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Let’s just go with what the show tells us and that’s Emma hero, Rumple villain even if they don’t act like that.
But honestly I really liked that scene bc it showed four parents standing and protecting their sons and/or themselves. And all were valid in their behavior. Emma doesn’t want to die and wants Hook back, Rumple is protecting his son, Belle is protecting his son, Snow is protecting her daughter. Adulting 101. It didn’t feel like they were trying to classify them as heroes and villains at all to me. It felt like the show wanted us to understand where they all were coming from.
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Guys, just a friendly reminder to please not use any profanity. I had to star out some stuff. Find a different way to say it please. Carry on!
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"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"How about coming into the shop and saying “Hey Gold and Belle why is your son trying to kill me? Who is the black fairy, and how can we help the 100’s of abused kids?” That would be a good conversation starter instead of hey I am going to kill your son and my mom is going to help. I am not saying that Emma should wait for Gideon to kill her my problem is that right after she punched Gideon he told her what was going on and that he needed her help she then went to Gold and threatened his life. This is NOT an appropriate way to handle the situation right after Gideon told her what was going on.
Again though, she had this conversation with Gold earlier in the episode when Gold told her about the Black Fairy and all the darkness the surrounds her and how she’s his mother etc. She did this before agreeing to trust Gideon and take down the Black Fairy together. Do you forget that this already happened?
This is Emma’s character. Impulsive, emotional, driven, flawed…. This is who she has been for the whole series.
Exactly. Saying that she is not acting like a hero is ridiculous to me. This is how she has always been. It’s certainly not out of character.
Then she was hypocritical. Who hasn’t been on this show? I don’t see why that makes her a terrible person. If she was going in to sit down and have tea and crumpets with Belle and Rumple to discuss the issue then people would be questioning if she was Jafar in disguise. This is Emma’s character. Impulsive, emotional, driven, flawed…. This is who she has been for the whole series.
Really, because I remember an Emma who stood up for the truth and backed others even when it was detrimental to herself. I remember an Emma who would never have blackmailed others and would have tried to help Gideon after his explanation instead of threatening to kill him. This was the Emma of season 1-3. The fact is the show has Emma painted as not only the hero but the savior. As the savior and hero I do expect more out of her. She is allowed to be upset and “bad ***” but she is not allowed to hurt innocent people (Belle) for her own gain. She is not allowed to threaten the life of a guy who just explained that he needs her help to defeat a really evil person who is abusing kids.
Matt wrote: None of the characters in that scene were painted in a bad light IMO. I could get on board with Belle seeing the best in her son, in Rumple wanting to protect him, in Emma wanting to protect herself and in Snow wanting to protect her daughter. They are four adults. They are more than just Heroes and Villains, and all the connotations that come with those labels.
I actually don’t have a problem with the ending scene between Emma and Rumple, I think Emma has every right at that moment to be upset and I think Rumple has every right to tell Emma not to mess with his son, I have a problem with the scene in the shop where Emma and Snow where selfish, hypocritical jerks.
Again though, she had this conversation with Gold earlier in the episode when Gold told her about the Black Fairy and all the darkness the surrounds her and how she’s his mother etc. She did this before agreeing to trust Gideon and take down the Black Fairy together. Do you forget that this already happened?
Nope you are missing the point, the point is not what happened at the ending scene it is what happened in the scene in the shop where Emma and Snow threatened to kill Gideon and Emma was upset that Gideon was using Hook as a bargaining chip. This is the scene we are all upset about. The ending scene makes sense, this scene does not.
I actually don’t have a problem with the ending scene between Emma and Rumple, I think Emma has every right at that moment to be upset and I think Rumple has every right to tell Emma not to mess with his son, I have a problem with the scene in the shop where Emma and Snow where selfish, hypocritical jerks.
Wasn’t this the same scene? The sequence of events as I remember it were:
1. Emma punches Gideon and threatens him. And I do think it’s justified. He already tried to kill her.
2. After Gideon explains himself, Emma goes to see Gold in his shop where he explains The Black Fairy’s darkness, how she created the dark curse, how messed up Gideon is bc she raised him, how she is Rumple’s mother, and how they need to align themselves to take her down. Emma agrees and goes to help Gideon do this.
