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I had to revive this old topic from Season Two because I just found some new information that ties it to Season Three. To save everyone from re-reading all the previous posts in this thread, I’ll say that a bunch of us were speculating about the significance of Greg’s license plate “2KFL-138” when he first appeared in the second season episode, “The Outsider.” Phee and several others suspected that Greg might have a connection to Peter Pan. I incorrectly guessed the license plate might refer to The Wizard of Oz since MGM bought the rights to the story in 1938: i.e. read “2KFL-138” as “Took Flight in ’38“.
It turns out I had the right idea but the wrong movie. I didn’t think of Peter Pan since that movie was released in 1953. But I just discovered from this web page that Disney bought the rights to Peter Pan in 1938! So they were giving us a big clue back in the second season, along with the deleted scene of Henry and Neal discussing navigation and Neverland in “The Miller’s Daughter” (which we recently discussed in the Baes Cave thread) and clues going all the way back to the clock reading 8:15 in the pilot reflecting the image of Peter and the Darlings standing on the minute hand of Big Ben at 8:15 in Disney’s Peter Pan.
[adrotate group="5"]Phee wrote: BTW, I like that after the “fruit of my labours,” line, as he’s looking up at the star map, there’s a really quick, subtle hint of half a smile, like he’s thinking, “Impressive work, m’boy.”
Hook really did think of Bae as his son. He really is in mourning over the child that he both rejected and rejected him. And not even cause Bae was his last tangible connection to Milah but for Bae’s very self. He had such fatherly pride seeing how Bae was able to survive on his own.
I agree. It shouldl be interesting to see the Neal/Hook reunion at some point. I want to see Neal explain how to decode the map! I’m still wondering how they are going to leave Neverland.
Thanks for the kind words, KFC. I learn so much from these forums that it’s fun to be able to make a little contribution in my own way.
Great ideas! I think you are all onto it. Here’s one more wrinkle. Remember in “The Return”, the Blue Fairy said to Bae “His [Rumple’s] magic does not belong in this world.” What if Peter Pan was responsible for bringing the magic of the original Dark One from Neverland to the Enchanted Forest? Perhaps Henry not only has the power to save magic but also to destroy it. Most of us have been assuming that the Seer’s prophecy of Rumple’s “undoing” refers to him losing his magic, not his life. What if he loses that magic because Henry doesn’t just free Rumple from being the Dark One, he destroys the source of all dark magic in Neverland? So Pan needs to convince Henry that he is destined to be a hero to save magic when in reality, he is working to prevent Henry from fulfilling his destiny of destroying magic. So Henry finally gets the means to do what he wanted to do at the well in Storybrooke (we know how much these writers love foreshadowing.)
I really liked all of this episode, so it’s hard to pick just a few favorites, but here goes.
1. The cave scene. The moment when the “stars” became visible made me gasp.
2. The Neal – Rumple conversations, especially when Rumple told him about the Seer’s prophecy.
If I had to pick a least favorite, it would be Regina’s reaction when she learned Greg was dead. I loved Lana’s performance but I seem to be in a very small minority that had some sympathy for Greg. I wondered if Regina would have a moment of regret, thinking back that her actions in “Welcome to Storybrooke” had helped to put Owen on the path to what he became. Not that she wouldn’t have killed him in a heartbeat if necessary to save Henry, but I did hope her ongoing redemption would lead her to acknowledge her own contribution to his fanaticism.
Totally forgot about that. GAH. Someone just tell me how long Hook and Bae were together. I need this gap filled in. Learning to navigate by the stars is not easy and cannot possibly be learned quickly, right?? I say Bae and Hook were together for at least half a year.
Actually, it can be learned in a few weeks, assuming one starts with an understanding of basic high school trigonometry. But a few months (say one school semester) would be a more comfortable pace for anyone trying to do other things as well. In preparation for the Lewis and Clark expedition, Thomas Jefferson sent Meriwether Lewis to study with two of the leading astronomers of the day in cram sessions that lasted only about a week or two with each astronomer, as I recall. And that was while doing the thousands of other things needed to prepare for the trip! I bet Bae was a quick study.
I agree the symbolism of Phoenix is perfect; it was a place of rebirth for Emma and Neal as well as being the birthplace of Henry (the second in Regina’s family to bear that name), who would be the key to the rebirth of Regina. Sadly, I haven’t been able to exactly match the stars of the screenshot to the actual constellation of Phoenix. The image below shows the best I have been able to do. I’ve attempted to draw some of the constellation lines on the screenshot and labeled the stars with their most likely counterparts from the real sky. But as you can see by comparing this image to the constellation chart below, it’s not a very good match. I’ll go back and rewatch the scene to see if I can get a better view of the star map in Bae’s cave.
Hmmm…it seems I can’t get the new forum software to embed the image of the modified screen capture in the post so I’ve added it as an attachment. You’ll have to click on it to see it. The star chart embedded fine though. How did y’all get them embedded? Does the forum not like JPEGs?
Finally, does everybody remember the deleted scene from season two which showed Neal and Henry at the helm of the Jolly Roger as they sailed into Storybrooke from Manhattan? Their conversation about navigation now seems to contain even more foreshadowing than we originally thought! Here’s the scene for those who don’t remember it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiKwmoK2SCc
got these from our 304 sneak peek thread I was hoping the stars might be the constellation Phoenix, but it’s hard to tell. I suspect they are just random patterns of dots. I do see some similarities to Phoenix, but nothing conclusive, so the similarities may just be in my head. If anyone wants to try comparing them, here is a map of the constellation Phoenix:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Phoenix_IAU.svg
I could almost convince myself that the bunch of stars forming a vertical line near the middle of the image from Bae’s cave are formed by the stars Delta Phoenicis, Beta Phoenicis, and Alpha Phoenicis shown in the chart. If you do that, then there is indeed a star in the right place to be Gamma Phoenicis, forming an equilateral triangle with Delta and Beta Phoenicis, as well as a star on the other side of the line in the right place to be Epsilon Phoenicis. Alas, the brightest star in Bae’s image, the one at the lower left, is completely unaccounted for. Likewise, the brightest star on the actual star map, Alpha Eridani, is nowhere to be seen in Bae’s map. Of course, Hook did say the map was encoded, so they have a perfect excuse for not drawing an accurate map.
I’ll try to make time to download the image from Bae’s cave and draw in the constellation lines to better illustrate what I’m trying to describe. If I do, I’ll post it here later.
Likewise the restless the unicorn it is said can only be brought to bay by innocents (generally-speaking virgins, quite often female). Like a unicorn Regina has a restless nature that only Henry has been able to calm. While attempts made by anyone else have all ended with them getting burned. Henry’s childhood innocence has calmed Regina’s spirit and his believing heart give her hope. Woe betide the rest of the family if that changes.
They seem to be dropping hints that that is indeed going to change. When Pan said to Emma, “You haven’t forgiven your parents and Henry hasn’t forgiven you” it sounded like he is going to try to sew discord between Emma and Henry. If so, it stands to reason he would also want to isolate Henry from Regina. It seems likely that will tie in with manipulating Henry to become the “savior of magic” (which will no doubt turn out to be something much darker) but I haven’t been able to devise any more specific speculations.
