May 14, 2013 at 11:33 am #194147PheeParticipant
It is difficult to tell because he seemed to be very conflicted between wanting to be good and getting revenge.
Indeed! Loved how we had one scene where he was all, “I can’t part with him now, not when I know he’s the Dark One’s son,” and then another scene where he was all, “We can live the life that Milah wanted for us.” Both statements were genuine, and it just goes to show how conflicted he was over how he felt about this kid.
There’s just something about that scene at the helm…it starts off nice and fun, then there’s a moment where the mood suddenly changed, sort of like Hook was thinking, “Right, I’ve got him on side by letting him steer the ship, now down to business,” and then he asks about Bae’s father and launches into his story. It seemed planned.
Also, Hook doesn’t look at Bae while he’s telling the story. Sure sign that someone’s not being honest is if they don’t look you in the eye, and it was like Hook couldn’t look Bae in the eye, because he felt bad trying to scam Milah’s son. A couple of times he glanced over, but only for a split second before his eyes darted away again. I guess he could have still been telling the truth and just couldn’t look at him because he was using his story with the intention of manipulating Bae.
Basically, I’m not believing it unless and until we actually see it in a Killian flashback.[adrotate group="5"]May 14, 2013 at 12:06 pm #194150hookianBlocked
Sounds too far-fetch’d for my taste. The theory doesn’t really hold merit and it’s too early to tell. I doubt we will even see Hook’s father in a flashback. Besides he’s already a member of the family as of the last episode. I’m sure we will get a flashback to Killian in his youth but it’s likely ot be when he was already abandoned.
Personally I still believe he was Peter Pan if not the first one. Kind of like how TDKR said that Batman was a symbol, maybe that is what Pan is.
Family isn’t only tied by blood, this show says that more than anything.May 14, 2013 at 12:29 pm #194152kfchimeraParticipant
Family isn’t only tied by blood, this show says that more than anything.
It also inadvertently sends the message that while Blood is not the only tie, it may be more important. Ruth sacrificing herself so Snow can be cured of being baren? What if the show had been written that the EQ gave up Emma, and Snow & Charming adopted her? There’s Neal saying Rumpel is his blood and Zoso taunting Rumpel about Bae’s paternity.
I wonder if in the second season they have been more concerned about that and therefore are trying to stress that family can be forged by choice.
As to Hook being family, I agree. Pirates are not living by societal conventions and formalities, so his relationship with Milah was every bit as valid to him and her as if they had been married. He would have raised Bae, and Henry is emotionally if not legally his step-grandson. Funny, it parallels Regina, especially if Hook were to adopt Henry because of forming a relationship with Emma (or Regina).
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-GlassMay 14, 2013 at 2:49 pm #194187
Basically, I’m not believing it unless and until we actually see it in a Killian flashback.
An Adam and Eddy statement would do as well, but yeah, I’m not taking this at face value yet either.
Besides he’s already a member of the family as of the last episode.
Eh, I wouldn’t go that far. He seems willing to become part of the family, sure, but out of the six he’s the one with the most tenuous link. Snow, Charming and Rumple are Henry’s grandparents, Emma is Henry’s biological mother and Regina is Henry’s adoptive mother who, despite all her flaws and emotional scars, raised him better than Emma could’ve when she gave him up for adoption; they all have an emotional bond with Henry, which Hook still has to develop. He’s doing this to honor his brief memory of Bae; it’s a start, but it’s not there yet.
Nothing wrong with that. Regina and Rumple both spent the whole season being torn between doing the right way, slowly earning the respect and care from their loved ones, and the easy way, taking what they wanted by force without caring what others thought of that, and it’s only natural that by the finale they’ve come to terms with who they want to be for the sake of those they love, Henry and Bae/Neal. That’s a journey Hook is just beginning to take; he doesn’t have yet a deeper emotional connections with any of the family (unless you count his absolute hatred of Rumple 🙂 ) to justify a more permanent change, I can totally see him ping ponging next season just as Regina and Rumple did on this one.May 15, 2013 at 7:30 pm #194680MysteryKat25Participant
I’m inclined to believe part of Hook’s story about his past if only because the best lies have some kernel of truth. Even if he was just hunting for information from Bae, he knew how to relate to him on that level because I’m convinced he was in a similar situation. It also explains why he was actually willing to give up revenge agenda to try to give Bae what neither of them had because he saw something in him that reminded him of himself. I think it was also confirmation to him that Rumple was even worse than he thought. Not only did he kill Milah and take Hook’s hand, he destroyed his son’s life by abandoning him and choosing power over him.
