[WickedRegal]

obisgirl wrote:

Can we move onto a different topic please?

Cooler heads shall prevail Next question: if Regina were to stumble again (a la Rumple killing Zelena) what would you think of that?

Ummm….yeah, I think in a sense Rumple has become Dorothy. 😛

Like he killed the Wicked Witch of the West, and now her sister The Evil Queen is more than likely going to be after him. Like…he manipulated Snow into killing Cora, and tried to get Regina to give up her vengeance, but then he turned around and did exactly what he tried to persuade her not to do….hypocritical much…

And if it comes out that Elsa has it out for Rumple too…I do forsee a Queenly alliance in Season 4. Fire and Ice….Rumple would be in for a world of trouble. Though I do have this one crack theory, but I’m going to hold it off till the end of July, when a few episodes were recorded. And I can only hope I’m wrong with this crack theory…because if i’m right…I worry for SB.

SO yeah…I do worry for Rumple’s safety…and Belle’s.

[WickedRegal]

Regina was given the nickname “Evil Queen” by her own subjects. She wasn’t loved by her people, she was feared by them. Snow is the rightful heir to the kingdom plus Regina was kicked off her throne so now Snow and Charming are the rightful rulers of the kingdom. Regina only remains mayor because she is unopposed.

Even though she was feared without a doubt, the people who weren’t helping Snow White, believe me, they were happy and respected Regina.

I agree with @Price Regina definitely was not a good queen. She abused her power in her quest to kill Snow White, ordering the slaughter of innocents in the name of vengeance. That is not a good queen at all. As far as regular duties like taxes and what not, we have no idea either how she handled these things because we never got a scene of her dealing with these issues. A majority of her reign was focused on killing Snow White as soon as Leopold died.

In Regina’s defense…until shown otherwise, that village massacre was the only massacre Regina did on her village aside from the private executions. And the fact that Regina’s kingdom was wealthy, and wasn’t filled with poverty showed that Regina did in fact run it the way it should be run.

However, the moment you help Snow White, or personally cross the Queen…that’s when your life is more than likely in danger. Regina didn’t just sit on her throne saying, go kill this village then go kill that one. Set fire to the woods, behead everyone, Regina wasn’t that type of Queen. It took you either personally offending her, which means stepping out of line or treason for helping Snow White….that’s where the price is paid. The people in Regina’s dungeons, as far as we saw, only went there for either reason. And once again, Regina was named the Evil Queen by her own subjects out of fear, but the way she successfully/business wise ran her kingdom was something respected.

Even Lana herself, I believe stated, that the only real way to piss off the Evil Queen that would get you killed, is by helping Snow White. Those who saw Snow White, and helped her was punished on grounds of treason to the throne. However those who saw Snow White, and alerted the Queen’s Guards, I’m quite sure they received a small reward from the throne.

It all boiled down to who they helped…the Queen or the Bandit. Those who chose Regina lived, those who chose Snow died. But Regina was a successful Queen from what I gather, just don’t help Snow White, or it maybe off with your head.

And besides…who would want to go back to that lifestyle???? Like Henry would be miserable in the EF without any electricity, indoor plumbing, tv, and his Nintendo DS….like just no. And too many bad memories and times are in the EF, the peasants have a fairer life in SB. Let’s just stay in SB.

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[WickedRegal]

1.  DarkHeart disagrees with you.

2. If they ever go back to the EF, who gets to rule, for example. What is the future of Snow and Regina?

 

1.)

Not necessary…Adam and Eddy said that Cora was in a “Lot of ways” Rumple’s soulmate, not that she was his soulmate. But even Rumple said that Cora would always hold a very special place in his heart.

Adam and Eddy retracted their statement of using the word Soul Mates for DarkHeart after the Rumbelles nearly had a nervous breakdown, and in it’s place used “Kindred Spirits”. But then again, as I said in the other thread….it was something about DarkHeart that was very spicy and a tad more heated, but Belle is the one who got the ring on her finger. Hoping Belle will tap into that inner Lacey soon.

2.)

