- This topic has 54 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Who’s watching HBO’s “Westworld”? Let’s discuss!
General: I thought the second episode was actually better than the first. The series premiere was a nice wide look at the entire structure of the show, from the theme park and its rules, to the behind the scenes corporation and players who build the amusement park. Width is great because the entire episode could have really been cliche by pretending to be a “cowboy” show and then only panned back to let the audience in on the secret at the very end, but since this is a remake and the conceit is already heavily known, the show did the smart thing and looked at the whole picture right off the bat.
What that didn’t allow for, however, was much depth at any one character or story. You get a general idea of who some people are: Dolores is the girl next door and by episode end seems to be glitching; Teddy is the romantic lead who seems to have a heart of gold; there’s a literal man in black who spends his days raping, murdering, and trying to “beat” the game (maybe?); behind the scenes there’s the aging and maybe eccentric director, the programmer who is more interested in consciousness of machines than he ought to be, the temperamental writer/artist, and the cold and collected head of security. Lot of cliches, but again that’s fine for a season premiere where width is more important than depth.
Episode two did a lot to begin exploring the depth aspect, especially given that episode one ends by peeling away Dolores’s good girl shtick and exploring her realness. And that’s the point of the show, right? Episode two nicely lays out the entire thesis statement in a pretty blatantly textual way: “Are you real?” “Well if you can’t tell, does it matter?”
This isn’t exactly fresh in the sci-fi world and the show seemingly has little interest in being original. And that’s not a criticism! There is so much to explore right now with robotics and the idea of reality/realities and what exactly makes a person a person and how “real” human beings are using “non real” surrogates to play out their deepest darkest fantasies. The corollary to the above mentioned thesis statement is that “suffering is when you’re most real” which I think holds up nicely with the main character of Dolores. Her introduction sees her as almost bland–she’s the good girl next door who is prime for a big sweeping romance; a good daughter, a good lover, and a future good wife. Bland, flat and boring. Where she really comes alive (and major–MAJOR–props to the actress Evan Rachel Wood for her incredibly layered and nuanced portrayal during this scene) is in what comes across as psychological torture–the question and answer session of episode one. She admits to being terrified and still she’s asked extremely hard questions about the nature of her world, her life, and her own identity without her AI self having any real understanding, at least yet, of what those heavy words (identity, selfhood, life, reality) even mean! A bit rote, maybe, but interesting as hell.
Other passing thoughts
–William being asked to chose between a white hat and a black hat was a bit on the nose, no? Logan, his obnoxious friend, chose a black one, naturally.
–I am extremely interested in the past lives of the hosts and how remembering those events will affect them now
–Director Ford has some sort of secret agenda and purpose, right?
–In one of my all time favorite sci-fi shows, Stargate:SG1, an episode (Urgo) explores this very question of if and AI can be “real” or not. One of the established criterion is that the AI must fear the end of its life; it must have a sense of danger about its mortal existence. How else do we define life?
–Evan Rachel Wood, though, guys! The way she un-focuses her eyes to be starting beyond you, the audience, when being questioned as an AI was creepy and powerful all at once.
–What does the guy in black want exactly? (I’ve never seen the original, just for clarification, so I don’t know any spoilers)
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I really liked it. It reminded me Joss Whedon’s Dollhouse.
I hope the writing remains good and won’t devolve into being centered around action and shock like GoT’s writing.
"All your questions are pointless"
I do not have cable …. but I remember the original movies … I think YUL BRENNER was the AI character.
.
.I don’t want spoilers, so if people are going to post them, i hope they can let us know.
I think the director is the most interesting character right now. What has happened to him and what is he trying to figure out? I am assuming he has lost someone, maybe even created a robot like them. I think Dolores is fascinating as the oldest robot and her channeling the Shakespearean serial killer last episode for a moment was crazy interesting. Maybe she can somehow read everyone’s memories.
The evil guy trying to find the underbelly of the game is also interesting. Is he looking for a robot that was decommissioned? I think if he finds that room full of old robots that are standing there conscious for some unknown reason, that it will not go well for him. Also, how big is the place for him to be unaware of anything after going there for ten years? And why does he get whatever he wants? Possibly a second original owner like the director?
When Maev, the prostitute, started running through the behind the scenes area, all i could think was she is going to see this and have this information and if it could be share it would be useful. Also, it will be interesting when Dolores quits hiding and meets the director. There is something there.
All around, fascinating premise. I can’t wait for me.
I thought there was some really interesting questions being asked, not just about reality (is this real/is this not?) but also about what counts as being alive. Does endless repetition of an emotional/cognitive state disqualify you from being considered a living being? Are memories the primary thing that makes one human? (And if so, where does this leave people with cognitive impairments that affect long term memory)?