3. Gideon tricks Emma and leaves her for dead. Rumple saves her.
4. Emma and Snow storm into Gold’s office and everyone threatens everybody haha
Am I remembering this wrong?
Nope you are missing the point, the point is not what happened at the ending scene it is what happened in the scene in the shop where Emma and Snow threatened to kill Gideon and Emma was upset that Gideon was using Hook as a bargaining chip. This is the scene we are all upset about. The ending scene makes sense, this scene does not.
Perhaps I am remembering this wrong then. I did not think Emma threatened to kill Gideon the first time she went to Gold’s shop.
Perhaps I am remembering this wrong then. I did not think Emma threatened to kill Gideon the first time she went to Gold’s shop.
“Your son has a death wish and I am all to happy to oblige” Snow then states “and I would be happy to help, we have been looking for some mother/daughter bonding time” This is a DEATH threat right after Gideon explained why he needed Emma’s help. Emma goes on to state that Gideon is using Hook as a bargaining chip. This is the scene I am upset with and probably everyone else who is complaining about Emma. This scene was horrible and Emma and Snow were selfish, hypocritical jerks. Emma then finds Gideon and tells him he has the look of hope and that she is willing to help him after he gives her Hook back. (OK I will give her this one although really let’s let the innocent children suffer so that you can get your pirate back sooner?) then they go to the house and Gideon leaves her for dead. She then threatens his life again, which is understandable and Rumple threatens Emma which is also understandable.
“Your son has a death wish and I am all to happy to oblige” Snow then states “and I would be happy to help, we have been looking for some mother/daughter bonding time” This is a DEATH threat right after Gideon explained why he needed Emma’s help. Emma goes on to state that Gideon is using Hook as a bargaining chip. This is the scene I am upset with and probably everyone else who is complaining about Emma. This scene was horrible and Emma and Snow were selfish, hypocritical jerks. Emma then finds Gideon and tells him he has the look of hope and that she is willing to help him after he gives her Hook back. (OK I will give her this one although really let’s let the innocent children suffer so that you can get your pirate back sooner?) then they go to the house and Gideon leaves her for dead. She then threatens his life again, which is understandable and Rumple threatens Emma which is also understandable.
Ahh ok yes. So here’s the sticking point. I did not see that as a death threat. She did not say she would kill him in my eyes. I took it as your son has a death wish bc he’s trying to take out the darkest sorcerer of all time, and at this point, Gideon had already tried to kill Emma and he took Hook away. So like, I totally get why she said what she said. And I totally get why you and others would take that as a death threat. I just didn’t. But yes, he was using Hook as a bargaining chip which is not ok! Is it hypocritical of her? Yes. She did that with Gold. However Gold did something bad and promised Belle he wouldn’t. Emma did nothing to anyone for Gideon to blackmail her with. So Gideon created the leverage and sent Hook away. So like, while I do see the the comparison differently than you do, I get how one could seethe situations to be the same. It’s still hypocritical of her, but no one felt bad for Gold. He did a bad thing and Emma was using that against him. In this case, Emma didn’t do anything except get her bf taken away from her. Also, she literally needed Rumple to open the portal to the UW to save her bf! Gideon just wanted to leverage Emma so that he could kill her (or help stop a villain). I just don’t view the manipulations the same.
I did not see that as a death threat
How is that not a death threat? She was not referring to the black fairy she was referring to herself killing him and snow helping?
It’s still hypocritical of her, but no one felt bad for Gold. He did a bad thing and Emma was using that against him.
Your right, I felt bad for Belle who was being used by Emma
Also, she literally needed Rumple to open the portal to the UW to save her bf! Gideon just wanted to leverage Emma so that he could kill her (or help stop a villain). I just don’t view the manipulations the same.
Your right I view the manipulation as much worse on Emma’s part. Emma was manipulating gold for her own selfish needs, Gideon was manipulating Emma to save 100’s of children and defeat an evil person
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