Ummm….oh boy I’m going to get a lot of heat for saying this. But Regina is the Queen! Snow White’s kingdom was unfortunately destroyed, and as many Oncers pointed out, Regina was a wonderful queen until you either cross her or help Snow White.

Regina never raised taxes, her kingdom was well fed, and her people(those who didn’t help Snow) were happy. She ran the Enchanted Forest as a brilliant Queen should, but the moment she catches word that you’ve been helping Snow White, well then it’s just of with your head.

Besides, Snow White was Queen what for one year in the EF? And David wasn’t even a real prince, he was a shepherd posing as a prince? The only reason he became King was because of his love/marriage to Snow White…Regina however, not only took care of the EF, but she ran the heck out of Storybrooke for 28 years, and still going strong as Mayor. Between the two of them, I’d rather have someone with experience running the kingdom/town.

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[WickedRegal]

RumplesGirl wrote:

But I find incredibly hard to believe that they trump the love and devotion he had to his wife/mother of his child, after only a week at most.

I don’t view Outlaw Queen as happening too fast, especially when you consider that they had a history before they even met. Regina knew about him LONG before she enacted the curse and there’s the bits we saw in the Enchanted Forest during the lost year (their snarky banter). Anyway, I think it’s too restricting to put a time limit of sorts and call a relationship happening too fast. Honestly I’ve seen faster hook-ups happen on my soaps, which tend to jump from one storyline to another within the span of a few episodes.

I fully agree with this!

Like Emma and Neal, first day when they met, and he later took her out for coffee in the park. Was that not fast? Or Snowing…first day adventure together, and although it was months later, they were in love the first day they met, and it was proven when Charming was ready to bail out on Abigail for Snow White, after knowing the girl for one day. Sometimes love is just love at first sight…especially since Robin and Regina are soul mates, that probably added extra chemistry. It’s no wonder they fell in love so hard.

Plan A)

Preferably, the best route for this to go is to balance things out. Marian’s death was supposed to happen, and based on the many encounters with death Marian has faced, I think the only way to balance things is if Marian died. But again…I don’t want Regina to be Robin’s second choice…it could be like Robin chooses Regina, and then Marian dies.

Plan B)

Either way this story goes…we’re going to wound up with Outlaw Queen in the end. Soul Mates always win.

 

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[WickedRegal]

If anything is going to anchor Regina, it’s Henry, I agree. Alright. Here’s a topic with Regina. Does her happy ending HAVE to include a love interest? Now, granted, the same could be said for Emma but since this is Regina’s thread and her love life is the one in question at present in the show…if Robin DOES choose to stick with Marian and Roland, is that a *bad* thing? I do think Regina deserves loves and happiness but there is something to be said about having the opportunity for it in the past, walking away from it (out of fear) and the consequences of that choice is not having Robin at all. So, while I do want Regina to have love, would Henry be enough?

Taking off my Outlaw Queen glasses, I’m going to be completely honest.

I don’t want Regina to be Robin’s second best choice if Marian dies/doesn’t work out. I would just find that utterly disrespectful if he went to Regina for that reason, after probably tossing her aside for Marian. So if that’s the case, I’d rather Henry just be enough than Regina be under the Second Place category. It’s either First Place or nothing at all.

Alright, now that that is said, I’m putting back on my Outlaw Queen glasses. 😛

Because in the end…Robin and Regina are soulmates, and I just don’t think after experiencing that type of affection and love, he would never be able to feel that sort of love for Marian as he does for Regina.

However…there are some Oncers who think Regina may just leave SB, don’t see that happening because of Henry, but it would be an interesting story arc.

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[WickedRegal]

obisgirl wrote:

True RG but I think she’s matured past that kind of child-like behavior. I would be very sad and disappointed in her character if she reverted back-then again, we’ve also seen that true loves don’t handle loss well.

Well I hope so too. But I think it’s telling that Regina’s first instinct when she realized what Emma had done was to blame her in the exact manner that she blamed Snow, all those years ago. Now, maybe she just needs time to cool off and think but her first reaction was “this is happening all over again.”

