[Ziera]

@TheTrickster wrote:

Ok, I was thinking on “protected” as “having help and people who care for her” not a 24h companionship. My fault. She could be easy to find, and easy to “take” –so to speak- but with that sort of friends, I’m not so sure about being completely vulnerable. Unless a quick attack, like, “hey, Are you Belle? Yes? Nice to meet you, now, let me kill you”.

I don’t think that killing Rumplestiltskin in our world makes the killer the Dark One. Even having magic. In any case, maybe avoiding the curse could be a good starting point for a pirate to look for an alliance with Cora. Just guessing.

About Belle knowing that her beloved killed his first wife. Well, for sure I think she would confront him about that, but as I said, I think Belle is not a naïve-all-white character. Come on, she knows who she is in love with. At least, she should. One thing is say: “ok, stop acting like that if you want me to be with you”, but no one can change his past. So she would probably be scared, she would probably need some time to assimilate it, but that doesn’t mean she would take part for Hook.
But who knows?

I just hope Belle being strong enough not to be confused by the situation and Hook being twisted enough not to act like a quick killer.

Yeah, I understand what you’re saying. Hahaha

Really? That is an interesting thought…the dagger not having effect.

Yeah, I could agree with that about belle finding out about milah. You’re right, she does know that he has a bad past.

Yeah, me too!

@PriceofMagic wrote:

Why kill Belle to hurt Rumple if he was then going to kill Rumple anyway and effectively end Rumple’s suffering at Belle’s death? The crueller thing after killing Belle would be to keep Rumple alive but that would defeat Hook’s main objective of killing Rumple. Killing Belle after Rumple would have no purpose.

First of all–

That is a good point. I think thought that he would probably suspend Rumpel, like Rumpel did to him when he killed Milah.
Something in the rounds that he wanted Rumpel to feel helpless as he killed belle, like he did when Rumpel killed Milah.
After he killed belle he would kill rumpel. I don’t know, it makes sense in my mind. But again, who knows? Could go either way. 😉

@PriceofMagic wrote:

If Hook went after Belle and got into her good graces then Rumple faces a bit of a dilemma. If he kills Hook, then Belle may think he’s being jealous that another man is showing her some attention and that may drive her away. If Rumple does nothing, then Hook is going to be around Belle which will torture him with paranoia. Either way Rumple is in a lose/lose situation until Hook decides to try and and kill him.

This is a really good point as well! But I have a couple things. If he spent time with belle, then Rumpel would know sometime or later.
He would probably want to tell Belle about him, but then that would reveal his own past….and he probably wouldn’t want her to know that Hook had a just reason to go after him. So I guess that leaves Rumpel in an interesting situation. But who is to say that he won’t go after Hook as soon as he knows he is in storybrooke? And if Emma and Hook have become friends, and they came back together, then it would be that much harder to get at hook. I guess that is a bad situation.
Or, the moment hook got there he would go confront Rumpel. Maybe even find Rumpel with Belle eating hamburgers. 😉 haha.

I don’t know if Hook would wait that long though–to become close to belle and seduce her. That would take a while, and I don’t think it would even work.

[Ziera]

@PriceofMagic wrote:

I can see Hook going after Belle because she is Rumple’s weakness in Storybrooke. I don’t think he will harm her because that would have Rumple coming at him at full force.

Yeah… but if you think about it, Hook has a plan…to get revenge on Rumpel. Right now as far as we know, he doesn’t know about Belle. She would just be a bonus. And if she is a bonus, he might kill her/harm her because he already has a plan for Rumpel, one he is pretty confident in, his plan A. Now that he has the means to kill Rumpel supposedly, why not add in his true love Belle?

*SWANFIRE* keeper of Neal's dream catcher

[Ziera]

@TheTrickster wrote:

Well, she is still protected by Rumplestiltskin -he acts like an obsessive and overprotective man regarding people he loves, so- but, she has also a werewoman as friend, so she is not an easy victim.

First off, I do think she is an easy target, actually…more cause she is all alone in the Library. Before she was with Rumpel, which would make it near impossible to get to her. But now…she isn’t in a place he can help her always. I’m not saying he can’t protect her, he would do anything for her, but i’m saying he wouldn’t be with her as much anymore. She is vulnerable. In regards to Red…Red isn’t with Belle all the time either. She would help her, yes, but only if she knew she needed help.

