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I’ve also wondered if Pan is not even Rumple’s father. We all know Rumple has the capability of turning back time as he’s offered to do so for both Smee & Neal. Why wouldn’t Pan or NL have the same magical capabilities? Initially, they filmed Colin as running away from debtors and being murdered. They axed that. But, what if Colin were poisoned with nightshade and was healed with waters from the healing spring and now forced to stay in NL? What if Colin, haven’t felt so overwhelmed & burdened with the responsibilities of parenting, wished that he had never grown up and turned back the clock? Pan has kept Rumple’s childhood doll; when Pan and Rumple first meet, Pan calls him “laddie” (spl??). Certainly implies an older man talking to a much younger man. They know so much about each other’s past. Now we’ve got Pan cooking up Rumple’s favourite breakfast. Their scenes are just gushing with so much familiarity between them. So, I’m torn between brothers or father and son.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
TheGoldenKey wrote: I was chatting with Kellyn1604 this evening. She seems to think that the guy with the gun is Dr. Whale. He always wears suits; wants nothing more than to get home to his brother in A World Without Colour; and standing next to Belle is Ariel, a realm jumper.
David Anders tweeted about going to shoot for ep 9, but I don’t recall him having tweeted about heading to Vancouver for any eps before that. I’m pretty sure this is the ep where the red car, driven by Glasses and Keychain, believed to be the Darling Bros, was sighted in Steveston. The casting calls for those characters said they’d suffered years of servitude to Pan. Some of us think they were coerced into working for Pan under threat of harm to Wendy, who is being held prisoner in NL. I think it fits for the long suffering Darling brothers to have been spying on the goings on, and to hold Belle and Ariel hostage at gunpoint to demand, “If your people are getting out of NL alive, so is our sister.” I’d been thinking that if Wendy was in the other hanging cage, Neal would have discovered that, but he hasn’t mentioned it, so it’s unlikely, which means that they don’t yet know that Wendy is trapped there. Sending a message back with Ariel, from the Darling Bros, could explain how they discover she’s there, and that’s how she ends up on the docks with the rest of them in 310.
Glasses and Keychains? Red car? Why am I suddenly thinking of Starsky & Hutch. 🙂 Seriously though, where can I find the casting calls for each episode? I looked under the threads for S3x07 Dark Hollow and couldn’t find any here? Please and thank you. 🙂
I agree that Neal seemed to be asleep and wouldn’t have realized who was in the other cage.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
I was thrilled with Ariel but disappointed with Eric. His performance seemed plastic to me and he seemed light in the loafers the way he was prancing around the dance floor. I dunno and it’s probably only me but he’s just not my cup of tea. Too whimpy.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
There’s another interesting theory put out by Marietta on the FB OUAT Board that perhaps Pan is an alternate personality of Rumple, based on his childhood memories. Tonight’s episode certainly gives it food for thought as killing Pan results in the death of Rumple. Makes me think of the movie Fight Club only because the realms have magic, imaginary friends become real in NL. Just thought I’d throw her theory out there because it’s something to chew on.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
I was chatting with Kellyn1604 this evening. She seems to think that the guy with the gun is Dr. Whale. He always wears suits; wants nothing more than to get home to his brother in A World Without Colour; and standing next to Belle is Ariel, a realm jumper.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
TheGoldenKey wrote: Slurpeez!!!!!
(I’m waving and smiling but where are all the emoticons???? Like you, I’m still not 100% sold on the brothers. I find so little has been given out in terms of clues this season, it’s really hard to form a theory with clues/nods/canon to back it up. They did compare Pan to Kurtz in Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness. Apocalypse Now was based on that book and Marlon Brando played Colonel Kurtz. He deserted his army and became a murderous savage. Think I’ll throw the movie on and see if I can pick up anything. Never viewed it before from a fairy tale aspect. That’s something new. LOL! PS I may be repeated things already said. Please, “don’t be a Neal” and forgive me I will try to read things but I’ve got months of catching up to do. 
Good to have you around the forums, GoldenKey! You always offer great insights.
As far as “Heart of Darkness” goes, I think Adam and Eddy said their version of PP has actually been influenced by that novel. Jane Espenson also said their version of the Lost Boys were inspired by “Lord of the Flies” by William Golding. Thanks, my friend 🙂 Nice to be back & hopefully once this head cold has run its course & can play a little more often. 🙂
I truly hope they don’t go as dark as LOTF did, but you never know with these creators and writers. I shudder when I think about the prospects and young Henry. Poor Henry! Yikes!
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
PriceofMagic wrote: I think the 308 appearance of Rumple’s father will be flashback whilst the 311 appearance will be Rumple finally confronting and overcoming his abandonment issues. We’ve had Vision Belle so why not have Viision Rumple’s dad. I think the fact they mentioned the pied cloak in 304 could be so people didn’t think it was the technicolour dreamcoat. Once is trying to stay away from religious connotations.
