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Thank you, Matt. 🙂 I miss theorizing. The whole Nealfire thing kinda put me off the show and I’m also one of the few that isn’t thrilled about Frozen either.
I hope if they delve into Arthurian Legend and the Holy Grail, they make it more than one episode. In my mind, there’s so much more of a story to tell with that than Frozen.
Can’t help but see the comparison of leg wounds between Rumple and The Fisher King. As well, we’ve already seen a Chimera & an Yaoguaiin in OUAT & a Bandersnatch in OUATW. Who knows, maybe we’ll see a Questing Beast. 🙂
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Based on the casting call here are some things to consider: Having read so many Arthurian stories, watched films & TV series and have seen Camelot so many times (lucky to have seen Richard Harris twice), it’s got my curiosity peaked.
Earliest stories claim that Perceval/Percival found the Grail and healed the Fisher King. In later stories, they say that he failed to ask the right question and was denied the Grail. He returned in later years, along with Galahad and Bors and they say it was Galahad who found it and healed the Fisher King. Galahad was the illegitimate son of Lancelot & Elaine, the daughter of the Fisher King
Casting call could certainly describe King Pellinore, whose life was spent on the hunt for the Questing Beast. He was an older Knight of the Round Table and trusted friend & counsellor of King Arthur, especially in the days that Merlin disappeared when he trapped by Nimue.
Don Quixote (Man of LaMancha) would be fun but I don’t think they’d go that route. But then, who knows with these guys.
A few things to consider. Rumple has the Grail in his castle. Rumple has a wound to his leg that hasn’t healed. So did the Fisher King. Is Rumple the Fisher King, the guardian of the Holy Grail? If so, that would rule out Lancelot who was still a young man at the time of the curse and his illegitimate son, Galahad, who would have only been a child. Perhaps, Rumple, hearing the stories of how the Fisher King’s leg wound was healed by the Grail, seeks it out for himself.. Maybe, they’ll go with Perceval finding it, returning it to King Arthur’s court and the twist will be, instead of Perceval retiring in an Abbey and the Grail disappearing, Rumple steals it from an aging Perceval. Or, perhaps Rumple steals it from King Arthur himself.
I’m calling that it’s a twist of the Fisher King, and that Rumple is the Fisher King and he steals the Grail from King Arthur’s Court and that King Arthur is the knight.
So many ways this story can go.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Alright, another question (and seriously, if people have others, feel free to ask. I’m not an evil dictator who is control of aLL THE THINGS) Do you think the lack of Neal’s presence in S4 will affect the show–either storyline wise or character wise? OR is this going to be like Graham–sad and shocking when it happened, but ultimately the characters will fail to mention of invoke his name/memory again?
Last week, I spoke to someone who works on the set. Can’t state who it was or his/her’s position. I was told that they would be dwelling on the repercussions of Neal’s death and how this affects Rumple and that more will be explained. Not sure that I can trust this information and even if it is correct, I also know that K&H told NF fans to have hope for the finale in regards to how crushed we were re: Neal’s death. Well, we all know how that turned out as K&H seem to have little understanding of what hope meant for NF fans.
Let’s hope that our voices have been heard, in regards to how important we feel NF’s character was to the storyline, and they do make an effort to go more into detail in S4 and address our concerns.
I was a HUGE Baelfire fan and thought his storyline was an important one. My hope had always been that we’d explore more of his journeys, over the past few centuries. As an adult Neal, I also thought there was room for so much development. He could have turned out to be any other FT character based on travels throughout many other realms. K&H believe that NF was just an avenue to explore in terms of what motivated one of the main protagonists of the show, Rumple. His death is meant to show how it further affects Rumple and his actions, ongoing into S4. I understand this, as much as it disappoints me, as fans saw Baelfire as much more than just a vehicle for Rumple.
Bae/Neal was a good hearted man who sacrificed his happiness with the Darlings to save their family. He sacrificed his happiness with Emma, to save Storybrooke. He sacrificed being with his son, to save Emma from going through the portal. He sacrificed his life to save Storybrooke once again, against Zelena, (weak writing there). Yes, he had his flaws but on the whole, he was a good man with a loving heart.
As Jenna-b posted, I would have loved to see him dabble in magic – good magic. A bold move would have been to see his F/T character as Merlin. Merlin regressed in age. We could have shown a story arc of an adult Neal, before he met Emma, meeting up with Arthur and being entrapped with Nimue. A love story line between Neal/Merlin and Nimue (also known as Lady of the Lake) would have been refreshing. The best happy ending would have been finally regressing to a teenage Baelfire and Rumple finally being able to enjoy his time with his son. Nimue (who could be both good and bad) could have been the Dark Fairy who created the first Dark One, and Neal’s demise did not need to be death, but rather being held by her (as was Merlin) for opening the Dark One’s Vault. A little twist on the actual story where she held Merlin when Arthur needed him most during his trying times with Lancelot, Guinevere & the final war. Not saying that this is the best storyline (lots of loopholes but loopholes can be plugged up), just suggesting that there was more than enough room to show a better storyline for this character.
PS pls excuse the spelling, etc. still half asleep and my morning cuppa isn’t opening my eyes yet. 🙂
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Going to chirp in with my two cents worth. While this is still my forum of choice and there are many great people here, it has changed over the past year or so and has become more or less a shipping forum.
Long gone are the interesting conversations about theorizing. Ships have taken over here as they have on most other forums/boards. If we are to be honest here, there are some (not everyone) that are obsessed by their ships. Personally, it’s been a real turn off for me and I’m finding myself frequenting the forums less and less. I’d even go one step further and admit that the obsessiveness over shipping, EVERYWHERE out in the fandom, continues to distance me from the show.
I think the writers are mostly to blame. They seem to be writing for the ships. They aren’t giving fans, who love to theorize, anything to go on these days.
The suggestion has been made, here in this thread, that one has only to stay away from the shipping threads. However, as Myril pointed out, when chatting about other “characters” on appropriate discussion threads, responses are made in relation to ships. There seems to be no way of getting away from it. I would also agree with her, that while everything seems to be quiet on the western fronts, there is no denying that this group is still suffering through a huge rift between SF and CS ships, as are all other forums, regardless of how polite everyone is being. It’s like we are walking around on our tippy toes.
I miss the days of long discussions, taking every little word K&H have uttered and using them to theorize & support out theories in regards to who a specific character may end up being (ex. AWB, Baelfire, Neal, Whale, Pan, Z, etc.). Again, I think this is the writers’ fault as they seem so intent on writer about ships.
This is just my personal opinion of course, but if I am going to be honest, I have to admit that the shipping is driving me crazy and turning me off the forums and the show.
Grabbing a larger beach umbrella and waiting for the tomatoes to hit. 🙂
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Just popping in to say hello. Just finished my weekly tweet to Adam telling him that I won’t be watching unless they bring back Neal permanently. It may mean nothing and only be one little tweet but at least I’m heard and I get to vent. We should be flooding his twitter account with tweets like this every Sunday. See Adam, I do have hope and believe in happy endings. My happy ending is Baelfire and I won’t give up.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
I’m not sure if I can still watch. I’m not really paying attention to spoilers and I haven’t looked at any sneak peeks. What’s even sadder is that I’ve lost interest; I really have.
I know what you mean. I made the mistake of looking in the “Who’s Filming Now” thread. I wish I hadn’t. I haven’t watched the sneak peeks for 3×16 nor will I tune in live. I probably won’t watch the rest of the season. It’s not out of any malice. It’s more like I lost interest and faith in the narrative and the message of the story. Frankly, I think the show has been headed in a downward trajectory for quite a while now. The main reason I held on was my hope in Neal getting a second chance. I realize that Neal was the main reason I enjoyed parts of S2. All of my favorite episodes included Neal: “Tallahassee,” “Manhattan” and “Second Start to the Right.” The rest of S2 was just average, nothing special. S3a should have been exciting. Neal fighting to get back to Emma and Henry. Neal fighting for his second chance. Hook going head to head with Peter Pan. It was Neverland for Pete’s sake! Yet, in the end, it was a big let down. Rumple’s sacrifice proved partially in vain because Neal didn’t get that second chance at happiness. At least Belle survived. Yet, Rumple said Neal was his happy ending. No matter how much Rumple loves Belle, he’ll never get have full happiness without his son. And the fact is, Emma lost her true love. That’s the price of her being the savior. Henry doesn’t get to know his dad. So much of the story has lost it’s magic for me. I want Emma to be happy. I want Regina to get her second chance. But that is lessened for me knowing that not everybody gets a second chance. The good and deserving parish while the unrepentant get their happy endings. That is not the show I was rooting for and why I’ve lost my desire to watch. Once used to be an outlet, and now I need an escape from my former escape.
