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The “laddie” threw me a bit, because part of my difficulty reconciling the idea of Peter and Rumple being related by blood was the vast disparity between their names and accents- Peter being distinctly English and Rumple having much more of a Scottish flare (although some of that is easily attributed to Carlyle himself, they would have had no reason in season 1 to tell him to stifle the accent, and now they can’t just hand wave it away). But the very Scottish “laddie” hints that Peter may have undergone some different name/language changes. He could have started as Peter, then adopted the more localized type of speech when he was around young Rumple- and by dropping the sarcastic “laddie” he may have been reminding Rumple that he (Peter) was able to pick up and drop a persona at the drop of a hat.
I personally am not ready to throw my lot in with any one theory. I feel like there are so many possibilities and I’m having more fun exploring them all rather than picking one. 🙂
[adrotate group="5"]"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
schandlich, I’m with you. While I can’t deny there is very likely a “brotherly” connection between the two- I don’t think they are biological brothers. With all the wars and conflict between kingdoms, it’s not impossible for an orphan from another country (different style of name and accent) to have ended up in the home of a kindly couple who had not (yet) had a son of their own.
We have so many blood ties in this show, I think we’re due for another step-family connection.
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
It looks like it’s about time to dust off this thread. :3
I was examining Rumple’s season 3 look, and while I appreciate the idea of a Half-Gold-Half-Dark One combo (as do the makeup team and Carlyle, I’m sure) I found that it just wasn’t “working” for me. I couldn’t put my finger on it, but the look as a whole was just falling flat. After considering it and studying the costume a bit, I think I figured out why it felt this way, and it actually gave me a bit of material to muse on and I thought I’d share.
I tried to figure out what it was about this new outfit that didn’t make it pop like so many of the others. There are elements of it that seem familiar- the big coat, the reptile skin, the tight pants… so why is this one different? The thought occurred to me during “The Lost Girl” as I watched Rumplestiltskin make his way through the jungle- I realized, in the dark of night and thick vegetation, it was difficult to see him. That alone made a huge difference. When I think of all of Rumple’s “Dark One” outfits from the past, the main feature was that they were all a form of “peacocking”. The colors, the fabrics, the outlandish silhouettes all drew attention to him and helped paint him as a formidable foe, someone who was just waiting for a challenge. Even the black outfits had crazy details, like the spikes in the first scene of ‘Skin Deep’.(Very different from Zoso, I may as well add- although we don’t know how much control he had over his clothing, I think it’s safe to say he was trying to be discreet.) While I don’t think you’re likely to find anyone in the Enchanted Forest who thought the Dark One was a style icon, I think it’s safe to say that Rumple was dressing for his audience, doing his best to paint a picture of a sly villain so that he might play it well.
So why don the villain’s costume now? And such a subdued one at that? Well to answer the second question first, Rumple isn’t stupid. He knows he’s outgunned and he’s going to have to work quickly, quietly, and drawing as little of Peter’s attention as possible (good luck). Like I said, I had a hard time making him out on screen against the dark background. Even though he’s taken up the mantle of the Dark One again, he’s still trying to lay low- the dark colors are about as close to camouflage as we’re likely to see him wear. Why wear the outfit at all? Well, of course there will be the occasional encounter with a Lost Boy or two, but they don’t seem too impressed at it probably wouldn’t matter what Rumple was wearing. No, I think more likely the coat is for Rumplestiltskin himself. It’s been a while since he was “The Dark One” and he spent some of that time trying to outright bury that part of his past, even if it wasn’t successful. Taking up the cowl (to borrow a Batman metaphor) is a physical and real way to reassure himself that he is still capable of being ruthless and has the ability to do what needs to be done, no matter what the cost.
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
I think that the major theme of this season is definitely “belief”- and that we’re going to see a lot of failure in that regard before we see much success.
Regarding Belle, I think she is purely a manifestation of Rumple’s feelings and thoughts, powered by his imagination, which seems to run a bit wild when he’s not reigning it in. This mirage has appeared to him when he needed it most, to provide him with encouragement, but she doesn’t know anything he doesn’t know (the barrier is fine, why shouldn’t it be- this Belle is here to provide you with peace of mind), which is the interesting bit.
You see, Rumple knows exactly what Belle thinks of him, even if he doesn’t understand why and claims not to believe it himself. But the Belle he manifested still came from within him, so perhaps that means that deep, deep down- there is a part of him that thinks she could be right.
