November 16, 2016 at 8:29 am #330454nevermoreParticipant
When the brothel girl beat up that other host who was assigned to be a human for awhile in the underground complex, i thought, if that can be done, a host thinks another host is a guest, then could the guns be reassigned in a similar way so they can kill the guests and then the host be reassigned to kill the guests just with a flip of a switch. Obviously we have now seen Bernard kill a human, but he is one of the older designed humans, right? So that is different.
Good questions. And wow, that episode.
Ok, as I understand it, there seems to be two “fail safe” mechanisms that prevent the hosts from hurting the guests. The first is that for some reason the guns they are issued don’t work on humans. In the pilot, doesn’t Teddy literally riddle the Man in Black with bullets, to absolutely zero effect? So there’s that. The second thing is that some hosts seem to be unable to actually kill a living thing. Hence they made a big deal out of both Dolores and Teddy just letting flies crawl all over their face, until Dolores, following her progressive changes, smacks one absentmindedly.
So, guns. I think all Westworld guns are “fakes” probably as much to protect guests from hosts as to protect guests from other guests, in case one of them decides to go on a killing rampage, or a stray bullet hits someone who “matters.” It’s like very realistic paintball.
At the same time, hosts could theoretically hurt guests with anything that isn’t a firearm, as we’ve seen with Bernard. I think the trick with Bernard is that, you’re right, he’s a very old host (that picture/design is clearly him), and that he is, essentially, completely loyal to Ford’s commands. But I do think it opens up new questions about who else might be a host wandering around topside. It’s very Blade Runner — there too the question was always whether the protagonist was also a “replicant,” unbeknownst to himself.[adrotate group="5"]November 16, 2016 at 11:34 am #330466hjbauParticipant
Yeah, and i think there is a difference in that Dolores is an older model and Teddy is not. Have we seen Teddy interact with William? I keep thinking i need to do a rewatch. I think you are probably right about the guns because of the stray bullet issue or if a guest just shot a human not realizing they were a human because it is almost impossible to tell the difference. If Teddy is not an older model, was his loop somehow written as like a version of William’s journey? That might explain some of the Man in Black’s dislike, assuming that the Man in Black is William, which we are still not certain of. I do think the fact that we haven’t found out William’s last name has to be significant.
I have also been thinking for awhile that some of the other members, guests and employees, could be hosts, they mostly all could be for all we know. It is that insane. The moment Bernard said what door, i was just like oh my goodness, wow. Then i knew Theresa was dead. I was waiting for the first human death, because it had to happen.
The first time i saw the little boy with Ford, i thought is that his avatar? They were just acting so similarly and their clothing, also the way he just shows up observing things.November 16, 2016 at 4:42 pm #330474thedarkonedearieParticipant
Poor Theresa…I didn’t really like her anyway. Man Anthony Hopkins just ate up that scene didn’t he…November 16, 2016 at 7:06 pm #330525
I’m not quite sure where to start with this one, honestly. So…bullet point style
–Bernard being a Host totally shocked me. I got actual shivers the second he said “what door?” He always seemed the most human (which is probably the point). He had a believable backstory, he’s had interactions with his ex wife (is she a Host or…?) and he has a lot of traits that I would consider indicating humanness: philosopher, lover, husband/father, curious.
–The Board is the real enemy here right? At least in the overall grand story. They want that code (intellectual property) for something–I can’t believe they are just paranoid that Ford will wipe everything at a moments notice.
–People made mention of Ford’s Empire–is there another park besides Westworld? Can you have an Empire with just one park?
–Dolores and William getting set up for a love triangle with Teddy? Also, do you think William is right: Westworld doesn’t reveal your basest self but your deepest?
–How BIG is this park?! And does there come a point when the stories are so…neglected (most of the narrative interest seems to be at the center with the town) that sentience becomes more pronounced?
–I wonder if Lee, the head writer, is a Host. He’s such a cliche that now he feels like a old model of a Host before Ford got really creative.
–What does Ford really want? Just to tell stories? If that’s true, then I got a bridge to sell you.
–What’s the endgame? Westworld got renewed for S2 so it’s time to start looking at the big picture. Self awareness for the Hosts is part of it, but I think there’s more. And I think it’s all about the Board."He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"November 16, 2016 at 7:09 pm #330526
Oh, also! Is Maeve so self aware now that she’s outside the control of the park people? She didn’t freeze when they came to get Clementine.
(Also, poor Clementine. That hurt to watch.) (Did Ford suspect the reveries would cause this retention of memories?) (How did Ford get the idea for Reveries?) (Did the Board ask him to look into it)
#SoManyQuestions"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"November 16, 2016 at 7:19 pm #330527
One more question, and it’s a bigger philosophical one. The show has been playing a lot with what it means to be real–your biology, your chemistry, your memories, a healthy fear of death and a need for self preservation.
But what if what makes you real…is simply believing that you are real? Can other people define your realness? Bernard was adamant “I’m not one of them” but when push comes to shove, he followed orders. But outside the influence of the Park Staff (say out in the wilds where Dolores is) can her realness become more “real” because there’s no one to tell her she’s not. William is clearly heading down the path of believing that Dolores is more real than his flesh and blood fiancee back home."He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"November 27, 2016 at 8:04 am #330695MattParticipant
Just binge-watched episodes 1-8 and WOW what a show. Can’t believe there are only two episodes left. Particular stand-outs for me are Anthony Hopkins (obvs) and Thandie Newton. I absolutely love the Maeve character and am so glad that they having been featuring her more and more.
Can’t wait for the next episode! So many questions…November 27, 2016 at 10:54 am #330698
I finally managed to sit down and watch episode 8. As usual lately, my notes are three pages long and I’m not even sure where to start.
Maeve is becoming more and more fascinating by the second. Was there always something special about her because, in the past, it took her a long time to settle down after the MiB killed her daughter. And now that she can control the story by simply speaking her plans what else can she do? And where does this rank her in the hierarchy of life? So far only Ford seems to be able to walk into a landscape and change it with a flick of his wrist of a quick whisper! Like…did Maeve just become a god…?
Speaking of Ford, I like his take on consciousness. There is nothing separating Hosts from Humans because consciousness does not exist, you can’t create it in a lab. I’m not sure I agree (but I’m also not sure I disagree!) because to one extent he might be right. There is no point at which “real” occurs for us. We simply grow up and develop and evolve because of our interactions with the world and its inhabitants. But at the same time, I am more real, and alive than say the laptop on which I am writing this post (though, maybe my Cortana would disagree. Note to self–disable Cortana!)
I think we got a lot of evidence that the MiB is really William but I also think it’s all a red herring. The show wants us to believe that they are going that route (that William left the park after his adventures with Dolores, went home and married his fiancee, had a family, become a wealthy and powerful individual almost out of spite to Logan and what he said a few episodes back but was forever tainted by his experience in the Park.) The Maze though…so it’s literal? A very literal maze in which, from what I can gather, the Hosts and Humans are equals and there are consequences to the actions of both parties that aren’t a part of the Westworld Park. Why did the Maze reveal itself after Maeve was “alive. Very much alive” in the MiB’s flashback? Does it reveal itself to Hosts at the moment “real” kicks in (and again, is that even a thing that really happens?)
Can’t believe we only have two episodes to go!"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"December 2, 2016 at 10:35 am #331136Bar FarerParticipant
Thandie Newton should win an Emmy.
"All your questions are pointless"December 2, 2016 at 11:26 am #331137
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