- This topic has 67 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
It’s definitely a big issue. When they choose white actors to play relatives of white actors’ characters (or younger dopplers), that…makes sense. And given the talents of ALL the actors it’s difficult to complain about most of the casting choices they’ve made. But when they constantly squander opportunities to include PoCs in a relevant way, it is a really, really big issue. If they’d made Mulan instead of Will a regular, the fandom would have cheered. They could have given Cruella whatever she wants before Ursula. A thousand little choices that they’ve made that could add up to a more diverse and interesting cast.
Also: Did the Author need to be a white guy? Did Lily need to be played by a white woman so she could be Mal’s daughter(why not make the father Latino? unless they’re going with the “True love potion” thing which they really shouldn’t) Did they have to cast white actors for Anna/Elsa when it would have been a great chance to cast inuit or saami actors(Saami is unlikely, but there definitely would have been inuit actors available)? Even for Kristoff, who wears a Saami inspired outfit? Did the Sorcerer’s Apprentice have to be a white guy? Did Walsh? Did Hook? Did anyone?
This is why I hate the “token” or “writing to a quota” argument because people keep casting white actors when they really don’t have to. There is a concious or sub-concious effort to either look for or favour white actors in casting. There’s also been a distinct lack of non european folk tales, not that there is any reason why you can’t have fantasy europe filled with PoC(Real medieval europe, in fact, had a lot more PoC than you’d think due to active trade routes, the Moors, the Romani, etc.). With Aladdin, we only got the villain. Not to mention there’s so many stories from the likes of 1001 Nights, and Arabic, Quranic, general Middle Eastern myths and folklore. It would have been great to at least namedrop Scheherazade in the author plot, given she is one of the most legendary story tellers there is. Or Anansi, a character more recently popularised by Neil Gaiman. Did they bother? No.
They’ve just made no real effort to make room for PoC characters. They seem to relegate them to plots and characters they don’t really care about or put much effort into(Rapunzel comes to mind). They are vastly more likely to be villains, one shot characters, or to die or leave. OUAT has just taken it to an extreme after last night and will only get worse from what I know from spoilers.
It’s inexcusable, and yes, it’s racist. On top of amazingly heteronormative, not that most TV shows aren’t but when they KNOW they have such a huge queer & PoC fanbase this just becomes all the more ridiculous. Even if they delivered on SQ, a queer inter-racial couple, it doesn’t change the overall story being such a rough ride that made this instance look like an extreme exception instead of a healthy progression.
[adrotate group="5"]I don't cause commotions, I am one.
Unintentional racism is still racism. Do I think A and E are setting out to be racist? No. Certainly not. But the way they write the PoC on this show does come across as being unintentionally racist, with no one it the writing room realizing it. It’s an issue when every single PoC on the show is being treated the way they are being treated.
I can see your point however I wouldn’t necessarily call it racism for the reason that racism is bullying based on someone’s race or skin colour. Bullying is the persistent and DELIBERATE intent to belittle and cause feelings of negativity and low self-worth in others. Whilst the lack of POC certainly does seem to be a recurring thing, if A&E
aren’t deliberately doing it then it’s not bullying which means it’s not racism. But I can totally see why it does appear that way.And the story they keep writing is that PoC are easily disposed of or secretly white people. It’s…an issue.
It is an issue but there also plenty of white characters that just disappear and what not so it’s not just an issue that’s relegated to POC characters.
Zelena being alive does not necessitate Marian dying in the way past, or as someone else put it, before the show actually had to deal with her in any meaningful way. She spent most of 4A passed out, and then in her big return: she’s been dead all along and is really a white woman. And on top of this, we actually saw a really strong woman in Marian in the EF flashbacks. It’s insult to injury.
Again I think it’s more a case of A&E didn’t know what to do with Marian beyond using her as an obstacle for OQ which backfired on them rather than them deliberately side-lining Marian because she’s a POC.
If they’d made Mulan instead of Will a regular, the fandom would have cheered. They could have given Cruella whatever she wants before Ursula. A thousand little choices that they’ve made that could add up to a more diverse and interesting cast.
I agree. Will hasn’t got a purpose in Once so having Mulan instead would’ve presented more story opportunities IMO. I’m quite enjoying Cruella on the show so I’m glad they didn’t get rid of her too early but I would’ve like Ursula to stick around longer. They should’ve got rid of Maleficent and kept Ursula on.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI wouldn’t necessarily call it racism for the reason that racism is bullying based on someone’s race or skin colour
That is not how racism is defined.
Racism is: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
So being able to group all the PoC in OUAT as “disposable” that’s racism because none of them have been fleshed out at all. They all serve the same purpose because they are all “the same” to the writers.
Racism is a set of beliefs, either intentional or unintentional, not a series of actions taken based on belief.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Did they have to cast white actors for Anna/Elsa
Yes. It seems like they only got permission to use Frozen if they kept the characters as close to their movie counterparts as possible and since movie Anna and Elsa were white……
It’s inexcusable, and yes, it’s racist. On top of amazingly heteronormative, not that most TV shows aren’t but when they KNOW they have such a huge queer & PoC fanbase this just becomes all the more ridiculous. Even if they delivered on SQ, a queer inter-racial couple, it doesn’t change the overall story being such a rough ride that made this instance look like an extreme exception instead of a healthy progression.
