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While I, broadly speaking, agree that debate for the sake of an exchange of ideas is a good idea and what this forum has always been about, that’s not what this is
You are right.
Look guys, I’m just trying to see what everyone else wants to see from Hook in order to be happy with his character or at least to be interested in something he’s doing for the coming seasons….
If you love Hook and ship CS, that’s fine. Nothing wrong with that, but outside of that, what else do you want for HOOK specifically? I am just curious, @Michael.
[adrotate group="5"]"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICHook and CS are widely loved in the GA
Because a good portion of the people still watching this show are 1) only here for Hook and captain swan and more than likely nothing else 2) are too invested with other characters to leave (like myself) after having spent so much time on the show or 3) are just casual watchers who just genuinely don’t care. The people who wanted to stop watching have stopped watching. And it was a lot of people.
Girl he was killed 3-4 times in one season and came back. He’s never gonna die.
Okay…? How does that make him a well written character? How does that give him plot?
So…..for the 100th time, Michael, you are okay with Hook just being Emma’s boyfriend and nothing more to the story? You keep seeming to overstep this question. Are you afraid to answer? I am really trying to level here and understand but that seems to be about all you’ve got to say or defend with.
Hook is popular. Okay. Lots of characters are on this to lots of different fans. No issue here.
Hook is Emma’s boyfriend. Okay. So was Graham. So was Neal. Heck, so was Walsh. She’s with him and can stay with him all the writers like. Congrads.
Now what else? Because you said Hook was more than a ship yet this is the only side of the argument you are bringing out and quite frankly its getting a bit tiring because I genuinely do want to have this discussion, but it keeps going back to a ship war with you.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICLet me guess, you somehow think Neal is going to be miraculously resurrected in the finale don’t you?
Where did I say this? please direct me.
Hook is not a Neal, Robin, or anyone else that has died. He’s actually relevant
Okay… HOW is Hook relevant to the show? The ONLY thing you’ve been saying is that Hook is Emma’s boyfriend. I was using Neal and Robin as examples as to how sure you can be of someone being safe in the story only for them to up and die because the writers had other plans. Neal was Rumpel’s son, Henry’s father, Emma’s True Love, the catalyst for the entire show, paralled Emma entirely, and he still died. That goes beyond a single ship.
Hook isn’t even half of that, yet you are very sure he is safe 100% because “he’s relevant”. I’ve been asking what his relevancy is and how he can move forward in the story and the only thing u are telling me is “hes with emma” over and over and telling me that other characters should die. Like, really?
Mmmkay, so Michael just wants Captain Swan to have a happily ever after and anyone who disagrees is angry because Neal died and not, ya know, because of issues with the story or the character. Moving on.
The point still stands, the audience are being told that Emma and Hook are true loves rather than being shown it. It is lazy writing on the part of the writers, that’s the main problem.
THIS. I feel this way about their whole relationship. I don’t see any reason to believe why these two are together other than wish fulfilment. The writers are giving us the bare minimum in terms of writing their relationship, but whats worse is that so many people are okay with that. Now don’t get me wrong, when Hook first came on the show, I knew he was going to be one part of a love triangle, and I was okay with that, but I never believed we would get to this point here where he is her bf and nothing else. He was never portrayed as being that kind of character. Reminds me of this quote from Eddy: “I think that in all life, there are the people who are right for you and there are the people who are wrong for you, and then there are the people you just choose,” Kitsis said, before adding later, “I don’t know if [Emma] would stare at [Hook] and think he’d be a great father for Henry but he might be fun in Vegas.”
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC(Wow, so I typed up a reply and it didn’t post -____- RG If u see double post, feel free to delete one)
Anyway:
– I don’t thin Hook is Black Fairy’s son all because it makes the already crazy fmily tree even crazier. Plus I don’t see what gain there would be. Its not like Hook and Rump are going to be buddy, buddy.
– @Michael, Hook very well could die or split from Emma. Unless you know what the writers have planned. Afterall, other characters who had relevance in the story and were built up died with absolutely no payoff at all.
– Michael, outside of Hook living and being with Emma, I’m asking what more do you want from his character? Or is that just enough for you?
– Um, Regina would be leaving behind something. She has a son, Henry. And she has Roland. And she has her entire family. She has more to lose than Rumpel does. Her dying is incredibly unlikely, but Rumpel dying is probably going to happen. I want it to at least.
– I want Hook to have a story outside of emma, and here is the thing, this season has perfectly set it up. HIS BROTHER IS IN STORYBROOKE! Let the guy go on some kind of seafaring adventure or something!!!!! Let them bond. Let them fight. There is so much potential that could be created with that.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICHere is a better idea instead of going back and forth.
With all of Hook’s development thus far, what do you all think should come next for his character (assuming Once goes on for a few more seasons).
What do you want to see?
What do you NOT want to see?
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICYou can’t say there is bias on one side and not on the other.
Sure. I’m not saying there isn’t. It’s not fair to say that everyone who hates hook is just bitter over ship related issues (as Michael said earlier), just as its not to say everyone who hated Neal hated him because he was in opposition to Hook being with Emma. But we can have a discussion about the character of Neal that wouldn’t always rewound itself to “He’s Emma’s boyfriend”. That gets very hard with Hook.
Why? Because he’s so heavily tied to the ship with not much else outside of it. I’m really trying to level here and not be snarky or anything, so I was not calling it a bias or saying that CS fans are “blind to the truth” or anything like that. But it’s just a matter of perspective or logic or whatever you want to call it. If you loved the character, wanted him to get with Emma from the jump, and are invested in their relationship, you probably don’t see much wrong with anything going on because the show is playing into what you are interested in.
My whole point was that other characters on this show get more passes, or at least their actions don’t get dwelled on as much as Hook’s, it seems.
