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I know I’m going to get flack for saying this, but I’m not so sure Neal *would* be appalled at what Rumple did. Honestly, I think he’d be more upset at Rumple for lying than for killing Zelena. This is not some guy who accidentally nicked him with his cart. This is a women who threatened the lives of everyone Neal loved. No one was opposed to Rumple killing Pan- even Belle stood there and watched as he was about to do it. (I’m talking about when they had the Henry Pan, not the end when everyone was frozen in place.) I think some of you paint Neal as this patron saint when he’s not. Deep down, he is his father’s son. If Henry had been killed, Neal might not be so quick to allow the murderer to live either.
I don’t even see killing Zelena as selfish. He shouldn’t have done it behind everyone’s back after it was agreed to let her live, but he did it because she caused the death of his son. Any parent can relate to that desire. He wanted justice. I’m sorry, but while Rumple’s method was certainly questionable and tricking Belle was awful, I just don’t see wanting the death of someone who cruelly manipulated your son to his own death as selfish.
Going back to Robin and Marian…honestly, if he had just cut her off completely and there was not that grain of hope, their story would be over. What’s the fun in that? We’d have nothing but a brooding Regina in S4. Now Regina’s about to go on a journey that may start out for selfish reasons but could very well lead to some interesting discoveries for Regina. Anyway, she would probably have tried to get Marian out of the picture no matter what- even if Robin had just told her that he’d chosen Marian. Even if Robin did want to be with Regina over Marian, he is from a world in which divorce didn’t really exist. He felt bound by his word.
[adrotate group="5"]I know I’m going to get flack for saying this, but I’m not so sure Neal *would* be appalled at what Rumple did. Honestly, I think he’d be more upset at Rumple for lying than for killing Zelena. This is not some guy who accidentally nicked him with his cart. This is a women who threatened the lives of everyone Neal loved. No one was opposed to Rumple killing Pan- even Belle stood there and watched as he was about to do it. (I’m talking about when they had the Henry Pan, not the end when everyone was frozen in place.) I think some of you paint Neal as this patron saint when he’s not. Deep down, he is his father’s son. If Henry had been killed, Neal might not be so quick to allow the murderer to live either.
“Killing Lost Boys, we don’t have to do that..” Peter Pan had Neal’s son captive, and still Neal took the path of not murder. He crossed worlds as a young boy trying to get his father back to be not a murderer. He was horrified at Rumple’s murder of the maid and stood in horror as his father killed how many guards when he became the Dark One? He yelled “no papa!” how many times when Rumple turned the man into a slug and crushed him.
I don’t see Neal as a patron saint and I am one of his biggest fans. But he was a good man. And you’re forgetting something: a trial and justice. If Zelena needed to be put to death for murdering someone, there is a process. Rumple took the law into his hands, just like he does in the past when he murders others. I don’t care that Zelena is dead. I care that Rumple takes magic and the law into his own hands. Neal would absolutely have been opposed to brutally killing another person. And that’s not me whitewashing him or saying he’s a saint or some godsend or perfect. Of course he’s not. I recognize his flaws and his weaknesses but I also recognize his strengths. Rumple committing murder against a woman stripped of her powers, alone, in a jail cell…yeah, no. Neal would have been against that.
Anyway, she would probably have tried to get Marian out of the picture no matter what- even if Robin had just told her that he’d chosen Marian.
And we’re applauding this? We’re okay with this? We consider this good character development and reasonable storytelling?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"“Killing Lost Boys, we don’t have to do that..” Peter Pan had Neal’s son captive, and still Neal took the path of not murder. He crossed worlds as a young boy trying to get his father back to be not a murderer. He was horrified at Rumple’s murder of the maid and stood in horror as his father killed how many guards when he became the Dark One? He yelled “no papa!” how many times when Rumple turned the man into a slug and crushed him. I don’t see Neal as a patron saint and I am one of his biggest fans. But he was a good man. And you’re forgetting something: a trial and justice. If Zelena needed to be put to death for murdering someone, there is a process. Rumple took the law into his hands, just like he does in the past when he murders others. I don’t care that Zelena is dead. I care that Rumple takes magic and the law into his own hands. Neal would absolutely have been opposed to brutally killing another person. And that’s not me whitewashing him or saying he’s a saint or some godsend or perfect. Of course he’s not. I recognize his flaws and his weaknesses but I also recognize his strengths. Rumple committing murder against a woman stripped of her powers, alone, in a jail cell…yeah, no. Neal would have been against that.