Slurpeez, you’ve read my thoughts and I couldn’t have put it more eloquently. When they killed Bae they killed what made their show so very special.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
I’m not sure if I can still watch. I’m not really paying attention to spoilers and I haven’t looked at any sneak peeks. What’s even sadder is that I’ve lost interest; I really have.
I’m trying to regain it by posting and stuff, but I just don’t feel the same about the show.
Frankly, I’m tired of all TV shows killing off main cast for the sake of sensationalism. K&H really disappointed me. They have for a while now.
For me, it’s the principle of thing. I’m mad, I will never accept this death because it just doesn’t make sense. Because of this, I’ll hate myself for tuning in and giving them a rating. By abstaining, it at least gives me some satisfaction that one less point in the ratings will make that tiny difference. I want them to hear the fandom loud and clear and know that there are consequences when you treat fans so poorly. Like I said, it’s the principle of the thing, but maybe like Neal, I’ll do a complete 180 from who I am and watch. Doubtful though, as ABC & K&H have handled it all so poorly. I think Colin live tweeting when MRJ got knocked off was the final nail in the coffin for me. That spoke volumes and I won’t soon forget how that made Neal or SF fans feel.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Sorry @TheGoldenKey maybe I’ve misread or misunderstood something in your opening post, but you wrote
Back in S1x19 The Return, Blue clearly tells Baelfire that what ails his father isn’t from this world (meaning Dark Curse isn’t from the EF).
Now I quoted, what the Blue Fairy said in that episode and she said definitely: It IS specific to the Enchanted Forest, to “our realm” to quote her again, and she and Bae were in the EF at that moment, or in less poetic words: The Dark One’s power IS from the Enchanted Forest. The vault is in the Enchanted Forest. Of course you can assume, the Blue Fairy is not from the Enchanted Forest and she was talking about “our” aka the Fairies’ realm, but I don’t assume that. So were is the Blue Fairy’s statement in contradiction of what we saw past episode? She says furthermore, that “his powers don’t belong” in their realm. You read that differently, as the power doesn’t come from the Enchanted Forest, okay. As I read what the Blue Fairy said, the powers of the Dark One not only can come but do come from the Enchanted Forest (and can work in any land with magic). But the only way to get rid off them is by leaving and live in a land without magic (or to get killed and thus transfering the power to someone else, but the Blue Fairy doesn’t talk about that option). My opinion: The Blue Fairy DIDN’T lie, NOR did the writers mess up at this point. To me “not come from” or “is not from” and “not belong to” is not the same wording and has a very different meaning, and the latter is what is written in the script. Can we agree on having a different point of view here? edit to clarify
No need to be sorry. I went back and watched and you are correct. She did say IS SPECIFIC. Don’t know why I’ve always hung on her saying “ISN’T” but regardless, I’ve been mistaken and thank you for pointing that out.
That also changes the context of the statement “not belong to”. In accord with you on that.
Just curious, why the name change Myril? Your first response was under another name of Spoekenkieker, I believe that’s German, and now you’re responding as Myril. Gosh, we haven’t heard from you in quite some time and here you are on popping up on my thread. I’ll have to post more often if it brings you out of hibernation. 😉 Welcome back Myril.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
Have to disagree here. K&H aren very specific in regards to the words they use and hints they throw out for the ardent viewer. That’s why so many interviews after the show, all the official podcasts last season, etc.
Either they are dropping the ball and missing stuff or someone is lying.
As much as I love the sneaky fairy theory about Blue and have never gone down that path before, I’m starting to reconsider it. Especially in lieu of what came out Sunday.
We’ve all been saying for nearly 3 seasons now that the Dark One’s Curse came from outside the realm of SB only to now hear that the Dark One was born out of the darkness and made in the vault that IS in the EF. That’s huge!
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
They might have messed up there I guess. But where Again are we told that Blue is not able to tell lies? and by whom? I dont remember that.
Sherazade, in S1x19 The Return, after Bae disappears through the vortex and Rumple is left alone and he calls on Blue, they can’t into an argument. Rumple keeps asking her if there’s a way and she says no (because she’s used the last magical bean). He calls her a liar and she says she’s not lying because Fairies can’t lie.
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