I think the two most intriguing characters right now are the Director and the Man in Black. They seem to be interesting inversions of each other. There are a lot of implicit/explicit pairings like this: the narrative centers around multiple “couples”/”contrasts”. Dr. Ford/Man in Black; Dolores/Maeve; Ashley/Elsie etc.
I know this is originally a Chrichton novel, but I wonder if the showrunners have read Stephen King’s Dark Tower series. There is some aesthetic overlap, plus the main antagonist is also called the Man in Black.
I know this is originally a Chrichton novel, but I wonder if the showrunners have read Stephen King’s Dark Tower series. There is some aesthetic overlap, plus the main antagonist is also called the Man in Black.
Oh absolutely. JJ Abrams is on the list of ex.producers. I don’t know how much influence/say he has or if they just wanted his name attached, but Abrams used a lot of King when creating and developing LOST, something Lindeloff and Cuse continued when they took over early in S1.
I had the same thought; the second he’s called the Man in Black, King springs to mind intentional or not
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Loved it. That’s all I say. And honestly, this last season was arguably GoT’ best season yet so idk you can fault the writers for moving the story along at a faster pace with more action. It won best drama for a reason.
I think the director is the most interesting character right now. What has happened to him and what is he trying to figure out?
I agree that Director Ford is one of the most intriguing on the show. It’s interesting that he presents himself both in the park and in his business as…god-like for wont of a better word. He mentions to Bernard something about the perils of playing god and in the park with the young Host he says that everything is magic, except to the magician while, quite literally, controlling the creation around him to suit his own ends. I don’t know if this makes him a “bad” guy (whatever that might mean on this show) or not. It’s interesting that the manifestation of his plans have a religious bent, the structure with the cross.
If I had to guess, I’d he’s become disillusioned with “real” people–why else would anyone go to that amount of effort and trouble to create such realistic AI’s if not because they find the real world and its people so repugnant? He’s the one who has given all the updates to make them more realistic, the little human touches like touching one’s lips, that seemed to cause the initial breakdown. Is he trying to set up his own human race and declare himself its god? I suspect there’s more nuance to it than that, but that’s all I got so far.
As for the Man in Black…
He claims to have been coming to the park for 30 years so is his carte blanche simply a reward for such loyal services or does he know something that gives him all access? Why is he so bent on finding the “maze”? Has he grown bored with what Westworld can offer? He seems to know every single story; how it play out, the characters and all the twists in the stories. Is this like the ultimate thrill for him, the untold story (lord help me) that he’s never been able to crack? Also, what do we make of his behavior in regards to what it means to be alive and be human? He is obviously real in the sense that he has blood and DNA from two biological humans but is “human” in the non literal abstract sense? He seems more of the monster in a nightmare; he’s the dark mirror that is held up to humanity–here be dragons sort of metaphor for what happens when humans are allowed to give into their darkest and deepest desires.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"If I had to guess, I’d he’s become disillusioned with “real” people–why else would anyone go to that amount of effort and trouble to create such realistic AI’s if not because they find the real world and its people so repugnant?
This is a crackpot theory, but I wonder if, from the Director’s perspective, the park is actually there for the androids rather than the humans in that it’s a petri dish of sorts for producing AI self-awareness. Like the Director is actually trying to achieve something like the Singularity, and in order to do that, he needs to create an artificial/accelerated evolutionary milieu. That line about “you are the most real when you’re suffering” from the Man in Black might be foreshadowing the idea that self-awareness is achieved as a result of suffering.
He seems more of the monster in a nightmare; he’s the dark mirror that is held up to humanity–here be dragons sort of metaphor for what happens when humans are allowed to give into their darkest and deepest desires.
I think what’s so utterly terrifying about him is this sense of self-absorbed ennui. His entire quest for the maze seems like this last ditch attempt to alleviate his boredom, and that sense of entitled nihilism is what’s so completely monstrous about him.
His entire quest for the maze seems like this last ditch attempt to alleviate his boredom, and that sense of entitled nihilism is what’s so completely monstrous about him.
That’s a good point. He seems to know all the stories, all the ways it could play out, all the chess pieces and the Maze–which he is told is not for him–is the way to revitalize his interest in the world he’s living in; in order to do that, he’s willing to commit all manner of crimes knowing full well that 1) he can have anything he wants and that 2) his actions have no consequences because he’s playing with toys he bought and paid for.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
The topic ‘Are You Real? HBO's "Westworld"’ is closed to new replies.