Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
does not exist and has never existed.
I. And there is no proof that SB isn’t recognized by our government.
Actually there is. When Owen brought the state police back to the town line in “Welcome to Storybrooke”, one of the officers said “There’s no town called Storybrooke anywhere in Maine” And of course none of them, even Owen, could see the town or Regina standing just across the line. So they’ve established that Storybrooke does not exist in any official records. This also implies that faking background reports must have been part of the service Rumple provided in Henry’s adoption since a real background investigation would have failed to find any town called “Storybrooke.”
Of course, we know the Curse provided some sort of an interface between Storybrooke and the outside world because we saw that they had phone and internet connections to the outside world before the curse broke. I’ve always wondered where they get their electricity from. Is there a Storybrooke Nuclear plant?
[adrotate group="5"]1×19 – The Blue Fairy told Baelfire that the Dark One’s magic doesn’t belong in the Enchanted Forest. Where does it belong? How did Dark magic end up in EF?
I like to think it has something to do with Pan.The fact that Rumple said “You can’t die unless we both die” and the fact that he could therefore only be killed by the Dark One’s dagger, make me think that perhaps the dagger was first introduced into the Enchanted Forest by Pan, or perhaps even by the shadow before Rumple and his dad arrived in Neverland.
The timeline for this also raises the question, how many (if any) Dark Ones existed before Zoso?
I think the large amount of “shipping” in the forums is my fault. More accurately, the fault of those like me, who aren’t interested in shipping but don’t take the time to write anything, leaving many of the posts to be written by shippers (who are certainly enthusiastic fans.) Ive been away from the forums for a while, mainly because I was very busy but even when I had a minute free and was tempted to log in, I’d think “Why take the time? It will probably be mostly shipping stuff which I don’t care to read.” If all the other non-shippers did the same, there would be nothing but shipping here. Imagine my surprise when I looked tonight and saw so many wonderful new threads on so many of the characters! It will take me days to read over most of them. So, thanks to all of you who contributed other things for those of us who don’t read the shipping stuff. I’ll try to make time to log in more often and occasionally post something myself.
I’ve been away from the forums for some time so please forgive me if I try to tie some of the recent posts to earlier ones but I just found this thread and can’t resist addressing a lot of the ideas that have been raised.
RumplesGirl said:
Henry SHOULD NOT be the picture of mental health. He should be angry and depressed and struggling. ..
I agree and I think this ties in to the discussion earlier in this thread about Henry’s behavior. WickedRegal probably expressed most clearly a frustration with Henry which I have heard from many people but I have a different view of it. WR wrote:
“And before anyone brings up the whole Regina tried to make Henry think he was crazy, what was she supposed to do….”Hey son, I’m the Evil Queen who cursed this entire land, and trapped your grandparents to be miserable forever! I hope you enjoy the stay!”
I think that is very close to what she should have done! My own assumption has always been that she intended to do this eventually but Henry got the book before she had a chance to have this conversation with him and that had enormous implications for the story, as I’ll explain below. After all, why would a book of fairy tales be enough to suddenly turn a boy against the only mother he had ever known?
I must disagree with WR’s statement that
“…Henry was really happy right up to the moment when he first got that book from Mary Margret, and that’s when things got miserable for him.”
RG cited a scene in “Going Home” that contradicts this:
“Go re-watch Going Home. Henry is miserable staring at his homework, lamenting to MM that his mother doesn’t love him and that he doesn’t have a family. THEN MM gives him the book. And the book gives him hope, because that’s what Fairy Tales are supposed to be.”
and there have been others as well, going all the way back to the pilot. When Emma is discussing Henry’s “delusion” with Archie, she says, “But he got the book a month ago, has he been seeing you longer than that?” and Archie replies “Yes, he has” and when Emma says, “So it’s Regina, isn’t it?”, he says “…over the years, her attempts to bring Henry closer have only backfired.” (emphasis added.) Likewise, in “The Heart is a Lonely Hunter”, Emma refers to Henry and Graham, saying “…both were miserable.” So we have evidence that there were serious problems between Henry and Regina for years.
On the other hand, we saw in the flashbacks of “Save Henry” and several other episodes, that Regina clearly loved Henry, so what happened? I don’t think knowledge of his adoption had anything to do with it (I believe you are mis-remembering that, WR. I may be wrong but I’m pretty sure there was never any comment that Henry pulled away from Regina after he learned he was adopted.) We know Regina loved Henry but we also know, as RG reminded us, that Regina admitted “I don’t know how to love very well.” (That line always gets to me!)