@TheTrickster wrote:

Mhm… I think he is going after the dagger. But if I were Hook, I would have a plan B, just in case it doesn’t work. What sort of magic and-or weapons are in Neverland? I can’t remember an specific Neverland thing that could help to kill Rumplestiltskin… What is sure is that he wants Rumplestiltskin dead, and that whatever his plan could be, it is related to kill him.

That is a good point…but would he really want to become the dark one? I don’t remember, haha. But since it is a relatively different world with different magic, who knows what he could have found?

@TheTrickster wrote:

However, she is also a really tempting “prologue to revenge” for Hook… I believe he would try to seduct her.

At the end that is what can hurt more: by killing her, just make Rumplestiltskin get angry and project his fury towards Hook, which can result in a clever last time victory for the wizard.

By telling Belle what her “true love” did, he doesn’t achieve anything: Belle is not so naive as to think Rumplestiltskin is a good guy, she knew his reputation even before know him. It could be a bit shocked, but at the end the information wouldn’t change anything between them.

BUT, by seducting her, Rumplestiltskin is double broken: he wouldn’t kill Belle, and probably he wouldn’t even try to kill Hook not to hurt her. -yes, I think Rumplestiltskin in love is weaker in this respect than he was before. I can’t imagine him killing Belle or hurting someone she loves, whoever s/he could be-
That gives Hook chance to fulfill his revenge, and in the time, he can enjoy watching how his enemy suffering the same humiliation being the Dark One that he suffered being the village coward.

Hmmm…interesting thoughts. I don’t think he would go that far? I don’t know…to me, it seems that Hook would be more likely to either kill her or idk. That is possible though.

By telling Belle that, I think it would scare her. I don’t think she would go, ‘Oh well. He had a wife and killed her. Ripped out her heart.’
Though she knows that he has done some not so great things, I think this is a little different. He had killed his wife- someone he possibly had loved. Whats to stop him from doing it to her? She wouldn’t know- unless she is sure of something different with them. I definitely think she would confront him about it.

I could almost see Hook befriending her, gaining trust, then telling her this- as a warning to keep her safe. I could see him turning her against him in that way, maybe even making her feel sorry for him. Poor captain hook. 😛

But no…anything could end up happening, and those are some good points…But I think Belle is stronger than to give in to Hook in that way. She is pretty loyal. I’m still leaning toward him trying to kill her though…too perfect a chance to kill Rumpel’s true love in revenge for killing his own true love.

@TheTrickster wrote:

No matter Hook’s intentions, I expect Belle’s character stronger than that.

Lets hope so. 😛 🙂

@MagicKingdomღ wrote:

In regards to Hook and Belle, my heart is aching for her right now. I could totally see Hook wanting to harm Belle as his way of exacting revenge upon Rumpel for killing Milha. I’m really worried for Belle right now. 🙁

I know! Me too. 😮 🙂

*SWANFIRE* keeper of Neal's dream catcher

[Ziera]

@Phee wrote:

Not only is he carrying the burden of his own mistakes, but also the burden of his father’s mistake. Pinocchio didn’t ask for this role, and it’s in his nature to not be well behaved, so he’s struggling, and I think that struggle, and his mistakes, are understandable.

THAT is an excellent point. He is carrying around his father’s mistake. You’re right.

And also right about a lot of things. I think that we are quick to judge a lot of these characters for what they do, saying, ‘oh thats wrong that he did that, I hate him.’ When really we’d do the same or similar in their position. We think its wrong cause it is, and it is good we know that its wrong… but as you said, we all do wrong things.
I can relate to him a lot.

Also about Neal–

I personally really want him to get back with Emma. I know he chose to do this because of whatever August had in the box..but I’m thinking that it is something pretty darn crazy for him to have actually left her. I think he really was regretting the decision, and feeling awful about what happened to Emma. He would have traded places with her, I think. But this isn’t really on topic…haha. You’re right, he did do what August told him.

*SWANFIRE* keeper of Neal's dream catcher

[Ziera]

@Schmacky wrote:

Yeah I get it. It’s some half *(please avoid obscenities)* plan to get Emma back on track and he didn’t really put any thought into it because he’s just thinking “oh crap oh crap I messed up” instead of taking a moment and realizing “oh crap, I’m messing up EVEN MORE.”

I don’t just dislike him because of what he did in Portland. But also how he acted when he arrived in SB. Knowing what happened in Portland, he comes into SB so.. full of himself and sure of everything and even demeans Emma in a certain way. I don’t like his attitude knowing he had found her before.

edit: And left her. Again.

no, yeah, you’re right though.

