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I’m a bit surprised that there are so many Rumple’s here. INTJ is the rarest of the 16 personality types, rarer still among females making up only like 1-3 percent of the population.
In the Star Wars version the INTJ is Emperor Palpatine. Heh.
I’m INTJ btw.
[adrotate group="5"]So I just knew someone was going to react to that example which is specifically why I said to set that conception aside. That example was about how selfish it was to put that on Regina. To make her do the deed, when it would ruin Reginas already strained relationship with her son. I didn’t argue that suicide is selfish.
I noticed it but it didn’t bother me because I don’t I think it’s out of character. Just like they try to portray Regina and Rumple as morale grey (really dark grey), Snow hasn’t been the unflinching white hat that the Disney movie created. And that’s a good thing. I like complex characters with human motivations. Throughout the show we’ve learned that Snow worst quality is that she can be extremely selfish. Is she always selfish? Of course not, it’s just a quality of her character, introduced when she was a child (bratty Snow was the worst), that comes out every now an then.
Examples:
1) Previously mentioned bratty Snow assuming that her birthday ball was being held for the Kingdom to honor her.
2) Regina offered her a chance to give up her rite to the thrown and live with her Sheppard Prince, happily ever after. But it was her fathers Kingdom and a least a part of her wanted her birth right, to hell with the peasants that would die in the coming war. I know, you all argue what Regina wouldn’t have honored that deal and that she would have been a tyrant. That may well be true, but Snow didn’t consider that when making her choice. She made her choice because Charming convinced her that she could defeat Regina with a fake sword and she wanted to be a Princess again.
3) She didn’t kill Regina. TWICE. Snow she is a mass murderer, standing in front of you and twice you let her go to ruin more lives. Why? WHY? Because… that’s not who she wanted to be. She couldn’t bare to be a person that would take another’s life (even justly) and in the process left the door open for Regina to cast the curse.
4) Using the candle to kill Cora. By her own admission, there were other paths that didn’t involve tricking Regina into killing her own mother. Regardless of whether or not you believe Regina and Cora deserved it, that doesn’t make the act any less evil.
5) Attempted suicide by Regina. This I think is the most selfish thing she’s ever done. Let’s set aside the fact that many consider the act of suicide incredibly selfish in and of itself, as it gives little regard to those being left behind. Snow was more than willing to ruin any chance of Regina ever having a relationship with her adopted son again, because she couldn’t stand the guilt of killing Cora. And then she tried to sell it as some selfless act of sacrifice, when in reality, she just couldn’t live with what she’d done and was willing to ruin quite a few lives (Charming and Regina’s, and arguable Emma and Henry’s) to end her pain.
6) Cave of secrets confession. I’m paraphrasing here: “Emma dear, you know I love you more than anything and I know that you have serious abandonment issues because just five episodes ago you said as much while crying over that map that led nowhere… but I never got to change every diaper and sooth every fever, so I want another child who I can show the love that you never knew as a child.” I understand it was her inner most secret, and I actually have no problem with her desire to have another child, but could she maybe talk to Emma about this. Let her know that she’s amazing and that there is room in Snow’s heart for more than one child. Just saying.
6) David’s poison problem. Henry who? Must. Save. David.
Now having said that, she is also the second most selfless character on the show (next to Emma). She layered and complex and it’s awesome.
This is an excerpt of a much longer really fantastic character analysis that makes my point about regret and remorse perfectly.
Firstly, looking at the concepts of “regret” and “remorse”, I think it’s important to mamke a distinction between the two and look at how they manifest themselves. For me, regret is as much a selfish emotion as remorse is unselfish. I think that people regret words and/or actions because of the negative effect they have on themselves. People feel regret because it’s made THEM feel bad, irregardless of how it makes others feel. If we think about things we’d like to take back, or things we wish we hadn’t done, how many of them are because of the way that WE feel as a result of them?