The rest of this is pure speculation on my part, but I’ll ask all those like WR who find Henry’s behavior in Season One unreasonable to consider this (I think) likely explanation for that behavior.
Based upon what we have seen of the characters, I think Regina wanted to be a good mom from the beginning. That leads me to assume that she and Henry were very happy when he was little. Everything we’ve seen suggests that she was devoted to him so it seems reasonable to infer that Henry responded by loving Regina as the only mom he knew. We saw a hint of that in the plaster hand cast “For Mommy” which we saw in “Queen of Hearts.”
The change in their relationship must have come when Henry became old enough to notice that time was frozen in Storybrooke, probably a few years after he started school (We have a hint of his fascination with time in his room – it is filled with clocks. That kid must have received clocks as Christmas and birthday gifts for years!)
None of the discussions I’ve seen about this question seem to me to really address how frightening and gut-wrenching this must have been for a child. Henry’s whole still-developing sense of reality would be shattered by a realization that none of his classmates ever grew and moved on in school like he did. Thanks to the curse, the other kids would forget they had ever been in class with Henry. It’s not surprising that by the time of the pilot he was described as “a loner” with “no friends.” How could he make friends when he got older every year and they never did?
Worse, when he was confused, there was only one person Henry would turn to help him make sense of this – Regina. After all, she had always been there for him. But as WR points out in the quote above, she couldn’t tell the whole truth to a seven or eight year old Henry, so as I said, I like to think she planned to tell him someday when he was older but, like someone afraid of going to the dentist, she fell into the trap of putting off an unpleasant task until the problem had grown too big to handle. Regina would have been terrified that the truth might turn Henry against her, so she would try to hide that truth from him and, in the best tradition of classic tragedy, her own actions would create the very outcome she feared (That’s why i love this show so much!)
So not only was Henry’s world not making sense, but the one person he had always counted upon to help him make sense of confusing things now offered no help at all. On the contrary, Regina was probably getting into the same stern denial mode which we saw her display in Season One toward Henry’s claims. I think this is what brought about the strained relationship we saw in the first season. He would persist in his questions, with Regina growing more worried and annoyed with each question. They probably had endless arguments about these questions. A cycle would develop: Henry would demand answers and Regina would lie or dismiss his concerns. Frustrated and confused, Henry would do what any child would do in the face of such frustration; he would misbehave. Regina, now irritated by the constant conflict with the more and more troublesome Henry would respond by punishing him and the punishment would only increase his anger and confusion, fueling another cycle of conflict. As the arguments increased, Henry must have felt his world had turned upside down. Why was his mother, who had always been so loving and protective toward him, now always angry with him? What had he done that was so bad?
We saw a hint of this in Season 3B in amnesiac Henry’s reactions to Emma’s evasions about Storybrooke but with Regina it went on for years. There was a work of fan fiction some time ago which I think gave a pretty good view of the conflicts in these unseen years between Henry and Regina but I can’t find it right now. Does anyone recall it?
It was only after years of this conflict that Henry received the book and was ready to accept the explanation it provided. But even if he was prepared to accept its explanation it would still have been a shock to him. We know he loved Regina. Despite their conflict, he had a lifetime of closeness with her. But now he had to come to grips with the fact that she wasn’t just inexplicably angry with him, she had done terrible things that he couldn’t reconcile with the loving mother who had raised him. She killed her husband. She sent untold numbers of children to their deaths at the hands of the Blind Witch before Hansel and Gretel finally retrieved the cursed apple for her. She was even
willing to kill her own father, and then she named Henry after the man she had killed! Could he be next? Poor Henry probably spent many sleepless nights lying in bed, knowing that a sociopath was sleeping just a few feet down the hall and he was completely in her power.So, to finally return to where we started, I agree that Henry should have a lot more emotional scars. So far, we’ve only seen this briefly addressed in his conversation with Regina in “We Are Both”. We know Regina loves Henry and we know he loves and has forgiven her, but forgiveness is not the same as forgetting. I’d like to see both of them talking to Archie about how to deal with their past.
This also touches on the conversations about how Henry reacted to Regina in the second season but I’ll save that for a later post since this is already way too long!
Adam Savage and Jamie Hyneman as Holmes and Watson!
