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I wouldn’t necessarily call it racist.
Unintentional racism is still racism. Do I think A and E are setting out to be racist? No. Certainly not. But the way they write the PoC on this show does come across as being unintentionally racist, with no one it the writing room realizing it. It’s an issue when every single PoC on the show is being treated the way they are being treated.
I also think, Adam and Eddy don’t write to fill quotas. They write a story.
And the story they keep writing is that PoC are easily disposed of or secretly white people. It’s…an issue.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Different people are going to see what they want to see. But Marian was a failed plot device and Adam and Eddy needed a quick fix for that, so they made Zelena somehow alive again. Does it make sense? No. But they needed a quick fix.
Let’s not forget to add Mulan to the list. Where is she exactly? She joined Robin Hood and his gang of merry men (er, people) at the end of 3×3 after she found out Aurora was expecting a baby. Now Robin Hood’s gang are camping in the woods of SB. Are we to believe Mulan is there too? She seems to have dropped off of the map.
Well Adam and Eddy have been vocal in interviews about wanting to do more with Mulan, but in this case it’s an issue of scheduling conflicts. Jamie Chung wasn’t available for the rest of Season 3, because she was filming a show for NBC called Believe last Season. Believe tanked and got canceled, but even after that Jamie’s has been higher in demand and getting more projects. Heck, she even voiced a character in Disney’s Big Hero 6, an Oscar winning animated film too. So I’m chalking up the lack of Mulan due to unavailability.
Different people are going to see what they want to see. But Marian was a failed plot device and Adam and Eddy needed a quick fix for that, so they made Zelena somehow alive again. Does it make sense? No. But they needed a quick fix.
Zelena being alive does not necessitate Marian dying in the way past, or as someone else put it, before the show actually had to deal with her in any meaningful way. She spent most of 4A passed out, and then in her big return: she’s been dead all along and is really a white woman. And on top of this, we actually saw a really strong woman in Marian in the EF flashbacks. It’s insult to injury.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"This is the last thing I’m going to say:
I don’t think Adam and Eddy are racist themselves. I don’t know them personally but from what I’ve seen of them over the past 3-4 years, heading this show, they don’t come off as racist. If you follow politics, there are more racist people out there who are flat out racists and make no apologies for being that way. Those people are the real racists.
That’s just my point of view and again, everyone is going to interpret what happens on this show differently.
But I think that the writers, they’re writing a story. It doesn’t always make sense but they’re not purposely killing off PoC.
I really do think it was a quick and easy fix to a problem that they created in 3B finale. To help salvage Outlaw Queen and “fix” Robin’s bad image that left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth in 4A. How many people were upset that about Marian/Robin/Regina love triangle? Adam and Eddy knew they messed up with adding Marian back in the story, it didn’t have the desired effect that they were hoping for from the fans and needed a way to fix the whole thing.
Making Zelena impersonate the real Marian was an easy way to fix that problem.
At the end of the day, Marian from the moment we were introduced to her in Lacey has always been a plot device. Even Christie Laing understands that about the character.
Does it make what happened last night right? No.
But I really don’t think it was meant to be racist in any way.
Was Cyrus even a POC? He came from Agrabah as well correct? Shouldn’t he be the same race as his mother, brothers, and Jafar? They were all POC’s but he seemed white, unless I am mistaken? That could have been a huge opportunity for them.
One of the witches of Oz was Latina (I believe—it was hard to tell because she was never really shown obviously except in passing) but did absolutely nothing beside sit and smile and nod along to Glinda.
The other was black and did nothing more than the same.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICWas Cyrus even a POC? He came from Agrabah as well correct? Shouldn’t he be the same race as his mother, brothers, and Jafar? They were all POC’s but he seemed white, unless I am mistaken? That could have been a huge opportunity for them.
Actually, I was pleased to discover that Peter Gadiot, the actor who played Cyrus in WL, is part-Latino. (He was born in London, but is part Mexican, part Dutch). So while I’m glad to see a Latino had a lead role in a OUAT spin-off, it still raises the question of why a part-Mexican, part-European was (mis)cast in a role that should have gone to someone of Middle Eastern heritage (since Agrabah is of Arab origin).
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I wouldn’t necessarily call it racist. The way I’ve referred to the big shocker since we first figured out what it is, “It’s a plot device to fix the failed plot device.” The failed plot device was re-introducing Marian at the end of 3B. But then adding Marian back into the mix made Robin look like a jerk, but it made Regina look like a saint. And of course, there was a negative backlash from fans. A lot of Outlaw Queen fans were turned off by that love triangle. Adam and Eddy, being the trolls that they are, needed a quick fix — enter Zelena. Zelena was the answer to fixing the failed plot device, Marian in this case. I also think, Adam and Eddy don’t write to fill quotas. They write a story.
