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Self-depreciation is a character trait of Snow. As well as naivety apparently when it comes to trusting random people you’ve never met before such as Zelena. Mean Snow was great when she drank the potion to forget Charming but normal Snow thinks everything is her fault. Even though she had no other choice but to kill Cora, Snow still feels quilt over it because that is what any normal person with a clear conscience would feel over taking a life.
But that’s not my issue. My issue is the show making it seem like more than a character trait. It makes it seem like Snow is wrong. As I said above. There are even consequences regarding Regina when she doesn’t apologize. Yes, a normal person would feel terrible, but Snow has consistently done this even before Cora. It’s just exhausting. It’s a character trait if she feels that way. It’s the message of the show if every time she doesn’t feel that way, she gets a slap to the face. So, the scene is still ruined for me, and as long as Regina only has a good word to Snow when she’s sorry, it just sucks.
Oh I see.
The show is making it seem like Regina is the victim because Snow is constantly apologizing while no one is apologizing to her.
That does have some merit. The show, since S2, has been less focused on the heroes and more on the pain of the villains.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Interesting concept, RG, I’ll have to read the meta. Screwball Ninja’s stuff is usually quite good.
I think the words are always good to hear, and you’re right, they should be said. But sometimes you have to look at the actions that go with them. How hollow is Regina’s ‘sorry I killed like, 1000 people’ in comparison to her now actively supporting Snow? The protection spell around the apt, for example. Though totally useless, because none of them actually stay IN the apt…the act itself is kind. And it comes from a place of honestly wanting to protect Snow because I think she’s finally starting to see the girl she met all those years ago and truly find love for her again.
Hook’s apology to Belle. Totally smart-mouthed. Because that’s how he gets when he’s anxious. And frankly, I still think Belle should’ve punched him in the face to really seal the deal. But, I think it was heartfelt.
Rumple…from the very beginning we’ve seen Rumple’s conflict. His regret for decisions he’s made, especially as they related to Neal. In Rumple’s situation, I’m glad the words were said. Because A&E had to go and screw up that whole storyline. But had they NOT, I would’ve wanted to see a lot more of Rumple showing Neal how sorry he was for his actions, more than seeing him say he’s sorry.
When in doubt, quote Screwball
OH LOL and ROFL and everything inbetween!!!! That was awsome and brilliant, funny and insightfull 😀 I had never seen that essay. Great thing you put it here RG!! Thank you <3
Self-depreciation is a character trait of Snow. As well as naivety apparently when it comes to trusting random people you’ve never met before such as Zelena. Mean Snow was great when she drank the potion to forget Charming but normal Snow thinks everything is her fault. Even though she had no other choice but to kill Cora, Snow still feels quilt over it because that is what any normal person with a clear conscience would feel over taking a life.
When in doubt, quote Screwball The One OUAT Essay You Have To Read According to Screwball the main thesis for the characters of OUAT is that they are constantly reliving their worst experiences. With Snow, this is watching her mother die and knowing that she chose not to sacrifice another life to save Eva. Because Snow literally had her mother’s life in her hands but chose not to act, Snow feels forever guilty about things other people do toward her. They are somehow all her fault, hence the constant apologizing. Her constant need to throw herself on the pyre, so to speak, is born out of guilt for “letting” her own mother die.
Refer to my other comment to PoM. It’s not the trait that gets to me. It’s the consequences of her breaking out of that trait to help herself, and how Regina’s character is portrayed in regards to that.
Neal treated Rumpel pretty badly, but Rumpel deserved it. However, if when Neal was alive, every time he didn’t hug his papa hello, he got a kick in the knees until he did, that’s arguably the show saying “Neal should treat his dad better. This is Karma.” But that’s not what happened. Neal wasn’t punished for what he did to Rumpel. No one tried or succeed in hurting Neal physically or emotionally every time Rumpel wasn’t forgiven. That’s why fans understood Neal’s predicament. However, in the same episode, I saw people on the “Kill Snow” bandwagon, for hurting Regina (TMD). It’s all about how those situation are portrayed. Like at the end of a fairytale when you’re given the moral.
Edit: Nevemind, RG. I saw your comment up top. Yeah…that’s how it feels to me. I’m sorry it all came out in such a ranty fashion.
Just because things are in the past doesn’t mean that there doesn’t need to be some sort of mea culpa from the 3 “villains”
Regina may have been manipulated by forces like Rumple but that doesn’t change the fact that she made choices. She chose to turn around, go back to Leo’s palace, marry him, and learn magic. And when she was offered a way out (perhaps not a great one, but one) she ran. And then she chose to pursue darkness and did do horrible things. She did them.
Past is in the past is great and all but until you lay your sins bear and ask for forgiveness there is no growth. Rumple sacrificed his life to save Bae and Belle but he still owes one heck of an apology to Emma and Snowing. 🙂
And if you’re going with the whole “past is in the past” motto then that means that Snow doesn’t owe Regina anything either. It means that Snow shouldn’t apologize for telling a secret or for her part in Cora’s death.