Just as I think Peter has been toying with Emma to make her believe the worst of herself is the truest of herself, I think he is doing the same thing with Rumple. It’s sort of a layered thing. With Emma I think she’ll travel the following path:
Okay, fine, I’m the Savior. I admitted it! (She admits this reservedly, but it’s not big news.) >>>
I’m an orphan! The pain! (She’s vulnerable and Pan has her where he wants her)>>>
No… wait… forget that. I am strong, I have a family- I am a kick-butt warrior Princess! (She comes around and realizes her personal strength due to those supporting her.)Likewise, I think Rumple will follow a similar path.
I’m the Dark One (He tried to deny this part of himself for the good of others, but had to take up the mantle again)
I’m a coward (Not a pleasant thing to admit, but this is hardly breaking news and those who know him already know this)
I’m a coward because I’m afraid of being alone/rejected (Probably stemming from the parental abandonment- which Peter is trying to drudge up via the doll- this is Rumple at his weakest)
Someone, somewhere believes I am good and worthwhile (Belle provides him with strength, but more importantly – because he was able to conjure up a version of her that believes in him, he realizes that some part of him believes in himself as well, and we have a “you had the power all along” moment. Also… family?)So I guess I’m saying, this Belle isn’t the heroine this Rumple deserves, but she’s the heroine he needs?
(Quick, to the Bookmobile!)"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
I feel like this season we’ll be getting Shadow 101 lessons like last year was Hearts. Apparently if you yank a shadow out of someone’s back, it kills them (a la Greg), but if you cut it off around the feet (WONDERFUL nod to Peter Pan I might add since they were always trying to reattach his shadow from his foot), then you can control it and send it off to do things for you. Very interesting indeed!
Maybe if your shadow is taken by force then you die; but if you offer up your shadow in service to Pan or carve it out yourself, then you get to live.
Not unlike hearts in the enchanted forest, then?
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
Just hopping in for a quick note-
I don’t think Peter and Rumple are brothers. The interaction with the doll especially made me feel like that was a Rumple-only backstory, and the doll itself is just part of a mind game Peter is playing with Rumple, trying to weaken him as he did with Emma.
But RG, you asked an interesting question. Who *did* remove Peter’s shadow?
What if it was Rumple? He seemed to know just what to do with the dagger and was able to remove the shadow quickly, maybe indicating that he’s done it before? Perhaps we’ve looked at this in the wrong direction. Peter isn’t the original Dark One (as the idea has been floating around) but perhaps Rumple created Peter? Perhaps Neverland and Peter’s evil are all part of a bargain gone wrong? I’m wondering if there isn’t a scenario where Rumple made a bargain to have Peter’s shadow seek out Bae (since it could travel to our world) but perhaps Peter twisted that bargain around, thereby creating some of the animosity between them. After all if Peter was the one that caused a deal to go sour, it would explain why he was friendly and cordial and Rumple was furious. Peter lost nothing and has no reason to be mad as he “won” in a bargain against the Dark One.
I could also see this being a situation that mirrored the Hook-Bae relationship. Perhaps the young and not-evil Peter was befriended or quasi-adopted by Rumple, or at least trusted. Perhaps this is just after losing Bae, when Rumple wasn’t the hilariously evil baddie we love and know- his trickster persona having not been fully developed yet. If the two met, and Rumple trusted him, it’s possible he may have shared the story of his own upbringing with a still-human-not-yet-immortal-and-evil Peter.
Just a thought from a different angle.
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
I had a somewhat different read of the puzzle- and think there was a more sinister reasoning behind it. Peter is of course, incredibly powerful in Neverland, but I think his power manifests itself in a different way. He’s not shooting fireballs or creating curses- his magic takes another form, one that preys on the young and immature. I mean this in a slightly less than literal way, I don’t just mean agewise, but rather in regards to the maturity and progression of ones self development.
For example, the Peter Pan of the story had the Lost Boys. Boys who were convinced to come to his side because of a mutual disdain for the grown up world that had wronged them one way or another. Maybe they felt their parents didn’t love them, or that they had been abandoned in some other way. Peter was giving them a place to go, but by doing so was also allowing them to play the victim and run away from their fears and problems rather than maturing and confronting them.
Why is this relevant to Emma? To my way of seeing, the map wasn’t a gift, it was the first of a number of attacks. Emma herself says that being the Savior is the last thing she wanted to admit and the thing she’d hidden from herself the most. But being an orphan? This is no great secret and her abandonment issues are the main reason for the major chip on her shoulder- but we’ve seen her slowly grow out of those feelings as she has started to feel she was part of an actual family.