Sorry, but the “to fill quotas” argument is just incorrect. If you’re writing responsibly there should be no issues with representation. You’re acting like there’s no racism involved in the undercasting of PoC in Fantasy & Sci-Fi(or the presence of Queer characters for that matter) but it IS a racist practice in of itself. Like I said, a lot of people simply don’t understand how racism works and manifests itself.
Why is it that when people write “to tell a story” that story so often revolves around conventionally attractive cishet white people?
If you’re under-representing and mistreating PoC on the show, it’s racism. It might be unconscious racism, but you’re still making decisions that have racist undertones to them so I don’t even buy the intent argument(and anyway, intent is not magic). Just look at all of the PoC that ere introduced as one note characters, killed, or went evil or disappeared. Oh wait, that’s ALL the PoC on the show. Regina is the only PoC we see regularly now and she’s constantly tortured by people.
What kind of message does that sent to non-white people watching? I know several WoC who have stopped watching due to how abhorrently racist the show can be, and you think it’s okay to just turn around and say “Well actually I don’t think it’s technically really racist?” Do you think PoC are just being silly and the white writers and showrunners know best?
Because there are words for that sort of mindest(one starts with W and the other with S) and they’re not nice. But people care vastly more about being accused of racism or turning a blind eye to discrimination or bigotry than they do to actual racism in the first place. And that’s a problem. The most you’re going to get is to be told that your favourite show is racist. Whereas PoC have to deal with feeling alienated in their fandoms constantly, not being represented in their favourite shows, and running the risk of being displayed as a stereotype, written out, fridged, or otherwise mistreated to forward the plot for the white leads.
And it’s the same thing with the Queer fanbase, so you can see why SQ et. all are the way they are if you actually stop to reflect for a minute. We’re treated terribly and we constantly have to put up with people making excuses as to why it’s okay.
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It’s definitely a big issue. When they choose white actors to play relatives of white actors’ characters (or younger dopplers), that…makes sense. And given the talents of ALL the actors it’s difficult to complain about most of the casting choices they’ve made.
But when they constantly squander opportunities to include PoCs in a relevant way, it is a really, really big issue. If they’d made Mulan instead of Will a regular, the fandom would have cheered. They could have given Cruella whatever she wants before Ursula. A thousand little choices that they’ve made that could add up to a more diverse and interesting cast.
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There are almost no Muslim/Middle Eastern character on TV in positive roles, possibly due to the fact that the US(And much of the non muslim world) is violently Islamophobic.
I disagree. I don’t think the “non muslim” world is violently islamophobic. Yes you will get certain individuals who group the entire muslim community as part of Isis but those views are not shared by everyone. To group all “Non muslims” into the “violently islamophobic” box is unfair.
In Britain there are muslim characters on TV in positive roles. There is the Masood family in Eastenders and there is the Siddiqui family on Gogglebox.
To group a whole set of people based on the actions and behaviour of a few individuals is wrong.
I wouldn’t necessarily call it racist.
The way I’ve referred to the big shocker since we first figured out what it is, “It’s a plot device to fix the failed plot device.” The failed plot device was re-introducing Marian at the end of 3B. But then adding Marian back into the mix made Robin look like a jerk, but it made Regina look like a saint. And of course, there was a negative backlash from fans. A lot of Outlaw Queen fans were turned off by that love triangle. Adam and Eddy, being the trolls that they are, needed a quick fix — enter Zelena.
Zelena was the answer to fixing the failed plot device, Marian in this case.
I also think, Adam and Eddy don’t write to fill quotas. They write a story.
I agree. I don’t think the writers are being racist. They’re not going out of their way to belittle or demonise POC. It is unfortunate that POC character do seem to drop off the radar easily but there are also white characters that have suffered the same treatment, it’s not just the POC characters this is happening to. It is perhaps more noticeable with the POC characters, but again, it’s not just them it is happening to. The lack of POC on the show is rather unfortunate, but at worse I think it is a lack of foresight on the writers’ part rather than an actual bias. The writers bring in all these characters then don’t know what to do with them once they get past a certain point so they just forget about them and move on to the next shiny set of characters that catches their eye.
I agree with your point about trying to fix the Marian plot device. The writers hoped that people would be rooting for OQ over Robin/Marian. However they made the mistake of having Regina be the reason Marian is dead (and last episode didn’t really fix that, Regina was still the one that tried to kill Marian in the past). People started rooting for Marian over Regina and there was a backlash which is not what the writers wanted so they decided to make Marian not-Marian to try and push OQ into a more favourable light. (All it has done is push Regina into a less favourable light IMO).
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