Can’t have it both ways. Either everyone apologizes and tries to move past the hurt or no one apologizes and it’s stagnant.
AMEN!!!! Very well stated RG.
Don’t forget Regina destroy several families Hansel and Gretel, others whose family was split up.
I think the words are always good to hear, and you’re right, they should be said. But sometimes you have to look at the actions that go with them. How hollow is Regina’s ‘sorry I killed like, 1000 people’ in comparison to her now actively supporting Snow? The protection spell around the apt, for example. Though totally useless, because none of them actually stay IN the apt…the act itself is kind. And it comes from a place of honestly wanting to protect Snow because I think she’s finally starting to see the girl she met all those years ago and truly find love for her again.
I agree. I’d been fine (not great, but fine) if she didn’t apologize. It’s the fact that Snow is literally punished when she does something that (I’m sorry to say it) needs to be done. And that they keep having her do it. A&E may not see it, but it’s putting a bad light on Regina’s redemption, not because she didn’t apologize back, but because Snow did again. If the game has always been that everybody says sorry to make Regina happy, then Regina admitting her mother is terrible, is smothered by Snow’s apology. It’s a hard thing to get by.
Just like with Rumpel having to show that he can do the right thing without Belle in his ear, Regina has to show that she can hold her own when people aren’t on her side, or don’t care about her pain (rightfully, of course). The only way to fix this (in my eyes) is for Snow to stand up for herself at least once without getting whipped, and for Regina to…not like it…but live with it.
Rumple…from the very beginning we’ve seen Rumple’s conflict. His regret for decisions he’s made, especially as they related to Neal. In Rumple’s situation, I’m glad the words were said. Because A&E had to go and screw up that whole storyline. But had they NOT, I would’ve wanted to see a lot more of Rumple showing Neal how sorry he was for his actions, more than seeing him say he’s sorry.
‘kay. I’ll be over here in this corner eating my feelings.
When in doubt, quote Screwball
OH LOL and ROFL and everything inbetween!!!! That was awsome and brilliant, funny and insightfull
I had never seen that essay. Great thing you put it here RG!! Thank you <3 [/quote]She write a lot of really great things. I really suggest reading some more of her
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Okay…I’m sorry you guys. I can’t like this. I’m sorry. I should like this scene, but I don’t…I can’t even begin to stop rolling my eyes. I enjoy all of the bonding and crap, but I’m tired of self-depreciating Snow. I have never liked her as a character, but even I can see that she has never deserved the emotional beating she gives herself for Regina. I’d be fine if it felt more like a character trait of hers, but it doesn’t. It’s gotten to the point where I feel like the show is telling us that Regina does deserve Snows niceness more than Snow deserves Regina’s. There have even been consequences for Snow every time she doesn’t gut herself for Regina’s favor. How many times past and future has Snow’s lack of forgiveness made Regina cry, and feel under appreciated, and go back to being bad (even for a couple eps)? Too freaking many. How many times have they shown that Regina is completely “justified” in not caring about ruining Snow’s life through her actions or otherwise? Too freaking many. I mean, even when Snow kills an obviously evil Cora to save her family, because it hurt Regina Snow must apologize, when for some time now, the murder of her father has been pushed under the rug? As if someone murdering your only remaining parent shortly after you witness your mother’s death, you are supposed to break your back t rehabilitate that person? At this point, if Regina slapped Snow in the face, and hurt her hand while doing it, Snow would apologize for her face being too hard. It gets me even more because Snow was a kid to Regina, yet she’s still being treated like everything this woman did is her fault. I’m not saying that Snow should shun Regina. I just think it’d be better if she treated Regina the way she treats Rumpel. It’s the “I accept you, and try to stand by you because you are my family, but you are a bastard, and It’ll take me a minute to like you like that” kind of treatment. It’s realistic, and human for goodness sake. Or at the very least, just once, I would like her to not take it upon herself to apologize for Regina’s situation. She’s been doing it for the entire show. I’m tired of seeing it, and frankly, this conversation being based on her apology again completely ruins any happiness I would have had at Regina having character growth. But you know what? Now it doesn’t even feel like Regina’s getting character growth. It just felt like Regina was once again content in having Snow admit that she was “wrong”. It’s the same game over and over again. Town likes me, I’m fine. Town doesn’t like me, I’m going to kill them with my mother. Why do you think they were able to play that fake out of her becoming evil again when everyone thought she’d cast curse no. 2? Because she’s already done it enough to make a fake out! This is the same thing I felt about Rumpel not growing because Belle was being his conscience too much. So now, I’m putting this onto Regina, as well. I will not consider Regina redeemed or developed in any way in regards to Snow until she decides to take responsibility and maintain her goodness even when Snow and everyone else in the galaxy is saying “I’m not sorry, and I shouldn’t be”. Sorry guys. I had to rant. This was three seasons of rant sitting on my chest. Sorry.