Maybe Vision!Belle and Vision!Dad at the same time, the angel and the devil motif so to speak.
OOOOHHH! I like that!!! What fun that would be to watch!
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
I think the 308 appearance of Rumple’s father will be flashback whilst the 311 appearance will be Rumple finally confronting and overcoming his abandonment issues. We’ve had Vision Belle so why not have Viision Rumple’s dad. I think the fact they mentioned the pied cloak in 304 could be so people didn’t think it was the technicolour dreamcoat. Once is trying to stay away from religious connotations.
Regarding Once staying away from religious connotations, do you really think so, Price of Magic? I haven’t read anything in regards to that but would be very grateful if you could share some links with me. 🙂
I guess my thinking is that K&H did write for Lost and that was loaded with it. They are big on the brother against brother aspect and light against dark (MIB/Jacob LOST = Jacob/Esau,Old Testament). They also said to think LOST S4 in relation to this S3 of OUAT. So, I guess that’s why Joseph jumped out at me. They don’t seem afraid to tackle anything as we saw from Sleeping Warrior.
I’m most likely way off base, but it’s interesting to hear & share other people’s thoughts and theories on the subject. 🙂
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Good luck catching up, GoldenKey. Sometimes I can barely keep caught up, and I’m here every day.
TheGoldenKey wrote: Surprised no one has mentioned his coat of many colours.
I honestly hadn’t given it a second thought, because the Pied Piper is meant to wear pied clothing, which is meant to be patches of various colours.
TheGoldenKey wrote: Joseph was a seer who had dreams and could read other people’s dreams. He was also nearly murdered by his brothers, who were very jealous of him, and was sold into slavery by them. So, we’ve got a seer who dreams and interprets dreams as well as a betrayal by his brothers. Is Pan a seer and is he Rumple’s brother?
Though I hadn’t considered the “cloak of many colours” thing, it’s an interesting point you make about Joseph and the dreams. Pan told Rumple that children visited NL in their dreams. And yes, I’ve always figured Pan either was a Seer himself, or had access to a Seer, (now starting to think it’s the former). and yes, along with RG, I’ve been a major player for TeamBrothers for a while now.
TheGoldenKey wrote: I also wonder if maybe Pan didn’t murder Rumple’s father, Colin. Perhaps that’s why Rumple is so very fearful of Pan.
I’ve wondered if PapaStiiltskin might be being held captive in NL, based on he spoiler that he’s meant to be in both 308 and 311, and I’m guessing 311 will be lots of present day NL action. My current headcanon is that Rumple and Pan’s mother died giving birth to Rumple, who became the favoured child, who was resented and bullied by his older brother, who eventually had had enough and buggered off to NL. Peter Pan leaving for NL because he felt his parents had replaced him with a new child is directly from Barrie’s original. Rumple’s father “abandoning” him may well have been Pan kidnapping him, because he believed that baby brother had “stolen” him, so he stole him back. Perhaps Pan has been able to force their father to watch as his favoured son’s life went to hell. (I’m thinking something like Tolkien’s Children of Hurin, which, long, tragic story short: Morgoth cursed Hurin’s family, captured Hurin, sat him on the side of a mountain and give him the gift of sight so he could be tortured as he watched the cursed lives of his wife and children play out. His son, Turin, had an especially angst ridden, cursed life, not cursed in the same sense that Rumple was, but still cursed in a way that basically destroyed him.)
Hi Phee!!!! 🙂
Gosh, I forget how to quote individual paragraphs and my head is floating this morning with a terrible head cold, so please bear with my responses being muddled into one long paragraph (and run on sentences too, hehehe.
Phee, that is true about Peter in the original novel. He went to go home but saw his mother in the nursery with a new baby so he turned and left. That certainly does play into your theory, which I quite like. 🙂 I’ve read The Hobbit, LOTR, and The Silmarillion (put together by his son) but haven’t had an opportunity to read much of his poetry. Will try to find that online today. Sounds interesting and love how it fits into your theory. 🙂
Not sure if I’m alone in this, but I find there is so little to work with in terms of clues etc. Suffering from a sever case of “theorist block” LOL! This season sure is exciting though. 🙂
Nice to be chatting with you again Phee and with all the others. 🙂
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Slurpeez!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂 (I’m waving and smiling but where are all the emoticons????
Like you, I’m still not 100% sold on the brothers. I find so little has been given out in terms of clues this season, it’s really hard to form a theory with clues/nods/canon to back it up.
They did compare Pan to Kurtz in Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness. Apocalypse Now was based on that book and Marlon Brando played Colonel Kurtz. He deserted his army and became a murderous savage.
Think I’ll throw the movie on and see if I can pick up anything. Never viewed it before from a fairy tale aspect. That’s something new. LOL!
PS I may be repeated things already said. Please, “don’t be a Neal” and forgive me 🙂 I will try to read things but I’ve got months of catching up to do. 😉
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