Well, like I said, Neal wouldn’t have approved of Rumple’s *methods* and taking the law into his own hands, but he would have understood his state of mind and his desire for Zelena to die The Lost Boys were just Pan’s minions. The maid was completely innocent. The guards were cruel, but not deserving of murder, and those who were turned into slugs weren’t deserving either. This is an entirely different situation. Zelena was a killer. I think Neal would have been a little more forgiving given the circumstances.
And we’re applauding this? We’re okay with this? We consider this good character development and reasonable storytelling?
Actually, yes. I think it would be out of character for Regina to just let it go or do nothing but brood. She’s not going to go from Evil Queen to a complete good guy in every way even after what happened with Zelena. I would expect her to still have evil thoughts now and then. Old habits die hard. I applaud Regina for not following through with her S1 way of thinking. She almost backslid too far, but she pulled herself away after seeing her old self in the mirror. That’s character development. Her new choice leads into her S4 A arc of trying to learn more about the book- a story that I think it’s going to be very interesting. I do not think Marian is going to end up in a bad way by the end of all this. I think Regina is about to have a journey of self discovery.
Zelena was a killer. I think Neal would have been a little more forgiving given the circumstances.
1) Actually technically speaking Zelena wasn’t. She led Neal by way of manipulation, but she never pulled the metaphorical trigger on Neal or anyone.
2) She was defeated and broken. Her powers were literally stripped. At that moment, she’s a monster but a toothless one. And Neal, who grew up with a literal Dark One monster, but still wanted to find a way to save his beloved Papa even though Papa was murdering people, would have given the same consideration to Zelena.
She almost backslid too far, but she pulled herself away after seeing her old self in the mirror. That’s character development.
And then decided she was going to get her happy ending come what may, no matter who’s happy ending she ruins in the process. She thinks her happy ending is Robin, it doesn’t matter right now what it actually is. Her idea of happily ever after is Robin, which means she’s taking away Marian’s HEA and Roland’s who deserves to have a mother. That’s not development. That is straight up S1 Regina, the Evil Queen.
I glad Regina didn’t let Marian get squashed by giant snowman, though I don’t think she gets a cookie for it because again: not murdering someone is not something you reward. But her final decision, complete with EQ music, was that she gets her happy ending no matter what.
I do not think Marian is going to end up in a bad way by the end of all this.
Disagree. I think Marian is toast either by “fate” or “villain”
I think Regina is about to have a journey of self discovery.
Well, yeah. I mean…of course she is. Doesn’t mean she won’t screw people over in the process.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I would be disappointed in Neal if he didn’t understand Rumple’s reasoning at least a little bit, personally. There were times when I thought he was a little too harsh with Rumple. I still don’t see Rumple’s motives as selfish in this case. Any parent in his situation would have wished to do the same- most just wouldn’t actually follow through.
As for Regina, we are only one episode in. Let’s see what happens. Just because she starts out determined to have her happy ending no matter what the cost doesn’t mean that will be her way of thinking the entire time.
If Robin really wishes he could be with Regina, than forcing him to be with Marian isn’t anyone’s happy ending. Roland deserves parents who want to be together- not parents who only stay together for the sake of their child. Marian could yet find another happy ending, and Roland can still have his mother in his life. I will be disappointed if Marian gets rekilled so Robin can be with Regina, though, so I’m very much hoping you are wrong.
And she didn’t just choose not to kill Marian. She actually saved her life. She could have just let the snow man do her in- no blood would have been on her hands. There’s a part of her that doesn’t want Marian to see her as a monster anymore.
I know I’m going to get flack for saying this, but I’m not so sure Neal *would* be appalled at what Rumple did. Honestly, I think he’d be more upset at Rumple for lying than for killing Zelena. This is not some guy who accidentally nicked him with his cart. This is a women who threatened the lives of everyone Neal loved. No one was opposed to Rumple killing Pan- even Belle stood there and watched as he was about to do it. (I’m talking about when they had the Henry Pan, not the end when everyone was frozen in place.) I think some of you paint Neal as this patron saint when he’s not. Deep down, he is his father’s son. If Henry had been killed, Neal might not be so quick to allow the murderer to live either.
I agree. Everyone was happy to kill Pan when they thought he was a threat to Henry. They took him over the town line so he would be powerless and Emma planned to shoot him in the head. I bet if the heart of the truest believer had belonged to anyone else other than Henry who wasn’t in the CharmingMillsStiltskin family circle, the heroes wouldn’t have even intervened, Pan would’ve succeeded in living forever and everybody would’ve just gone about their daily business.
I don’t even see killing Zelena as selfish. He shouldn’t have done it behind everyone’s back after it was agreed to let her live, but he did it because she caused the death of his son.