And personally, I don’t think Regina will go all Evil Queen again….because she has Henry, and she knows it would disappoint him. However, that doesn’t mean Emma is free from the Mayor Mills lashings, sassiness…it’d basically be S1 Regina and Emma without the whole killing/getting rid of you plot. Least for the first half, and I truly hope that Emma is able to right her wrong. And I think Regina will go a tad easier on Emma, but harder at the same time. Easy because unlike Snow White, Robin wasn’t killed like Daniel was, and harder because unlike 10 year old Snow White, Emma is 30 years old, and was warned to not touch anything in the past by Rumple.

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[WickedRegal]

The Evil Queen & The Snow Queen….Best Friends Forever or Royal Cousins…..

C’mon…..the similarities are just….like they’re there! There’s no denying it! I’m crossing my fingers for Royal Cousins!

  

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

  

[WickedRegal]

Before I start…let me just start pouring the glasses as this is bound to get very heated…

Alright….now that that’s done. Let’s get started.

1) Has Regina truly let the “Evil Queen” go? And is it possible to ever do such a thing?

The Evil Queen is someone who will always be a part of Regina….that’s without a doubt. It’s how she uses the Evil Queen is how SB will view her. As we saw in Season 3, the Evil Queen was a great hero who saved the day in both arcs of the story, rather than the terrible villainess she who wrecked havoc in Season 1. So I see the Evil Queen moniker as being more of a super hero title now, like when she needs to be Regina, she’ll be Regina, but when it’s time to be the Evil Queen, she’ll be the Evil Queen. The Evil Queen is neither evil nor good, but will gain results no matter what. She’s sort of the “Bad Cop” of the Charming Family, who mainly gets what needs to be done, done.

2) Has Regina demonstrated enough regret and remorse for the actions of the past? And does she need to?

Regina’s actions show more than her emotions. Actions speak louder than words, and this woman has literally saved the day, and Storybrooke. Therefore, by defeating not only Pan in NL, but her sister in SB…she has shown that her loyalty lies with her family, and I think now, no matter where they may say or do, she realizes that The Charmings are her family. She’s Snow White’s step mother, David’s step mother in law, Emma’s step-grandma, and Henry’s mom/step-great-grandma. They’re family, and Regina’s the Family Matriarch, and the Family Matriarch defends their family at all costs.

3) Is Regina simply a victim of fate/Rumple’s machinations or did she have a hand in her own descent into darkness

Now….you all know my response to this. I do believe that Regina was unknowingly Rumple’s puppet in the EF. We saw even before Regina’s birth that Rumple planned to turn a pure soul into his, and I quote “Monster”. Does Rumple deserve all the credit for everything the Evil Queen did, no, some of that credit is placed upon Henry Sr, for not protecting his daughter, and Cora, who physically and mentally abused her daughter. And small credit is due to Snow White, for telling Regina’s secret. Now I do believe that Fate offered Regina a chance to escape her future by prepping her to meet Robin Hood, but Rumpelstilskin, possibly foreseeing the whole Tinkerbelle Fiasco, placed it in Regina’s head that her fate to be evil was sealed, and that she had no power to change it. The thought of her being powerless to avoid being evil had a massive effect on Regina, that scared her out of going into that Tavern. And we can see evidence of Rumple’s influence being the cause of Regina running from Robin, in 3×03 where Regina tells Tinkerbelle that “the darkness and anger was all I had? What would I be without it?” This shows by Rumple telling her those exact words that it haunted her.

4) Regina classifies herself as a hero at the end of S3B (at least for today). Does she deserve such a moniker? Is it possible that she’ll never truly be “a hero” (off shoot of this question, since I know it’ll come up but what does a “hero” eve mean??)

A hero…to me a Hero is someone who does whatever it takes to save the people you love. Regina deserved the title of Hero more than anyone else in S3, as she is the one who defeated Peter Pan in NL, Saved Henry, Got them home, and had to give up Henry, and then reverse the curse to send them all back to EF, where her life had been a living (beep) 24/7. Then she had to go to war with her sister, break the second curse, and defeat her sister, thus saving the lives of everyone in SB. So yeah….Season 3 is Regina’s Hero Season. Period. Point. Blank.