SQ isn’t happening and it’s not because they’re both women. There is too much history between Regina and Emma’s family. If none of that history had happened and Regina was just the woman who adopted Henry who might still have been an evil queen but without the Snow connection, then I might’ve rooted for SQ as a romantic pairing. But as it currently stands, the Snow connection makes SQ unable to work romantically, still ship them as a friendship though.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixBut when they constantly squander opportunities to include PoCs in a relevant way, it is a really, really big issue. If they’d made Mulan instead of Will a regular, the fandom would have cheered. They could have given Cruella whatever she wants before Ursula. A thousand little choices that they’ve made that could add up to a more diverse and interesting cast.
Yes! The writers could do a better job of incorporating more diversity into the show in a lasting and meaningful way. To be somewhat philosophical though, it’s not only POC who suffer from what @RumplesGirl calls Shiny Toy Syndrome; these show-runners just simply don’t have a great track record of keeping ANY secondary character relevant, whether white or not (see Belle, Will Scarlett, Ruby, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Wendy Darling, Ariel, Rapunzel, Mulan etc). Having said that though, I totally agree the writers could do a much better job of having a more diverse core group of actors as fairytale characters.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I wouldn’t necessarily call it racism for the reason that racism is bullying based on someone’s race or skin colour
That is not how racism is defined.
Racism is: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
So being able to group all the PoC in OUAT as “disposable” that’s racism because none of them have been fleshed out at all. They all serve the same purpose because they are all “the same” to the writers.
Racism is a set of beliefs, either intentional or unintentional, not a series of actions taken based on belief.
I stand corrected.
However I stand by the point that it’s not just POC characters that get “disposed” of, it happens to white characters too.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI can see your point however I wouldn’t necessarily call it racism for the reason that racism is bullying based on someone’s race or skin colour.
no it’s not. racism is an institution that oppresses certain groups and favours others(usually white people). this is what is meant when we talk about racism.
and please don’t bring up the dictionary definition argument either. there are any number of problems with that, so i’m just asking you respectfully not to do it.
SQ isn’t happening and it’s not because they’re both women. There is too much history between Regina and Emma’s family. If none of that history had happened and Regina was just the woman who adopted Henry who might still have been an evil queen but without the Snow connection, then I might’ve rooted for SQ as a romantic pairing. But as it currently stands, the Snow connection makes SQ unable to work romantically, still ship them as a friendship though.
this doesn’t stop anyone from shipping OQ and CS despite the awkward connections. also, that’s only an issue according to your standards. most people don’t really care about that, except to use as an excuse to shoot down SQ.
just because someone say it’s not because of racism, or not because of homophobia doesn’t mean it’s not a thing. most people aren’t experts in recognising cognitive biases etc. whereas when you’ve lived that life you kind of have to be to some degree.
I don't cause commotions, I am one.
However I stand by the point that it’s not just POC characters that get “disposed” of, it happens to white characters too.
Does it happen to every white character? (and honestly after this question I shouldn’t have to ask more to show the difference in how the two sets of people are being treated) We’ve had plenty of example of white characters getting fulfilling happy endings. We’ve had one PoC get hers and it was in one episode and then she was instantly shuffled off to the side.
Is the majority of our regular cast made up of white people?
Are all those white people most likely gong to get happy endings with other white people?
Are those minor white people fleshed out more realistically than the PoC–like Cora, Pan, Walsh, the dwarves, the BF?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Unintentional racism is still racism. Do I think A and E are setting out to be racist? No. Certainly not. But the way they write the PoC on this show does come across as being unintentionally racist, with no one it the writing room realizing it. It’s an issue when every single PoC on the show is being treated the way they are being treated.
I can see your point however I wouldn’t necessarily call it racism for the reason that racism is bullying based on someone’s race or skin colour. Bullying is the persistent and DELIBERATE intent to belittle and cause feelings of negativity and low self-worth in others. Whilst the lack of POC certainly does seem to be a recurring thing, if A&E aren’t deliberately doing it then it’s not bullying which means it’s not racism. But I can totally see why it does appear that way.
And the story they keep writing is that PoC are easily disposed of or secretly white people. It’s…an issue.
It is an issue but there also plenty of white characters that just disappear and what not so it’s not just an issue that’s relegated to POC characters.
Zelena being alive does not necessitate Marian dying in the way past, or as someone else put it, before the show actually had to deal with her in any meaningful way. She spent most of 4A passed out, and then in her big return: she’s been dead all along and is really a white woman. And on top of this, we actually saw a really strong woman in Marian in the EF flashbacks. It’s insult to injury.
Again I think it’s more a case of A&E didn’t know what to do with Marian beyond using her as an obstacle for OQ which backfired on them rather than them deliberately side-lining Marian because she’s a POC.
However I stand by the point that it’s not just POC characters that get “disposed” of, it happens to white characters too.
I agree. As I wrote above, the show-runners of guilty of Shiny Toy Syndrome. As soon as they grow tired of their new toys, they move on to the next batch of new characters. So both white and non-white characters get passed over. How I wish these writers could simply (1) see a character arc through to its natural conclusion (2) not immediately pass over important characters as soon as a new one comes along and (3) work on diversifying their core cast of regular characters. ABC has plenty of shows (Galvant) for instance, in which the core cast is composed of a multicultural and multiracial group of actors. So the problem really is down to the show and its creators, rather than the network.
Why did they kill off Lancelot, never to be heard of again? Did the writers intend to return to his story? It seemed like the writers were going to be visiting Camelot again, but then they got the rights to Neverland, and it got passed over.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
The topic ‘Congrats to OUAT on becoming one of the most racist shows on TV rn’ is closed to new replies.