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TheGoldenKey wrote: Another interesting aspect of the box is that it has the signs of The Alpha & The Omega. The beginning & the end. TIME.
GAH! can’t believe I missed that! (reads Greek) Ok, my theory is that something inside the box will speed up time and make PP age. This is what PP fears above everything else.
Excellent theorizing GoldenKey and RumplesGirl! I am so onboard with this theory. I also have mine own to add, which is somewhat related. Why did Rumple give his son such a strong name as Baelfire? It’s because Rumple feared turning out to be a coward like his own father. The first part of my theory is that Mr. Gold’s first name is the same name as his father, which we will learn in the flashback in 3×8 when we first see Rumple’s dad. Just as Mr. Gold gave himself a limp in SB as a painful reminder of his own cowardice, so I believe he called himself the same name as his father to remind himself what a coward he was for letting go of Baelfire. In 3×4, Peter Pan goads Rumple that Baelfire will never forgive Rumple because Rumple has still never yet forgiven his own father. This is a vicious pattern that seems to repeat. The next part of my theory has to do with how family cycles seem to repeat themselves and yet how individuals can break those nasty habits. Now according to Western views, time is linear. Yet, according to Eastern philosophy, time is cyclical without a beginning (alpha) or omega (end). Even though an individual’s life seems to flow in one direction, the family cycles get repeated. “The sins of the fathers are visited upon sons” is especially in the ‘Stiltskin family line. Peter Pan seems heavily interested in this fact, and he’s using it to exploit the weakness in the family line. Rumple never wanted to leave his own son fatherless as his own father did to him, but that is precisely what he did. Baelfire said he didn’t want to do to Henry what his father had done to him since abandonment the worst imaginable fate. So what is it going to take to break the ongoing cycle? Forgiveness between the father and the son. Peter Pan probably knows this but is hoping that Neal will never forgive Rumple (as we saw in 3×4). Yet, what PP may not have counted on is that Rumple may just learn to forgive his dad, in which case his nasty habit of doing the selfish thing may come to and end and we’ll see him choose to sacrifice himself for his son and grandson. Now back to the name Baelfire and it’s potential significance. I posted this in the 3×7 promo photo thread, but I’ll paste it here, too: This is all a bit random, but I was thinking about a possible connection between the name “Baelfire” and the series “A Wheel of Time.” In that series, baelfire is a kind of weapon or magic. According to A Wheel of Time Wiki:
“Since before the Breaking of the World, the use of balefire has been forbidden. The White Tower forbids us even to learn it. In the War of Power, the Forsaken and the Shadowsworn themselves used it only reluctantly.”
When a target is struck with balefire, its thread in the pattern is destroyed, in an amount proportional to the power of the balefire strike. This translates to the target’s existence being completely erased, chronologically in reverse. For example, should an Aes Sedai use balefire on an attacking bandit, the bandit’s action of attacking the Aes Sedai and anything leading up to the action of the attack would be erased; this would be determined by the power of the balefire attack. The stronger the balefire, the further back in time the object in question will be burned from the pattern. This can have serious consequences on the pattern; the use of an extremely powerful blast of balefire to destroy a great number of lives at once has been shown to produce an effect referred to as a “balescream,” the sound of the Pattern itself groaning under the strain of rearranging itself around such a large gap. An interesting side effect of using balefire is that anyone that causes the “reversal” of time will still remember all the events that were undone as if they had actually happened even if the effects themselves no longer exist.
Perhaps Baelfire will help his dad defeat Peter Pan using the box that Belle holding. Will they try to change the course of time? I’m not sure exactly where I’m going with this or even if Adam and Eddy were inspired by that series to give the son of Rumple a strong name like Baelfire, but it’s very interesting nonetheless. And then RG posted this tweet from Adam Horowitz, which was asked just an hour or so after I’d posted my own theory about the inspiration to use the name Baelfire and a nod to “The Wheel of Time” series:
Baelfire is “a good strong name” according to Rumplestiltskin and as Rumple knows, names carry huge significance. So what is the meaning of Baelfire’s name? Baelfire is Old English for bonfire. What lights the way home? The flame that lights up Baelfire’s constellation map! Also, Baelfire used a match to scare away the Shadow in 2×21 since the shadow fears light. I’m thinking we’ll see Neal, Emma and Hook use fire to fight the shadows in the Dark Hollow according to the promo. I’m also thinking that NL is perpetually nighttime because the Shadow has grown so strong that it drowns out daylight in present-day NL. Once the Shadow is defeated, daylight will return. I love both theories RG and Slurpeez!
Slurpeez, I completely love where you are going with the “sins of the father”. We’ve got 3 generations (possibly 4 if Colin is still alive in NL, if he’s Pan or if he’s the Shadow). Makes so much sense.
As well, I’m completely with you on the origins of Baelfire’s name and have been on board with the Wheel of Time theme resounding throughout OUAT since S1. Note again, the Frozen Wheel from Lost is in fact, a wheel of time.
Gosh it’s great to be back theorizing with the group. 🙂 So much good stuff going on here ladies. Woohoo!!!