5) How will Regina act in S4 based on her past and the lessons she’s learned over the course of 3 seasons?

I truly think Regina won’t be evil again, but more so overcome with depression over losing her soul mate. We’re going to see a crying, isolated, broken Queen in S4. And I believe that will be the thing her and Elsa can bond over, as far as I can see, Regina is the one character Elsa has the most in common with. Isolated Queens who longed for freedom, losing sisters, and both have a run in with Rumpelstilskin.

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[WickedRegal]

 If Regina has the right to solely blame Emma now for things being difficult again between Regina and Robin that is another matter though. But more importantly: Instead of raging about Emma’s mistakes, Regina should start to think about, how she will win back her soulmate. If it’s fate anyway it’s a total waste of energy to blame Emma and rage about her and maybe even go after her. And fate or not fate, it would show that Regina has grown, if she now focuses on how to find a solution to be with her soulmate without executing, killing, cursing someone and particular not Marian. Because regardless that maybe Marian and Robin weren’t meant to stay together, there is still Roland, and Marian is his mother, and Roland loves her. Regina gets a second chance to do things right this time, show her true genius and heart, instead of shoving Marian out of her way by any means. Yes, it sucks that her happiness was ruined for the moment, but she shouldn’t make it worse, turning back to Evil Queen hardly will make it better, and use her energy, charm, knowledge, heart to win Robin back. For the record: We majorly disagree about fate.

Now this much we can agree on that Regina can lash out on Emma, but not necessary be the Evil Queen again. Probably the usual eye rolls, and sassy remarks upped a thousand more, but that Regina should not waste her energy in making Emma’s life a living hell. At this point in time, it wouldn’t be worth it. Regina should do to Emma what she did to Snow, let her rot in her guilt till they become friends again, but in the mean time, Regina should focus on solving her sister’s murder, dealing with the ice queen, and etc.

And I do agree that fate is not one of the best topics for the two of us to discuss because we have two different view points. And Adam and Eddy said Cora was Rumple’s soulmate in a lot of ways, which means that Cora could have possibly represented Rumple’s soulmate, but that she wasn’t. They didn’t say DarkHeart were soulmates, period, they said in a lot of ways.

As for the other couples on the show….Outlaw Queen is the only couple with solid proof of being soul mates. That’s it. I’m not saying that Snowing, Rumbelle, SwanFire, CaptainSwan, and all the others can’t be soul mates, but for right now…they’re in the True Love category until proven Soul Mate. As powerful as their love can be…well, we see that you can have more than one true love, so there’s really no telling. Heck Snow White’s second true love may live a block over from her….but her soul mate may just be Charming. We’re going by facts here, and right now…Outlaw Queen is the only couple that has the Soul Mate mark on it.

I really hope Adam and Eddy expand on the difference between soul mate and true love, because Soul Mate, dare I say maybe of a higher level than true love.

And as for the whole Fate debate. Fate is already aligned to happen, but people changing Fate is what alters the future. Regina altered fate by not going into that Tavern, which set off a series of events. Rumple has been altering fate for about 300 years with his deals and manipulation. Emma altered fate by going back in time, and saving a woman who was supposed to die. Because in reality….nobody would have ever known Regina killed Marian if Emma hadn’t brought her back, that would have never even came up ever again! I personally feel….Fate is much like Karma, it comes back to bite you in the end. Rumple paid his dues because Neal was killed, Regina definitely paid her dues with having to kill Daniel herself, her mother and sister are killed….this time…Emma’s about to pay the price.

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[WickedRegal]

WickedRegal wrote:

Umm…when Emma and Hook encountered Past Rumple, he specifically told them to touch nothing else….and bringing someone back who was supposed to die, is definitely messing with fate and destiny, who had brought Robin and Regina together without that whole Marian Death issue, because that never would have come out, and everyone would still be happy.