It wasn’t agreed to let her live. Regina alone decided to let her live. Regina really annoyed me in the Kansas episode just because of her hypocrisy. You know had it been Henry that died because of Zelena, Regina would’ve wasted no time in killing her. There should’ve been a trial but their wasn’t. There’s a reason why victims and the families of the perpetrators aren’t allowed to be on a jury at their trial.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI would be disappointed in Neal if he didn’t understand Rumple’s reasoning at least a little bit, personally. There were times when I thought he was a little too harsh with Rumple. I still don’t see Rumple’s motives as selfish in this case. Any parent in his situation would have wished to do the same- most just wouldn’t actually follow through.
There’s a big difference between understanding and condoning. I understand why Rumple did it, I do not condone it, and IMO, neither would Neal. He would have said, “yes, you can be mad that this woman led me to my death and locked you up for a year and made you crazy, but you don’t get to take that into your hands and kill a defenseless woman.”
I will just agree to disagree on being too harsh with Rumple. Victims of abuse and abandonment don’t owe their victimizers anything “fair” no matter how much they may love them.
And she didn’t just choose not to kill Marian. She actually saved her life. She could have just let the snow man do her in- no blood would have been on her hands. There’s a part of her that doesn’t want Marian to see her as a monster anymore.
Actually, yes, there would have been blood on her hands. She saw Marian in distress and turned around and walked away. Then she came back. Had she not come back, she would have been guilty leaving a crime in progress.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"agree. Everyone was happy to kill Pan when they thought he was a threat to Henry. They took him over the town line so he would be powerless and Emma planned to shoot him in the head.
1) We do not know that Emma was going to shoot him in the head. She had the gun for protection. Malevolent intent has not been established. In fact they take Panry out to the town line to TALK, because Emma is very suspcious that something is going on with Henry.
2) No one was planning on killing Pan. In fact we don’t know what the overall plan was. They might have just been planning to swap bodies and then put the real Pan in the box.
I bet if the heart of the truest believer had belonged to anyone else other than Henry who wasn’t in the CharmingMillsStiltskin family circle, the heroes wouldn’t have even intervened, Pan would’ve succeeded in living forever and everybody would’ve just gone about their daily business.
That is one big assumption that isn’t grounded in anything.
There should’ve been a trial but their wasn’t. There’s a reason why victims and the families of the perpetrators aren’t allowed to be on a jury at their trial.
There absolutely should have been a trial. But Rumple took the law and justice into his own hands. He wasn’t getting justice, he was getting revenge.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"1) We do not know that Emma was going to shoot him in the head. She had the gun for protection. Malevolent intent has not been established. In fact they take Panry out to the town line to TALK, because Emma is very suspcious that something is going on with Henry.
2) No one was planning on killing Pan. In fact we don’t know what the overall plan was. They might have just been planning to swap bodies and then put the real Pan in the box.
I recall a “what are you waiting for? shoot him!” being said and Emma telling Rumple to stay over the magic side of the line just in case. In fact Emma only hesitated because there wasn’t something quite right about the “Pan” in front of her.
That is one big assumption that isn’t grounded in anything.
It’s grounded in the fact that in the season 2 finale, the Charmings gathered all their friends in the diner, which didn’t include RumBelle or the rest of Storybrooke and were planning to portal to safety whilst Storybrooke was destroyed and everybody else died.
There absolutely should have been a trial. But Rumple took the law and justice into his own hands. He wasn’t getting justice, he was getting revenge.
But then wasn’t Regina taking the law into her own hands by deciding to let Zelena go free?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI recall a “what are you waiting for? shoot him!” being said and Emma telling Rumple to stay over the magic side of the line just in case. In fact Emma only hesitated because there wasn’t something quite right about the “Pan” in front of her.
Emma didn’t say that, though. You were implying that Emma took Pan out there for the sole purpose of killing him. She was already suspicious that something was wrong, hence taking the box out to the town line in the first place. She knew something was off with Henry.
It’s grounded in the fact that in the season 2 finale, the Charmings gathered all their friends in the diner, which didn’t include RumBelle or the rest of Storybrooke and were planning to portal to safety whilst Storybrooke was destroyed and everybody else died.
Rumbelle were a little..uh..busy and Rumple had already declared that he wouldn’t be helping to save the town.
Also, I might be a very harsh critic but I recognize that you can’t fit the entire town into Granny’s diner. They used all the cast members that have had speaking roles in the past–the dwarves, Granny, Archie, BF. What happens after Emma and the gang go to the mines…maybe the dwarves went out and spread the word. Leroy is good at that.
But then wasn’t Regina taking the law into her own hands by deciding to let Zelena go free?
She didn’t let her go free. She put her in jail. She told Zelena that she was getting a second chance, but she did not release her to the general public.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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