I guess I just feel sorry for him, cause I don’t think people understand what he is/had going/gone through with everything resting on him to do all this stuff for everyone in the Enchanted Forest….;)
Even though all the things he did were just kind of wrong.
We will continue to see this though. And I heard that there is going to be an episode about his life in the real world? That should be interesting…I wonder if everyone will change their feelings for him once again when they see his side of the story.

😉 When August told Neal to leave Emma…My heart melted when he was like, “Never.”

*SWANFIRE* keeper of Neal's dream catcher

[Ziera]

@Schmacky wrote:

Yeah I get it. It’s some half *(please avoid obscenities)* plan to get Emma back on track and he didn’t really put any thought into it because he’s just thinking “oh crap oh crap I messed up” instead of taking a moment and realizing “oh crap, I’m messing up EVEN MORE.”

I don’t just dislike him because of what he did in Portland. But also how he acted when he arrived in SB. Knowing what happened in Portland, he comes into SB so.. full of himself and sure of everything and even demeans Emma in a certain way. I don’t like his attitude knowing he had found her before.

edit: And left her. Again.

hahaha no, EF meaning Enchanted Forest. 😉

*SWANFIRE* keeper of Neal's dream catcher

[Ziera]

@LisaFromOH wrote:

Welcome, Ziera! I agree; Skin Deep and Red Handed are excellent episodes.

Thank you kindly! Yes they are. 😉 You have good taste.

*SWANFIRE* keeper of Neal's dream catcher

[Ziera]

@Schmacky wrote:

He ultimately just wanted her to be safe. He wasn’t being observant though of her feelings, thats true.

This is the only motivation I can see for August to do the crap he did. He said something about her being safe in the system but now she’s out. Since he isn’t actively involved in her life and therefore unable to literally protect her, he’s afraid something bad will happen to her. Like, she’ll die. He wants to keep her holed up and safe. If he could put her in a tower, he probably would. She was safe in the system, she’ll be safe in jail, etc etc… he doesn’t think of her as a person but as some object he needs to keep safe.

I still dislike him. Oh, so very much. He’s pompous and arrogant and self-righteous and selfish.

I’m not saying he isnt stupid..but I can sympathize with him a little.

Also- he does have like a huge job on his shoulders. He has to make sure Emma is okay for 28 years, then make sure she goes and believes and brakes the curse…it is a lot.

You have some really good points. 😉

I think that he wouldn’t put her in a tower or do anything like that. I think he realizes that he hasn’t done his job, made a mess of things, etc, and he needs to get back in control, cause the whole EF is counting on him. Thats pretty scary. I would be scared. (especially if I’d messed around for a while.) I would almost rather be cursed than to risk everybody’s lives. He (I thought) was in that moment where you know you need to fix something… fast. You know like, if you are at someone’s house you don’t know, and you push over a wooden lamp. (the person is there) You rush to put it back up again. Its in that moment you can’t breathe, until everything is back the way it was… That rush for control.

hahaha I don’t know if I’m making much sense, but it makes sense in my mind. 🙂

*SWANFIRE* keeper of Neal's dream catcher

[Ziera]

@Schmacky wrote:

I’m not necessarily super upset at August for breaking them up. I think it was a stupid thing to do. I think he was being a little self-righteous in making those choices for Emma and believing that she or Neal couldn’t change their lifestyle. I mean, if Neal now believed, wouldn’t he stop this life of crime (that they were going to do anyway) because Emma is meant for greatness? But anyway, I can almost let it slide that he broke them up… almost.

But the truly horrible thing he did? Set that girl up for jail time and making her believe she was betrayed by the one person she loved. I’ll even give him the benefit of the doubt and say he thought there was absolutely NO other way to get this girl to understand that crime isn’t the way and she needs to live an honest life. But 11 months? And being betrayed? Why? Why was that necessary? He could have set Emma up for some small thing where she served 30 days in jail.. enough to scare her straight. And he could have convinced Neal to just break it off with Emma and leave her alone.

But no.. he had to rip that girl’s heart out and stomp around on it. The shadiest, saddest, most messed up way possible.. that’s what August did.

And then what makes it worse? He promised Neal he’d take care of Emma. He convinced this man to leave her alone and now he can’t take care of her so he promises he’ll do it in his stead. What does he do? Breaks that promise and drifts out of her life yet again.

August served absolutely no purpose in coming back into Emma’s life except to ruin it. He didn’t help Emma along her path, he didn’t ensure the savior would believe. If anything, he made the road to her belief even more difficult. Now she’s going to have crazy trust issues so.. good job August!