All I have to say… Regina is Snow White’s Step Mother in the end…whether they like it or not…which I think they’re liking it!
And RG and HE…as far as the Cora death and Daniel death thing goes…I think Regina and Snow really let out there frustration in that blowout in NL(which Regina won) and that’s why we can say the Past is in the Past….Snow and Regina would be there all day if Regina went down saying how she was sorry about everything…
Sometimes…it’s best to let it go. Both have done their wrong toward the other, and cannot take back…so just move forward which is what they’re doing. 🙂
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Just because things are in the past doesn’t mean that there doesn’t need to be some sort of mea culpa from the 3 “villains” Regina may have been manipulated by forces like Rumple but that doesn’t change the fact that she made choices. She chose to turn around, go back to Leo’s palace, marry him, and learn magic. And when she was offered a way out (perhaps not a great one, but one) she ran. And then she chose to pursue darkness and did do horrible things. She did them. Past is in the past is great and all but until you lay your sins bear and ask for forgiveness there is no growth. Rumple sacrificed his life to save Bae and Belle but he still owes one heck of an apology to Emma and Snowing.
And if you’re going with the whole “past is in the past” motto then that means that Snow doesn’t owe Regina anything either. It means that Snow shouldn’t apologize for telling a secret or for her part in Cora’s death. Can’t have it both ways. Either everyone apologizes and tries to move past the hurt or no one apologizes and it’s stagnant.AMEN!!!! Very well stated RG. Don’t forget Regina destroy several families Hansel and Gretel, others whose family was split up.
Ok….just need to add a few things to set the record straight on the Queen’s behalf…
1. Regina was in fact…the purest woman ever on the show aside from Belle…(and don’t bring up Snow because she was a snooty thing when she was young). When I look at the fact of…entrusting a secret that you begged and pleaded with a 10 year old girl to keep, and we all knew what a secret was. And when you specify to not tell your mother, and the girl goes behind your back and does it anyway….uhhh….yeah…I’d be pretty (beep) off about that.
Snow obviously knew what a secret was because she kept Miss Blue Fairy’s, and she’s not as naïve as we thought she was because she was all of a sudden wise enough to not use the dark candle on Eva. So Snow knew right from wrong, and I still say…a part of Snow White wanted to tell that secret to get Regina. Hence shown in The Stable Boy when she was cursed Mary Margret, and was being interrogated…she said and I quote: “Yes I wanted her gone…she was the only thing that was keeping us apart, so yeah I wanted her gone! Is that what you wanna hear?”
No matter how you twist it…that was the very small 15 percent of Snow White that felt the same way about Daniel, but that may not have been where she was mostly coming from when she told Cora the secret. But a small part of her…really didn’t care too much about keeping that secret.
2. As far as the Rumpelstilskin situation goes…he’s been pining after Regina before she was even conceived. He had plans to make his monster for 300 years. After all is said and done…he convinces Regina to send Cora away. Had Rumple not stopped Regina on that road…she would have LEFT! HE convinced her to stay by using her newfound love for magic, and asked her to let him teach her magic. Though he said it was entirely up to her if she became like Cora…he didn’t give her a choice because he stole what could have been her Second chance with Daniel had he not hired Jefferson and Whale to break her even further down. Thus he got his “monster”.
And must I bring up the Robin Hood situation…he fed her constantly that she was trapped to be dark because the darkness had already tasted her, So by the time the time comes for Regina to meet Robin…she’s too scared and blinded by his dark influence to let go of her hatred(that Rumple instigated) for Snow White.
As for Zelena….I do so believe that she was the one who was supposed to cast his curse. But I can’t necessarily blame Rumple for that part because he never knew Cora already had her first born, and we can all agree Zelena was a bit crazy. But I wonder why Rumple never told Regina she had a psychotic sister…could have warned the Queen at least 😛 .
3. The Cora and Snow situation. Yes…Cora killed Eva, and it’s not entirely justifiable as of yet. It may not be…we don’t know. All we can go on is that Eva was a snooty brat when she was younger…and tripped Cora(kind of cruel). We’ll have to watch Bleeding Through to learn more of these two enemies story.
But Snow killed Eva Cora out of vengeance…period point blank. She used Cora’s threat as an excuse to have a justifiable reason in killing her, because had it been really justifiable…Snow wouldn’t have that black spot on her heart. So yeah…she killed Cora out of vengeance. And God pray….Zelena never learns that she did that, because she seems like the type of girl with an eye for an eye(#SaveSnowingBaby)
That sums up my defense of the Queen….
Keep Calm And Ship OUTLAW QUEEN
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
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