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
It releases the smoke monster….oh wait wrong show.
Not really. Again, K&H said this season will be a lot like S4 or Lost. The spring on NL contains the power of NL and if one drinks from it they can never leave. In Lost, the healing springs, which healed Sayid, came from the heart of the island. The heart was dangerous as it contained high levels of electromagnetism, light and water. Jacob and his brother were told never to go follow the water into the groto/light or they would suffer a “fate worse than death”. When Jacob threw his brother in, he became Smokie (. MIB). MIB could never leave the island.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Is Once taking a note from Hellraiser?
There was a puzzle box in that movie that i believe could either open up portals into a hell dimension where the person would be trapped and tortured forever…. Oh my god… that’s what Rumpel wants to do to Pan 
a fate WORSE than death!!!! *Ive never seen the movie so I could be wrong >> Must admit I’ve never seen the Hellraiser movies nor have I read the books. Certainly sounds like it could be. Maybe that’s where Rumple will send all the shadows. I like this idea though. Good catch!
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Charming isn’t out of the woods yet. He still can’t leave NL without dying. We know he comes back to SB. Does something go astray? I know I was kidding about Snookers (Snow/Hook) but Charming isn’t out of the woods yet. Do we know if they have announced which male heart throb was going to be killed off in a series yet for another huge role?
David Anders tweeted on the 31st that he had HUGE news but couldn’t share because of contractual obligations. He recently tweeted a joke that started with “I’m done with Sundays”. Who knows……
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Sounds like Pino to me. We have the tweeted pic of his hat, we know he first ran off from school and joined Stomboli’s puppet show (circus) and he is a child (little people). Sounds too easy though.
Here’s my crackish (loving that word now) theory. All in good fun of course 😉 It’s Charming. He dies but not before impregnating Snow. Snow, now all alone, harassed and stalked by Whale, and having to raise her child alone, leans on her new BFF Hook, to handle Whale and lend his love and support. That’s right, there’s a new ship in town. Snookers. PS can’t take credit for the name 😉
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Dylan Schmid is a great kid and gave a fantastic interview. You can tell by his acting that he really has been paying attention to RC. I do believe Barbara Barnett did a live interview with him tonight. Just going to listen to it now.
I so hope they plan on doing a few episodes showing Bae arriving in our world from NL. That would be fun.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
TheGoldenKey wrote: I’m liking the PapaPan theory. Not sold on it and still leaning towards Pan being his BFF or Bro but still liking it, nevertheless.
See I’m the opposite. I’m like 99.9% sold on TeamBrothers. To have it be father/son would just be a level of weird that I don’t think A and E want to go for, for sake of the casual audience. The other .01% of me thinks they were best friends growing up in the same village. But then I go back to Barrie’s original text and the fact that Peter has a younger brother.
Yes, he did have a baby brother. I think that was in the book Peter Pan in Kensington Gardens and Queen Mab let him go home only to find out that his mother had forgotten him and had replaced him with a new baby. 🙁
As I said, I’m still leaning in favour of Pan being his brother, especially with all the Lost nods, but I can’t rule out the possibility of him being his father, his BFF or an imaginary friend.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
TheGoldenKey wrote: What does craskish mean?
Crackish (ADJ) from the noun “crack” meaning a theory that will never come true because it’s so outlandish but it’s fun to discuss. For example Crack theory Numero Uno of the Summer 2013: Undead Milah Mermaid.
Thanks RG. 🙂 That’s what I kinda thought it meant.
In my mind, no theory is crackish unless it’s been dispelled by writers/creators/canon. 😉 Frankie proved that and this series is all about story books, fantasy and magic, so any theory goes. 🙂 I’m liking the PapaPan theory. Not sold on it and still leaning towards Pan being his BFF or Bro but still liking it, nevertheless.
Undead Milah Mermaid? LOL! That does sound like fun! Now I’m going to have to dig around to find it and give it a read.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
I was posting about that earlier today on this thread: https://oncepodcast.com/forums/topic/308-flashback-details/page/6/
Pan had his doll, called him Laddie when they met up in Hamelin and now cooking him his favourite breakfast.
I’m still torn between friend, brother or father. The doll would indicate friend as it was a nod to LOST when the two wooden dolls were given to Ben Linus on his 9th birthday by his friend Annie. She carved both dolls and painted them blue and white.
The pied cloak reminded my of Joseph and the Technicoloured Dreamcoat. Joseph was abandoned by his brothers and sold into slavery. Joseph was a seer who had visions in his dreams and read other’s dreams. Note that Joseph’s father was Jacob and had his own issue with his brother Esau (Remind anyone of Jacob and MIB on LOST?)
Pan calling Rumple Laddie is something an older man would call a younger one. Now the eggs in the basket. Sounds so fatherly.
So many things pointing in all three directions. Urrrgggghhh!!!!!
I just finished watching Deathly Hollows: Part II as someone over on FB suggested the Voldermort/Potter connection. Did Rumple hide a part of himself in Pan and use Pan as an Horcrux or vice versa? Funny how Rumple’s FATE was to become the Dark One.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