This is the most clever idea I have heard!! Or, as someone else mentioned, they could have been working for the Home Office (without knowing who that really was, of course.) Then they show up in Storybrooke trying to figure out why they have lost all contact with the Home Office.
However, I must say my own personal favorites would be a couple of other classic Disney characters: Mary Poppins and The Absent Minded Professor. But I have no clue who could play either one.
Shouldn’t there be spoiler bars in the third paragraph of WickedRegal’s post? I hadn’t heard that bit of information.
Although PoM’s idea of Regina innocently killing Marian by accident is clever and intriguing (and just the sort of thing I can see this show doing), I really hope Marian doesn’t die. I guess it’s partly because I really dislike the whole theme of Fate or Destiny. Even though I know they have alluded to the idea of Destiny several times, such as Neal’s speech to Emma in the bar scene in “Manhattan”, I much prefer the dramatic possibilities of “The future is what you make it.” As someone once said to me, “I don’t know if free will really exists, but assuming it does makes it possible for me to get out of bed in the morning.”
Jenna_B wrote:
So maybe Robin goes back to Marian. Maybe they try to make it work but they can’t – not because of Regina, and not because of outside forces, but because they’re just not true love. If that were to happen, I think Regina actually would try to encourage Robin to stay with Marian, at least because of Roland. I can see her, then, actually turning to Emma for counsel
That’s a great story idea! I hadn’t thought of that but it has tremendous possibilities for both Emma and Regina. After all of Regina’s attempts to destroy other relationships (Snowing, Graham and Emma, etc…) it would be fun to see her try to help Robin and Marian stay together. That could be the catalyst that would allow Robin to forgive Regina for what she did to Marian.
I have to disagree with the last part of Jenna’s post though; even though we don’t know with certainty what would have happened to Marian in the original timeline, it was pretty clear that Regina’s intent was to have her killed within 24 hours.(And as Regina herself said in the first season, “Intent is everything!”, while Rumple said, “Intent means nothing.”) I just can’t picture Regina deciding to show mercy back in her Evil Queen days.
I’m trying to be optimistic, so I hope PoM is right that the Rumbelle wedding is a sign that we’ll see more interaction between those two and Rumple’s lie about killing Zelena will be the device to provide drama between them without separating them. But I also agree with RG that Belle ws reduced to just providing convenient plot exposition for much of 3B. It’s sad that both Belle and Henry have so often been reduced to plot devices when we’ve seen that these writers can write great character development when they are at their best.
Since I haven’t seen Frozen, I’m more biased toward wanting to see more of the old characters than any new ones. So I wold hope the new characters become a catalyst for deeper stories about the original characters, but I realize that’s unlikely. If they are promoting Elsa, a lot of people will tune in expecting to see her.
I must admit that it could be fun to see some of the characters’ reactions to Elsa echoing the fans’ reactions: “How can she be here? That’s a new movie!” It would be like Henry’s reaction to finding out Dr. Whale is Frankenstein – “But Frankenstein isn’t even in the book! Who knows who’s in this town?” So I will try to remain hopeful Adam and Eddy will find a way to involve the new characters without taking away too much time from my old favorites.
The only current shows I watch are:
Cosmos – A worthy successor to the original!
Person of Interest – Most interesting ongoing plot I’ve seen, after Once. Also fun to see Amy Acker (Nova/Astrid on Once) as Root..
Downton Abbey – As someone noted earlier, “Maggie Smith. Enough said.”
Resurrection – I didn’t intend to watch this but left the TV on after Once and got intrigued.
I also sometimes catch an occasional episode of Nova, Mythbusters, or Big Bang Theory, but it’s hard for me to put down a good book for TV.
As for old shows, back in their day, I never missed Babylon 5, Futurama, Twilight Zone, The Dick Van Dyke Show, The Adams Chronicles, or any form of Star Trek. I also watched a fair amount of Dr. Who, but nowhere near all of it!
Robin should find out how Regina had Marian executed as an example of what happens to those that helped Snow. Marian is alive now only because Emma intervened.
I agree. That’s why I can’t buy the idea that Marian will somehow die and Robin and Regina will then pick up where they left off. It’s inconceivable that Marian won’t tell Robin what happened to her and once he discovers that Regina intended to kill Marian (and presumably did in the original timeline), he may forgive Regina, but he’s certainly not going to be eager for a romance with her, even if Marian should be out of the picture. Well, maybe if Regina risked her own life trying to save Marian and/or Roland from some menace, but even then it would be a difficult relationship.
