December 16, 2017 at 4:52 am #345121RumplesGirlKeymaster
Wish Realm Hook giving up his relationship with Alice in HH so Lucy and Jacinda could have theirs.
It was a sweet moment but it feels so completely unearned, IMO. We saw no development of any sort of relationship between WR!Hook and any of the others. He was just sorta there working beside them for reasons in the previous flashbacks and jumping 8 yrs into the future robs us of all that development that would have made that moment more than just sweet.
-blood magic suddenly being able to be broken by family teamwork.
It’s like everything that used to be super important and almost impossible to break is now easily done away with by the most mundane of objects. Between your example and Zelena’s curse being broken by drinking a small amount of *something* I was rolling my eyes a lot.[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"December 16, 2017 at 10:11 am #345153
This episode was really random, in my opinion. Just out of nowhere Henry and Ella have a child. We haven’t even seen them fall in love yet. Then they just skip eight years later. Why did they keep that statue in their castle? Why did they not remember the prophecy?
Regina’s throw away line about the timeline is just the writers being jerks. They are terrible about details and terrible about world building and they just don’t care. That stuff matters. What makes a story good is the details.
Rumpel being imp like was really random. I, also, thought that maybe he was a second Rumpel for a moment.
They didn’t explain why Drizella was suddenly attacking Ella and Henry. They didn’t explain why Tremaine was helping them stop her. They didn’t explain where Zelena and Robyn were.
Lucy being unconscious seems to have to do with Anastasia being awake and Lucy’s belief being gone, so why they are connecting that to the curse and Henry’s poisoning does not make a lot of sense. They should be able to save Lucy without breaking the curse.
I almost feel like this should have been the second episode of the season and then they should have filled in some details over the half of a season. I am not really convinced that this half had a plot.December 16, 2017 at 10:15 am #345154
I agree that it would have been better if the kiss between Henry and Lucy actually worked, though their reasoning is consistent.
I still don’t think Anastasia is the guardian. I think that Gothel just wants to use her, so she said that so that Rumpel would wake her. Gothel has some sort of plan that we know nothing about.December 16, 2017 at 10:19 am #345155
Zelena saying that saving people is what heroes do even over their family was ridiculous. There doesn’t need to be a choice there. Call the guy, say you have a family emergency, if he loves her and she loves him, then they can wait a bit. They could also read him in on what is going on.
The writers idea of self sacrifice for the people, the way they talk about it just doesn’t make sense. A character can be a hero and do the right thing and still take care of their family and still have real romantic love and a happy life.December 16, 2017 at 10:40 am #345156PheeParticipant
I’d read people’s comments on the ep before watching it, so I knew to expect some hot mess, but even though I went in prepared, I’m sitting here just…overwhelmed…not in a good way.
Hated the timeline jump. This story could’ve played out throughout this half of the season much better than how it was presented.
Yup! Problem is they wanted to show the Curse being cast as the big finale for this first part of the season before the hiatus. And because they’d concocted such a ridiculous setup for how this Curse was cast, they just had too much stuff to cram in at the last moment. I can only imagine that their intention was to leave people thinking, “OMG how did all this happen, I’m so excited to fill in the blanks, I can’t wait for hiatus to be over.” But it backfired big time and everyone’s just confused instead, because they did a big time jump and threw a whole bunch of scenarios at us that are just dumbfounding, rather than intriguing. A good finale should leave your audience with questions, but not of the, “Well this just makes no sense,” variety.
The Oldest part of the Enchanted Forrest is the original enchanted forest? That makes no sense. I thought this was a completely different realm and that is why there is a new cinderella, and a new rapunzel, and new whoever else. What happened to that?
OK so I’d have to go back to check, but the original tree that made Emma’s wardrobe, did that come from “the oldest part of the EF”? If so, then I think what they were attempting to imply is that New!EF also has “the oldest part of the New!EF” and that’s where the magic trees are, because no matter the realm, that’s just the part of the forest where the magic trees are. And I’m also gonna assume that this axe belonged to New!EF Gepetto, rather than the one we know? Basically, I think Henry was like, “This is what the setup was in the original story, so it’ll all work out the same if I just sub in the New!EF versions of all the things.” Perhaps?
The scene between Hook and Alice was first of all mumbled so I could not understand it even after watching it four times. So I had no idea what in the world they were talking about, but I guess that it was that she should be reunited with Robyn her love? Okay thanks for that with absolutely no background.
It was a tad confusing, but here’s what I got out of that exchange…
Hook: Are you sure this is still where you wanna be?
Alice: Knowing what he’d give up for me, I owe it to him to stay by his side. And who knows, maybe our Cursed memories will be better.
Maybe this means that Rumple gave up his humanity and became the imp again because reasons, to help Alice with something, and that’s why he’s now seemingly her BFF, rather than Hook? Maybe Rumple stepped in to do something to help her in a situation where Hook wouldn’t or couldn’t, and that’s why they seem estranged now? I mean, I know they were cursed to not be able to touch each other or whatever, but it seems like there’s more than that going on that’s keeping them apart now. (Perhaps he later gives up the chance for them to remember each other because he figures their relationship is such a mess that even Curse memories can’t fix it, so maybe he feels like he’s not giving up that much, especially when compared to what Ella and Lucy would have to give up?)