I disagree. Just look at Rumpel.
I think the show is much more willing to address when other characters clearly do something bad, as opposed to Hook where it just often gets swept under the rug and we are to act as if it never happened. Regina did rape Graham. She killed countless people. She and Cora were actively trying to hurt the main characters in season 2. But the thing is by the latter half of season 2, Regina had put down her role of a villain and from that point on was actively trying to do better. She was trying to escape her evilness (this is the 6th season and shes still trying to do it, despite having used light magic and even used TLK to break the curse in season 3 like Emma did in season 1) and the image that came with it. Regina isn’t perfect, but her character was and still is going through a constant journey. She’s not turning around and hurting people, lying, or doing bad things when no one is looking or when it suits her needs, and when she does it gets addressed. Rumpel is doing that, and the show is treating him like what he is. A bad guy. And almost all of us are looking at Rumpel for what he is. A villain.
Regina had a richer, better written arc given to her. Hook just went from villain to “hero” quite easily. He’s done bad or at least questionable things since that never got addressed, which I already spoke on. And that’s not fair. Excuses are made for any negative thing said about Hook.
One example was when Hook took the book out this season and reminded Emma of who she was and that she can do anything she puts her mind to. Many fans were annoyed bc they felt it was just Hook being Emma’s lapdog again and only serving to act as her supportive boyfriend, when in fact, the scene was actually really sweet and continued to put Hook in a great light this year
But Hook’s constantly doing that. Pretty much everything about Hook is putting him in a good light. He’s her cheerleader, all the time. That’s nothing new, nothing special. It’s incredibly typical for those two. I said that pages ago. She says she cant do something, he tells her to believe in herself.
Robin was just as boring as Hook but people on this thread loved Robin and hate Hook
Okay, this is an interesting though. I think Hook is way more prominent than RH is, which makes him a little more unbearable to those who aren’t invested in him. Everyone here wasn’t a huge fan of OutlawQueen and a lot still aren’t. I agree that it’d be nice if both of them were given better storylines, and RH has been a bit bleh at points. But the show isn’t constantly trying to force RH down our throats, so to speak, or make him look like hes the greatest thing since sliced bananas. RH has a family, RH had the conflict with Marian and Regina because of the time travel thing, then he was raped by Zelena a season or whatever ago, and has a child by her, and RH was a good heroic guy. He was vastly more interesting than Hook. In my opinion. I’m very interested in what is going to happen with him….Hence why there was no reason RH needed to die at all because the writers clearly have or had some sort of plan for him (including Page 23 and his dark past thing). To kill him is sort of out of left field. It served no purpose.
Same thing with Neal. Their deaths just doesn’t seem as if they were supposed to happen all along, and I think Sean said as much (I vaguely recall an interview where he said he just got a phone call one day telling him Robin was going to die).
Hook is boosted up in the story as this major character but doesn’t do anything outside of his ship, mainly. He has no relevance, very little story. He is boring to a lot of us. And the arc where he should have been featured front and center (Neverland) he was downgraded to nothing more than a point in a love triangle between Emma and Neal. I guess its comparable for some who aren’t impressed with either. I personally grew to love OQ and want to see them succeed because their story was relatively interesting. Moved a bit quickly, was contrived, but I think its much better now than what it was when it began, or has the potential to be. Hook and Emma are in a constant loop. It doesn’t even seem like Emma is growing as a character.
And if you think that Robin getting a pass and Hook getting more scrutiny has nothing to do with inherent bias within the SF fan club who simply don’t care for Hook bc he’s not Neal, then I think we aren’t being honest with ourselves
I think anyone can have opinions of characters that are not centered around who they are sleeping with.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICHenry is too young for a relationship.
I think Henrys the right age for the typical first love awkwardness stuff. I just think the writers arent using Henry to his full potential.
Would it really kill them to get this kid a plot? You’d think with him being the author he would have something to do. Sheesh. Hes like 13? 14? I always forget. I want to see henry get pulled into dark magic… I want to see henry do some knight stuff. Hopefully we see that next half.
But yeah i think a lot of the cast are just here for the paycheck at this point.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICTons of people stopped watching the show including reviewers of it, with him being one of the reasons why.
And im sure CS fans are invested in his relationship with Emma. Im asking what more is there to be invested in and shouldnt he have more? Or do you believe that should be all there is for Hook. Im asking for your opinion. A lot of us find Hook boring and the ship to be lackluster and poorly written. I think we could deal with that if he had more to do in the story. Its rarely happened but qhen it i have enjoyed . Snowing is often times boring but again, they play a much more prominent role with much more happening outside eachother.
Im not denying hes popular for whatever reasons people may have just as u shouldnt deny he is just as hated. I just disagree that he is on par with Regina in any way. Even here on this forum we’ve had a large anount of people leave because Hook was so polarizing here.
i kind of disagree that him being polarizing makes him popular. It makes it hard to have a discussion about hook that isnt singing his praises because no one wants to hear negative things about him. We can do that about other villains including Regina but when it comes to Hook things become difficult and i will repeat i think its just because a lot of the hook are primarily CS fans and are just content with the ship and cant see it from the perspective of those who liked hook but dont care for the ship.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICQuick and easy drama im guessing.
It doesnt make logical sense that Charming goes dark without Snow, as if shes his moral center or something. But im guessing hes going to get desperate and willing to do some questionable things to be rid of EQ or whomever and wake her.
Just like with dark snow, i bet it gets hyped and goes nowhere at all.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC(I mean, i dont think henry hates hook. I just dont think henry would prefer hook with his mother. But now that he is,hes gotta deal. Regardless, Henry liking Hook doesnt address any of my complaints about him)
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC
