April 12, 2015 at 11:14 pm #301290Crystal PrincessParticipant
Like seriously, the only other PoC on the show we’ve seen with any real regularity outside of Regina and Ursula(terminally tortured, and a villain until she was wandered off as the first of the QoD to make her exit, in a weird modern twist of “The black guy dies first”) turns out to be really a white woman in disguise.
I couldn’t enjoy anything on this episode because it was just so symbolic of OUAT’s treatment of race. The fact that nobody even caught this is what really bothers me. Unfortunately many people have a very simplistic view of racism, that only considers outright negative stereotypical depictions “Racist” and not for example an extreme lack of PoC characters. We should expect better than that from the staff, though.
I’m honestly too upset to continue watching, and it ruined Zelena’s return and anything that would have been otherwise enjoyable about this season.
It’s just a disaster. This whole show is an exercise on how not to handle race on TV.
(Disclaimer: Any “but they’re european fairy tales” arguments will be ignored on sight, and rest assured I probably know more about fairy tales/folklore than you).[adrotate group="5"]
I don't cause commotions, I am one.April 12, 2015 at 11:27 pm #301292WickedRegalParticipant
Facts, Facts, & Facts!
I completely agree that Once has a serious issue with keeping a PoC on the show….I was enjoying Ursula!!! Why’d She Have To Leave So SOON!!! We only had her for five episodes….seriously!!!!
And Marian…true enough….I did not like Marian until this episode where I saw the REAL Marian in the past flashback. I think killing her was a bit extreme…I don’t know, maybe Zelena could have turned her into the Swan Princess instead, and after the curse was broken, Marian went on to fall in love with a more humble and much nicer Sherriff of Nottingham, that way Roland would still have his mother in his life.
But Ursula…come back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#SlightlyPeevedOffUrsulaNotOnceSaid”Poor Unfortunate Soul”
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn BalorApril 12, 2015 at 11:29 pm #301293
Being rude to forum posters before they’ve had any chance to respond is going to get you nowhere on this site. Ever.
Please leave the attitude that you know more about anything at the door. It’s unwarranted and leads to negative feelings on this board and does little to nothing to help the conversation on this site which should always be polite even when heated.
You raise many good points–several of which have been raised by others on this site before– but the nature of your OP is bothersome if you want to have a productive conversation. As such, I will be monitoring and it turns ugly because people cannot be polite even in debate, it will be shut down
[/mod]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"April 12, 2015 at 11:38 pm #301296
I happen to agree with the OP on pretty much everything.
If this were the first time this had happened on OUAT, I’d call them on it but hope that they could do better. But it’s not. It’s a reoccurring habit. Like, every season this happens–some PoC either morphs into a white person, is killed, or is a villain and summarily dismissed.
This show has a serious race issue. A very serious one."He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"April 12, 2015 at 11:44 pm #301297TheWatcherParticipant
People who want to say oh well they are European fairytales can go lay an egg. Ouat has taken fairytale characters (Lancelot, Rapunzel, Ursula) and given their roles to POC’s but it seems such a STRUGGLE for them to actually make any of the roles significant good guys who actually stick around. Is that too hard or too much to ask for?
Let’s make a list (and feel free to add to it in case I missed anyone):
Tamara- Dead, evil, rather insignificant to the plot.
Billy/Gus-Gus – Dead, extremely insignificant to the plot (none of my friends even remember him)
Lancelot – Dead, one episode wonder. The little significance he had to the plot turned out to be a white woman in disguise.
Rapunzel – Insignificant to the plot, one episode wonder.
Marian – Dead. And what little significance she had to the plot turned out to not actually be her at all but another white woman in disguise.
Sidney – Evil, not dead, but gone for multiple seasons and when he returns, he betrays our main characters and then leaves again.
Dragon – Dead, insignicant to the plot.
Ursula- The one character who had the most POTENTIAL is the first Queen of darkness out the door. The one I was most excited for of all and she got virtually nothing.
Hmmm do we see any patterns here?
I just can’t even.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICApril 13, 2015 at 1:03 am #301300GaultheriaParticipant
Let’s make a list (and feel free to add to it in case I missed anyone):
I hear someone saying “Mistress mine, my will is thine”.
Edited to add: Although Jafar is a villain, he’s a popular character because of his charisma and because we sympathize with his motives (though not his means). With Will’s still-untold story, and now the Aladdin poster, I think we’d all be surprised if Jafar isn’t the antagonist next season.
Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasherApril 13, 2015 at 9:38 am #301338Crystal PrincessParticipant
my issue with that is, Aladdin and Jasmine come from a fictional country that’s clearly a FTL reflection of the middle east/muslim countries. Their real life equivalents would clearly be Muslim. There are almost no Muslim/Middle Eastern character on TV in positive roles, possibly due to the fact that the US(And much of the non muslim world) is violently Islamophobic.
So given how bad OUAT is on race I’m reeeeally not sure I put much stock in them sticking their foot into Middle Eastern characters. With Agribah in Wonderland it was clearly FTL but when they start running with real life equivs. we’re going to run into issues.
I feel like Jafar’s kind of been done too. I’d like to see him come back into the main show but not as the big bad.
I don't cause commotions, I am one.April 13, 2015 at 10:11 am #301340
Adding to Watcher’s list:
One of the witches of Oz was Latina (I believe—it was hard to tell because she was never really shown obviously except in passing) but did absolutely nothing beside sit and smile and nod along to Glinda."He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"April 13, 2015 at 10:28 am #301345obisgirlParticipant
I wouldn’t necessarily call it racist.
The way I’ve referred to the big shocker since we first figured out what it is, “It’s a plot device to fix the failed plot device.” The failed plot device was re-introducing Marian at the end of 3B. But then adding Marian back into the mix made Robin look like a jerk, but it made Regina look like a saint. And of course, there was a negative backlash from fans. A lot of Outlaw Queen fans were turned off by that love triangle. Adam and Eddy, being the trolls that they are, needed a quick fix — enter Zelena.
Zelena was the answer to fixing the failed plot device, Marian in this case.
I also think, Adam and Eddy don’t write to fill quotas. They write a story.April 13, 2015 at 10:40 am #301350SlurpeezParticipant
Let’s not forget to add Mulan to the list. Where is she exactly? She joined Robin Hood and his gang of merry men (er, people) at the end of 3×3 after she found out Aurora was expecting a baby. Now Robin Hood’s gang are camping in the woods of SB. Are we to believe Mulan is there too? She seems to have dropped off of the map.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
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