Robin and his son Roland suffered. They maybe have reached a point to move on and find new happiness in life, but it’s not like they not already paid a heavy prize for Regina not embracing her own alleged fate. Regina ran away from it at the tavern, didn’t she, or was that fate too, because, she and Robin weren’t meant to come together yet, not this way, Tinkerbell was tinkering with fate? But does that mean it was Robin’s fate to meet Marian, do everything to save her life even get tortured by Rumple, have a son with her only to lose her through Regina, to suffer? Or had he been tinkering with fate when he got the fairy wand to safe Marian’s life when she was sick, her and Roland’s because she was pregnant at that time with him, so Robin has a prize to pay now, by making him suffer that Marian is not actually dead so that Robin can’t be with his soulmate anymore without feelings of guilt? And to correct Regina’s choice at the tavern to run away and not meet the guy the fairy dust told she was destined to be with, fate then made Regina execute Marian? Regina is not to blame for anything because it was all fate? Such kind of argument should make any murder happy: Fate made them do it, so no guilt, so no prize to pay, no punishment, we should put fate into prison. And because it eventually might have not come to light otherwise (can’t be sure about that though, can we) it doesn’t matter at all that Regina in the other timeline killed Roland’s mother? I find that logic screwed. And was it fate, that Cora murdered Daniel, made Regina suffer, and Snow did nothing else than help fate on it’s way, because in the great scheme of things Regina was never meant to be with Daniel, it has always been Robin she was meant to be with? And was it fate that Regina had to suffer this so that she would after doing many terrible things discover deep down in her soul love? I am wondering. Who says Marian was meant to die? Just because she died in the past nothing says, she was meant to die. As well it could be that fate now corrected its course with Emma saving her life. Arguing with fate is always tricky. Why should be one thing, one act fate but the other not? There is no book we can look it up in if it indeed had been written before, that things had to happen the way they happened.

WickedRegal wrote:

And the answer to the Robin and Regina’s fast progression is simple…they’re the only soulmates, so far confirmed on the show. Soulmates are of an entirely different level than True Loves such as the other couples…a deeper, firmer connection soulmates have than true loves. You can have many true loves, but only one soul mate.

It was said by the writers, that Cora was Rumple’s soulmate. So following your view, Rumple and Cora had a deeper connection than Rumple ever will have with Belle, who is just one of his many true loves. But why does have true love’s kiss such a power to break curses? Cora couldn’t break Rumple’s Dark One curse with a kiss, but Belle nearly did. If I understand that right, it could mean, that Rumple is meant by fate to be the Dark One, something Cora, being the soulmate then with her unique deep connection understood and didn’t try to change, but Belle did not understood Rumple, so she tried to change him, although by now she seem to have given into that fate. Which though explains beautifully, why Belle’s kisses now don’t have to seem anymore any affects on the Dark One’s curse. What are Snow and Charming then, the rare example of soulmate and true love being one and the same? Could explain why in Emma as the product of that rare combination such strong magic is running. Then was that fake prince though Cora’s soulmate, because there was some very strong magic running in Zelena. The view, soulmate and true love are not the same has merits, but never sounded to me like the writers truly made a difference so far, they just didn’t want to use the same expression all the time. They probably haven’t given it much thought though, because commonly soulmate and true love is used for the very same concept, the idea, that somewhere in this world there is a human meant to be our partner in life, our “better” half. This image of the half comes from Greek mythology: Humans once were creatures with two heads, four arms and legs, but split up by the gods, who feared the power of those creatures. But then these split up creatures began to suffer terrible death, and the gods took mercy and made it so, that the two halves could reunite in a different physical way. So now we all are driven to find our other half to feel complete again and embrace life fully. It is that idea that made it’s way into Christian philosophy supporting in the High Middle Ages the ideas of courtly love, as expressed in Minnesang, which then later became the model for the idea of true love. If in the show the concept is indeed a different one, soulmate and true love being different things, fine, just saying that it would show other relationships in a different light as well. Emma meddled with things, but so did Regina. So did Rumple, so does everybody. They make choices, choices have consequences. That is not fate, that is life. Think Regina doesn’t need to make Emma feel guilty, Emma is seeing very well for herself, that bringing Marian with her has impact. That Emma sure didn’t do it on purpose doesn’t reduce Emma’s responsibility for changing things. But it wasn’t Emma’s responsibility, that Regina ran away from Robin the first time they had a chance to meet. Regina lashing out at Emma the way she did was not justified, explainable, even as first reaction understandable, but if Regina acts on that first feeling she will again blame others and make them bear consequences for things she is as much to blame for herself. If Regina truly has grown over the past season, she will not go after Emma, but look for better ways to win her love back then killing his son’s mother. Regina gets now a chance to do things right. What the writers though were talking about was Emma’s view of things here. Whatever Regina will do, Emma right now feels guilty, finding new love and romance herself (with Hook we can guess, the little detail implied but not noticed by many it seems), while with doing something right, saving a life, she seemed to have taken away Regina’s chance for new love. Emma wouldn’t be Emma if not feeling bad about it. And being her mother’s daughter eventually Emma might try to help Regina to find happiness nevertheless and thus make things maybe even only worse for a while. Emma will pay a prize for what she did, I have no worries about that.