The next line from Hook, I’m not entirely sure if this is accurate because I don’t have captions on my version of the ep, but I think he says, “Fewer trees and walls in our way.” Maybe? Which…I guess will make sense whenever we get their backstory filled in and see what exactly happened? Walls could refer to the tower? Trees could refer to Gothel? Maybe? My head hurts.
Alice: Yes. But Papa if it happens I will lose her.
Hook: Don’t say that love, don’t. True love can win out over so much more.
Alice: I hope so. Please give this to her for me. I don’t have one for you, but, you already know how I feel.
Hook: I’ll deliver it, but I’m gonna do my best to make sure that nothing parts any of us.
Alice’s first line, I think is, “Yeah maybe the curse will bring us closer, but it’ll make me lose Robyn,” so Alice is basically resigned to having at least one of the main relationships in her life being wrecked, no matter which realm they’re in.
Hook’s last line, is him saying that he has #hope that the Curse can be stopped, Alice can stay in New!EF with Robyn, and he can find some way to resolve whatever drove him and Alice apart.
That whole scene made me just tilt my head and be “WUT?” after first watch, but seeing a few people confused, so going back to re-watch a few times, I think maybe it makes sense now. But it shouldn’t bloody well take 4 times watching a scene for it to make sense!!!
The kingdom seemed to be at peace for 8 years and Tiana was a princess again, so what the hell happened?
Tiana’s actually the Queen now, (Lucy addresses her as such). So go figure!December 16, 2017 at 10:49 am #345157
There were a lot of magical deus ex machinas going on here. The white elephant. The blood magic turns people to stone curse, for EIGHT years. The wrist vines that steal magic. Geppetto’s ax and the new wardrobe tree. The new curse needs blood from someone who crushed the heart of the thing they loved most. Henry’s poison that can only be stopped by going to a non magical realm. It was just too much nonsense going on there.December 16, 2017 at 11:04 am #345159
There is no good explanation for why Emma, Snow, and Charming are not helping with Henry’s problems. It just doesn’t make sense and the show doesn’t work because of it. If Zelena and Robyn can be there, then so can Emma. Emma being pregnant and having another child is not remotely a good reason to not be part of her son’s life.
Emma is my favorite character, but this is why when it comes down to it the only explanation for her not being there is that she is dead. They should have killed her off.December 16, 2017 at 11:12 am #345161
I like the idea of Alice and Robyn as a couple, but they are not major characters on this show. Alice has been barely developed at all. She is related, but just to fake Hook who is no one and Gothel who is like the dead man walking. Robyn is related to Zelena and Regina, but she just popped up out of nowhere and doesn’t have a personality yet. They are going to have to do a lot more to make that a real relationship because i don’t care about those characters yet. I am not convinced they can do it, especially after how badly they have developed Henry and Ella’s relationship.December 16, 2017 at 1:18 pm #345165StahlopParticipant
This episode was really random, in my opinion. Just out of nowhere Henry and Ella have a child. We haven’t even seen them fall in love yet. Then they just skip eight years later. Why did they keep that statue in their castle? Why did they not remember the prophecy? Regina’s throw away line about the timeline is just the writers being jerks. They are terrible about details and terrible about world building and they just don’t care. That stuff matters. What makes a story good is the details. Rumpel being imp like was really random. I, also, thought that maybe he was a second Rumpel for a moment. They didn’t explain why Drizella was suddenly attacking Ella and Henry. They didn’t explain why Tremaine was helping them stop her. They didn’t explain where Zelena and Robyn were. Lucy being unconscious seems to have to do with Anastasia being awake and Lucy’s belief being gone, so why they are connecting that to the curse and Henry’s poisoning does not make a lot of sense. They should be able to save Lucy without breaking the curse. I almost feel like this should have been the second episode of the season and then they should have filled in some details over the half of a season. I am not really convinced that this half had a plot.
I had a similar thought about when this episode should have aired. If this flashback, along with A Pirate’s Life and Eloise Gardner’s flashback had all been in the first episode, it would have been much more interesting. Of course, then we would’ve known Ivy and Eloise were evil from the start, but I think it still would’ve worked.December 16, 2017 at 2:29 pm #345172
Yeah, i think there were things in this that maybe shouldn’t have been in the like second episode, but showing baby Lucy, showing Henry and Ella married, Rumpel acting weird, the introduction of Robyn, some of the curse stuff could have been introduced. I think that some of this felt more like setup to an arc, by opening all these questions, instead of a conclusion to an ark.
I think they could have had a scene with Gothel about the curse early on and still kept that Drizella was involved out of it. The problem being that the writers have no plan. They are literally writing as they go. They don’t know how the arc is going to end when they start writing the beginning, either that or the only thing they know is the beginning and the end and that is why the middle doesn’t fit.
I just know that before this season started the most important thing, in my opinion, was making sure they replaced the female protagonist and started new mysteries and i feel like a lot of this could have helped it. Instead, they spent the early part of the season trying to finish off last season.
I think the only mystery that was interesting this season was that Drizella was evil. A lot of people were assuming that Tremaine was Rapunzel and that Alice was Hook’s daughter pretty early on. The only mystery in that was that Gothel is Alice’s mother, but she has really just been like an egg donor. Gothel doesn’t seem to actually be involved with Alice in any way. I wonder if she even knows that Alice is her daughter.
It just really feels like there is information in here that they could have hinted at over the first five or so episodes that would have really helped it along. The first episodes were definitely the weakest of this arc. I can just see their failure to plan all over this episode.
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