Yeah, I get that. What he did wasn’t right, but it came from a place of regret that he had for his past decisions. He wanted to make it ok again, and he felt he needed to go out of his way to ‘help’ Emma. I don’t think he was thinking about what she would feel. I think that he realized he had messed up pretty bad, and wanted to suddenly come back and do what was right, even if he went too far. In his mind it was ok at the time.
He ultimately just wanted her to be safe. He wasn’t being observant though of her feelings, thats true. He did brake her heart…and I think he is going to realize that more and more in the upcoming episodes, and it might brake him in their confrontation.

*SWANFIRE* keeper of Neal's dream catcher

[Ziera]

@beautyistruth wrote:

I’d like to see both be redeemed, though I use that word rather cautiously. I don’t necessarily need them to turn into happy, saintly people who sew clothes for the poor and sing birds out of trees, and I also don’t need them to be broken people who wallow in the guilt of their past actions.

I’d like them (and for the most part all of the characters) to come to a place of peace, even if it’s not an absolutely perfect, wonderful, utopic ending. I don’t need to see one villain dragged down to the depths while everybody cheers and dances on their grave in order to feel satisfied with the ending. I tend not to see stories in terms of villains and heroes, but in terms of people who want different things who work together, against, or diagonally with each other at different points in time 🙂

I’d like Regina to put her obsessive, angry need for revenge aside, realize that she was wrong (a big one, as I don’t think I’ve really seen much of that from her yet), and develop some healthy relationships. Props to Daniel for telling her to “love again!”

I’d like Belle to lift Rumple’s curse, as I think it has some tangible affect on his free will, and I’d like him to find Bae and have some sort of closure with that, which does not necessitate that they have a big happy family with tons of step-siblings and barbecues. I don’t know how much of this stems from my shipping, and how much of it stems from what I consider a good story arc, but I want Rumple and Belle’s love to endure. This might be because I’m quite invested in the Beauty and the Beast aspect of their story, and I think that thematically, that fairytale necessitates that the Beast be redeemed by love. Additionally, they’ve thrown around the phrase “true love can break any curse” and for me to truly believe that, I want to see that it ends up being stronger than all the ramifications of Rumple’s curse and is ultimately strong enough to redeem the Dark One, which would be an amazing statement about the power of love. I would be quite sad if that storyline didn’t make it to endgame. It would diminish the “power of love” theme that the show keeps hammering on, in my mind.

I’d like him to stop needing magic as a crutch. He seems to know he’s a monster, he’s confessed that he’s a coward, and he’s expressed regret in the past, for example, in the scene with “Bae”/August. He does seem to be trying to change, but I think that he’s operated in monster-mode for so long that it’s his default reaction when he feels threatened or endangered (such as with Smee). Though, I will contend that from what we saw, he wasn’t particularly violent with Smee, who had just kidnapped and tried to mind-wipe Belle. Compared to DarkRumple who turned a man into a slug for accidentally skinning Bae’s knee, I see that as a small step forward. (My head canon says that he didn’t beat the snot out of Smee off-screen 🙂 ) I actually love the struggle they’re portraying with his character.

That is one key thing I’m missing with Regina’s arc… the closest thing we’ve gotten is the “I don’t know how to love very well” confession from her, but that doesn’t go far enough for me. Adam seemed to hint that Belle might confront Regina about locking her up and I’m -really- hoping for that confrontation. That will be a chance for Regina to show her true colors as far as her pathway to redemption!

Yeah…I could agree. About a lot of that. 😉

On one note– I think that Belle and Bealfire are the only people in his life that are keeping him/a part of him sane/good. He is trying to change right now we see for belle, cause he values her love. He hasn’t opened up probably to anyone before…since like what happened with Bey. It was a step in courage to admit those things to her, and also really humbling for him too. This all gives me hope for his character to be redeemed– but he has done some horrific things.

This is on another different note:
I’m thinking when Daniel told Regina to love again, maybe this is just me…but that it meant that he wanted her to have her love back. Like I said earlier…he was her love for a while. She had kind of made it sound to herself that if she didn’t have him, she didn’t have her love either. I think that when he died he took a lot of her love, and before she let him go, he told her to ‘love again’. I don’t know…just somewhere around that she could have love again in her heart. I’m not sure if this is making any sense…hahaha. and yesh.

*SWANFIRE* keeper of Neal's dream catcher

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