So why would Peter bring this up? Again, it’s part of his ploy, and it’s a multi-pronged attack. First, he’s forcing her to remember painful memories. Those feelings are also ones that will alienate her from her parents, destabilizing the group and her role as leader. Thirdly, by telling her the map would only reveal itself when she admitted who she really was, he forces the view that she “really is” just an orphan, when that is a viewpoint created just to break her down and destroy the personal growth she’s had since coming to Storybrooke.
(Likewise, I think Peter is preying on Henry’s self doubts behind the scenes. As Henry is alone and doesn’t have his family around him to help, when we see him meet the group- he will probably be in a very dark and lonely place.)
Peter’s weapons and power are subtle, and I don’t think we’ve seen the end of it. He’s clearly playing mindgames with Rumple and the doll (another tactic to break someone down internally) and I think we are going to see more of these kinds of tactics through the season. I think the second set of promotional photos and taglines adds credence to this idea- as they several are regarding believing a (insert the dark or sad side of a character here) can overcome their personal demons, demons that Pan is going to do his best to use.
In the end, I think we’ll have a situation where many of the characters don’t believe in themselves and are consumed by self doubt- but unlike the beginning of the season, they will start to believe in one another. This unity will be the weapon they use to defeat Pan, who will likely have expected them to crumble.
tl:dr – Yes. It is.
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
Are Snow’s unicorn stickers still available? 🙂
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
I agree with you RG- I don’t think Rumple has deemed Emma as useless as he claimed on the Jolly Roger. Actually, after revisiting that scene, I was finding myself wondering if there wasn’t a bit more bravado there- and whether his leaving the ship wasn’t a calculated move, rather than him just taking off.
There’s a few reasons I think this- first of all, some of his words which seem like insults, could be considered warnings/instructions. He tells Emma that Neverland is a place where imagination runs wild, and that hers doesn’t. He’s setting her up to understand what kind of place they’re in, and what she’s going to have to do to survive. It’s possible that that little hint also helped Emma realize that emotions/feelings/etc have power like they did in the storm.
Also- there is a shift in Rumple’s behavior through the episode. At the start (wardrobe change!) he’s very cocky- displaying his restored powers, casually throwing insults around, etc. (although his heart doesn’t seem in it, as though his time as Mr.Gold has tempered the Dark One persona.) Then we see him on the island, and we get a glamour shot of the costume, see him enraged on the coastline having Henry slip through his fingers, but the anger is still very… Gold. Not Rumple. Finally, at the clearing with the Lost Boy, that bold confidence is almost gone. We see that he knows he is up against a foe he doesn’t believe he can beat (although I imagine the show will prove he can’t beat Pan *alone*) and he’s already conceded that he will die. Perhaps this is because of Pan’s strength, but perhaps it is also because he knows that Henry will, in some way- be the end of him, and he is interpreting this as his death.
So why take off on his own? Why depart with harsh words? Rumplestiltskin never wastes a gesture. I think at this point he has decided that he will die in Neverland (for one reason or another) but that he will recover Henry. That still leaves the task of returning Henry home. If he’s dead, he can’t do it- so he has to spur Emma on to complete the job.
It’s just that he was fresh out of unicorn stickers.
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
My first thought upon hearing Pan declare his need for the heart of truest believer was that perhaps he was looking for a successor. Someone with enough belief to sustain and rule Neverland, but the way it was phrased (needing the heart, rather than just ‘the truest believer’) is a bit awkward.
Knowing that belief and imagination are power in Neverland, it could be that he’s looking for a power source.
I’m also wondering if maybe – to bring back GOAT’s mission (which would make me feel a lot better because their end was so abrupt) maybe Pan wasn’t about destroying magic, so much as he was about making Neverland the only place it existed. With the Shadow’s frequent visits to the regular world, he could have known about mankind’s faltering belief in magic etc. Perhaps he’s decided to take magic from this world (which GOAT misinterpreted as destroying, rather than just removing) and bring it to Neverland. As Henry has proven capable of convincing others of magic’s power (and be willing to sacrifice a lot to do so) he is exactly the sort of person Pan couldn’t afford to have running around in the mundane world- better to have his belief in Neverland where it actually translates into power.
Edit: Just occurred to me- I definitely think Pan is experiencing a drop in power. Otherwise- why waste time with GOAT? Why not just send the shadow to pick up the boy and bring him back in one fell swoop? Perhaps the shadow is no longer capable for traveling to our world? Maybe after centuries, Peter’s belief is faltering, and he’s trying to find power to sustain himself.
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