Remorse, however, is based on how our words and actions affect OTHERS. If we do or say something that makes someone ELSE feel bad, and we are troubled as a result of it, then that says more about how we feel about others than we do about ourselves. And as an example, I’d like to posit that Regina felt and still feels remorse over killing her father – no matter how she justified it and appeared unrepentant, I believe that it still hurts her because she caused his death. And in losing him – someone she clearly loved and who loved her too, even if that love was cowed by Cora’s strict control and emotional manipulation – Regina really is “sorry”, as she says. I don’t think it’s coincidence that Regina took Baby Henry to her father’s coffin and said “thank you”.The complete post, which I strongly recommend that everyone read, can be found on tumblr here: http://heartsways.tumblr.com/post/68795600961/remorse-regret-and-regina
“I did cast a Curse that devastated an entire population. I have tortured and murdered. I’ve done some terrible things. I should be overflowing with regret, but…I’m not. Because it got me my son.” She’s very “end justifies the means,” but her means were about as mean as you can get, and can she really admit to herself and accept how truly horrible many of her actions have been? I think if she could admit and accept that, then she would have some regret.
No, she would have remorse. There is a difference.
So I don’t think this is a back pedal. There is a big difference between feeling regret and remorse. You can feel guilty about an action but at the same time not regret that it happened. Especially if something good came out of all of that.
When Regina was tied to the tree talking about all that she’s done, the murder, torture, etc, she actually did sound remorseful. She knew that stuff was wrong and she acknowledged that without Henry she would have felt regret for all the destruction she caused. But she doesn’t because without the curse, and the murder, and the torture, Snow doesn’t meet Charming, Emma isn’t born, and Henry doesn’t exist. And she will happily choose her son over anything else in the world. To me that was one of her most self aware moments in the entire series.
People are complaining that she’s ruined her redemption, but I’m lets be honest here. What kind of redemption are you expecting? She was literally Hitler to the enchanted forest. Bat *&^% insane for 15ish years. You don’t just wash that darkness off your soul. Could she perhaps join the good guys and become some sort of anti-hero? Perhaps. Is that what she wants as a character? I really don’t know. Since the curse broke she’d pretty much been focused on getting Henry back. Once they return to Storybrooke and everything settles down (LOL it’s never going to settle down), then perhaps she can go see Archie and figure out who and what she wants to be. But at this moment, she doesn’t care about redemption or her own happy ending. She just wants her son home and safe.
Now in terms of the promo, I think it has to deal more with the towns issues with Regina, and not her choosing evil again, i.e. perhaps the dwarves are not happy that suddenly Regina is on team Charming.
So I’ve been pouring over these pictures and I think the timeline of this scene goes as follows:
1) Henry is with Regina and she has the small red vial (assuming that’s what was in that mysterious little box) and is planning to use it against Pan.
2) Pan shows up and confronts them. Regina goes down defending Henry. Pan takes the vial.
3) The rest of them come over and help Regina. Pan taunts them.
4) Rumpel surprise attack! Pan is stabbed (you can still see the vial in his hand when he’s stabbed.)
5) Pan transforms into his true form (Rumpel’s dad) and dies.
Unknowns: I read somewhere that the cast had to pretend to be frozen for a minute during the scene. Not sure where or how that fits in. Also in one of the pics it looks like Neal is watching something in the sky while taking a defensive posture in front of Belle. I’d suspect Pan’s shadow is flying around, but this is a day scene so /shrug.
How come Regina didn’t recognise Neverland in the globe though?
We’ll presumably she got there through a portal, dropped on a beach somewhere. Her knowledge of the geography would have been: Ocean, beach, and a jungle. It’s not like she used google maps to track down Ariel’s underwater kingdom.
I doubt Emma could identify the Enchanted Forrest on a globe either.
Adam just tweeted episode 303 title: “Quite a Common Fairy”
That’s the Regina episode, so looks like she is the one with the connection mentioned at the panel. That’s makes sense with Jen’s comment that Regina and Hook had both been their before.
