection of Baelfire, there is a very plausible explanation why that can’t happen—though he is brought up more than once.
Source: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/08/spoiler-room-scoop-once-bates-motel-castle-and-more
[/quote]Thanks Matt. 🙂 I read that interview earlier on the board. I’m ok with him not coming back this season, or even next season for that matter, as I didn’t see my theory playing out anytime soon. I’m still hoping we might see Bae in a flashback of Rumple’s new fake memories, but, I’m not counting on it. 🙁 I’ll be happy dancing if the latter does happens though. 🙂
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
urely they know how the fans feel about Baelfire and they showed us that Bae is Rumple’s true happy ending. I can’t help but seeing Bae as the end game in Rumple’s story. They are setting it up.
They do know. And a good portion of the fans have a strong dislike for Nealfire. So by your logic they aren’t setting anything up but they are doing what I thought they’d do: close the door on him once more just like they did in 322 with Rumple taking the memory potion
Going to have to disagree with your interpretations of my logic 🙂
1) There have been far too many mentions of Nealfire over the last few episodes for them to merely be acknowledging his loss. They could have done that long ago. The outcries from most fans about Neal’s death have long subsided and rather than ruffle those feathers again, I’m sure they’d know it’s best to let sleeping dogs lie. If they are bringing him back into the limelight, they got something up their sleeves.
2) There’s a reason Rumple told Robin that he didn’t identify with Neal as his son as Neal’s existence had been far too painful & lonely. I don’t believe for a moment that they were writing that so that Nealfire fans would accept his death. They are setting a story up for the future with Bae. They’ve been known to do this season’s in advance with LOST.
3) Had they really wanted to put closure on Nealfire they would have had Isaac say that NO quill or ink could rewrite the past. He didn’t. They have left the door open for the possibility of the quill & ink that created Rumple’s past to come back into play at some point. They’ve given us an actual loophole to the rule that magic can’t bring back the dead.
4) No scenes were more stirring than the potential reunion of father & son in The Return and again in Manhattan. RumFire reunions are the most emotional of all. They know this and I believe this is their ‘fireworks’ for the show’s finale.
5) If this author can change what he wrote, how do we know that there isn’t an author writing this author’s story and everyone else’s? He could always do revisions and change the direction of everyone’s course.
They are taking us into un-chartered territories with S5. New game, new rules. I will not close my mind to the possibilities, especially now that they’ve shown us a loophole. This loophole is a golden nugget to theorize with.
If I’m wrong, feel free to toss stale crackers at me BUT if I’m right, I think a box of cookies is more than appropriate. 🙂
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
What if it was a setup. What if it is Cora masquerading as Blue, or Cora somehow controlling Blue. We saw Cora appear as Blue in The Queen is Dead. There are a lot of similarities between the scenes of Blue with Baelfire and Blue with Snow. The other stories in The Return all involve set ups and deception…Snow was framed and David fell for it…Sidney and Regina were working to set up Emma…Gold was setting up Regina. It would not surprise me if the scene with Baelfire and Blue was a set up.
Cora didn’t exist back then. The events between Rumple, Bae & Blue occurred several centuries before Cora’s birth.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
If they had no intention of changing Rumple’s past, they would have had Isaac say, “NO quill or ink can change the past.” They didn’t. Instead they were ambiguous and left us with the fact that another quill & ink can in fact change Rumple’s past.
This current rewrite will not play out in the end of the finale, but that doesn’t mean another future rewrite won’t OR that perhaps the whole story we’ve been watching over the pat 4 seasons has been the result of an earlier author tampering with the book.
I know we don’t see eye to eye on this, but I’m keeping an open mind about this and I can see future possibilities. A&E were careful with their words and left us with a possibility of another quill & ink being able to change Rumple’s story. That in itself is something. 🙂
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Ok, so this Author’s quill and ink can only change the past that it created and A&E have confirmed that Isaac did not write Rumple & Bae’s earlier story. For me that says that there’s still hope for the future. If the quill and ink used to originally write Rumple & Bae’s past still exists somewhere, surely they can be used again to change Rumple & Bae’s past.
Don’t think it works that way, because Rumple and Isaac seemed to imply that the Author still had to abide by the laws of magic.
That’s not what I took from the conversation. Rumple: “Magic can’t bring back the dead.” Isaac: “No, it can’t. THIS quill and ink CAN only CHANGE a past IT has created.”
Isaac just admitted that his quill & ink can change the past of any story it created. It just can’t change Rumple’s because they were never used to write his story hundreds of years ago. We know how carefully Adam & Eddie choose their word and there’s a reason why they’ve told us Isaac isn’t the author who wrote Rumple & Bae’s original story. They are up to something.
Surely they know how the fans feel about Baelfire and they showed us that Bae is Rumple’s true happy ending. I can’t help but seeing Bae as the end game in Rumple’s story. They are setting it up.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