Wow….that’s so much info that I have to respond to, so I’ll just go with the highlights here.

Let’s start this off…Fate runs in many mysterious ways. Robin and Regina are soul mates, that was something Tinkerbelle did not make happen, she just revealed to Regina who her soul mate was. From birth Robin and Regina were soul mates….the end. Daniel was not Regina’s soul mate, neither was Marian Robin’s….period point blank. Daniel and Marian may have been their true loves, which you can have many, but only one soul mate.

Regina killing Marian, well….Fate can sometimes be a bad (beep). Do most OQ believe it was Marian’s fate to die…sadly, absolutely! A balance had to be met, and Marian being the third wheel was not something fate wanted. Was it Daniel’s fate to die by Cora’s hand, possibly…would he have died anyway, absolutely. If you’d take the time to think about it…before Regina even met Marian, this woman was on her death bed, and pregnant. Death was fighting hard to take Marian out of the equation, but Robin went to Rumple, and intervened with it, thus giving Marian a good two or three more years to live. But when Fate wanted Marian out, it wanted her out, no matter how it happened. It was just a twist that Regina was the one who killed her, hence Fate being a bad (beep).

Let’s see here…what else, oh right the whole suffering thing. Well, as we all know, Regina not going into that Tavern ruined not only her life but Robin’s….hence the Soulmate connection they share. Even one choice still affects the other, knowingly or not. He was stuck with an always sick wife, and she became the Evil Queen. And Emma saving Marian was tampering with Fate, not correcting it because Emma is the one who went back to the past and brought someone back with her. Even Rumple said Emma was tampering with Fate, as what happened in the past is what was supposed to happen. Regina, herself screwed with fate by not going into that Tavern, and you see how Fate returns the favor, but even still it tries to balance things out by bringing Robin Hood into Regina’s picture.

Until said otherwise, Regina and Robin Hood are the only SoulMate Couple on the show….and the others are True Loves. As for the Rumple and Cora, Adam and Eddy never said the word soulmate, they said the word Kindred Spirit. And as much of a Rumbelle Shipper I am…I will admit that Cora and Rumple had just a tad bit more fire. I don’t know why, but they’re heated kisses compared to Rumbelle’s innocent…hmm…now that Rumbelle is married, I think they’re going to get a bit more heated. (Come on Belle, call on that inner Lacey!) 😛

As for Emma’s guilt…well! C’mon, she’s just like her mother only worse. Snow White had that “Excuse” (rolls eyes) that she was a child, Emma is 30,  and very intelligent! She should have known to touch nothing, as Hook persuaded her to do! No matter how anyone twists this story, it is Emma’s fault that Outlaw Queen is experiencing some difficulties in S4, and it’s only going to hurt worse when Marian discovers that Robin Hood is no longer the same man that she married.

(C’mon….Marian’s been dead for about 33 years, Robin has been a single father, and experienced the soul mate type of love….he’s not the same man he was when she died.) So in a way….Robin and Marian will experience just as much issues as Outlaw Queen, and leaving it in Fate’s hands to right Emma’s wrong, I think we all know whose going to win in the end.

 

 

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

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