Not sure where else to put this so I’ll throw this in here for now (RG please move it if you feel it needs to be somewhere else or point me in the right direction!)
I found an interesting post on the history of Davy Jones (some have theorized a relation to Hook because how many FTL characters do we have a last name on? It’s there for a reason).
The full thing can be found here: http://davyjones02.hubpages.com/hub/Old-sea-legends-The-Incredible-story-of-Davy-Jones-and-his-Locker but I will highlight what I found interesting.
The different stories of Davy Jones:
Pub Owner: In one of the stories Davy Jones was the owner of a British Pub who would get sailors intoxicated and lock them in his ale locker and later lock their unconscious body in ships that were passing through the harbor. The story also tells of his pub going bankrupt and him deciding to become a pirate by stealing a ship from the harbor. He then supposidly sailed the Atlantic Ocean and hijacked other ships where he would decapitate or keelhaul most of the ships crew. The surviving crew would be locked in the ship and the ship would be sunk. The story also tells of this pub owner selling his soul to the devil.
Captain of the Flying Dutchman: In some stories Davy Jones is the captain of the Flying Dutchman named “Vanderdecken”. The Flying Dutchman supposidly was a ghostship that had to wander the seas forever because it could not make port. The story goes that Vanderdecken hailed out to the sky on a trip from Holland to Batavia: “God or Devil… I will sail around the Cape, even if it means sailing towards our last judgement”. then the Devil took control of the ship and as a price the ship had to sail the seas forever, the dead crew working on forever without saying anything ever again…
Let’s start with the Pub Owner – didn’t Hook say his father was a fugitive? He didn’t say from what, but what I gathered from his story was that one day he & his father set out on a ship to sail the realms and then one night he just disappeared because he was a fugitive which means he was running from something that happened before being on a ship more than likely. I don’t remember if Hook said specifically that they ran off to be pirates, but it would be interesting if his father turned out to have been a pub owner who went bankrupt and did something drastic, forcing him to take his son and flee, eventually leaving him to further escape.
Since we do get backstories eventually I fully expect to at least see a tiny bit about Killian’s father and more than likely, there will have been some “good” reason for him to abandon him as that it typically the case (or we’re at least shown why the CHARACTER thinks it’s a good reason) but we don’t know how old Hook was when this happened etc. (it could be like Milah not wanting to go back for Bae until he was older as a pirate ship is no place for a 6 year old).
I also highlighted the selling the soul to the devil bit for those people who enjoy the Killipan theories.
Now on to the Captain of the Flying Dutchman: “could not make port” reminds me of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies (obviously) where he could only be on land for 1 day every 10 years. The reason it jumped out OUAT-related is that supposedly, as far as we know, once you set foot on land you can never leave. (We know in some cases that isn’t true but we have yet to see Hook set foot on land either so…might or might not be of any significance).
The other part I underlined was just because it was worded as a “price” for the choices he made. The idea that it’s sailing around forever because of that is similar to there always being a price for using magic, as well as the fact that the ship that is sailed by Hook spent an awful lot of time in Neverland which would mirror the ship of Davy Jones being forced to pay for his sins and sail forever.
I’m not sure if I love any of the Davy Jones / Killipan theories, but I noticed the wording on this stuff and thought I’d pass it along for anybody who is looking for connecting ideas, especially since some of these things scream OUAT to me (that could just be the magical OUAT filter that is now on everything and taking over my life…but it’s fun and sometimes adds merit to theories, so let the theorizing commence and make of it…whatever you will). Look forward to seeing what people come up with! I’m very interested in Hook backstory and why he is named Killian Jones (there’s always a reason, always).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.May 15, 2013 at 7:41 pm #194682RumplesGirlKeymaster
I keep watching that scene over and over trying to decide and I think Kat has it right: even if it is a lie, it’s a good one which means there has to be some element of truth to it. I think telling Bae his story served two purposes:
1) He was trying to get Bae to spill maybe something about Rumple. I don’t think he expected to hit the mother load of the dagger, but he was fishing for information
2) He really was telling Bae his story.
I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive and it works together knowing what we do about Hook’s general character: he’s a villain but he’s also a good man capable of deep love.
I think there are serious elements of truth to what Hook was saving: particularly about his father abandoning him. Remember what he said to Emma about the Lost Boys? The look they had in their eyes? That’s how he knew Emma was abandoned as well; well I think it works on him too.
Hook: Ah, but you don’t want to abandon him the way you were abandoned.
Emma: Was I?
Hook: Like I said, an open book.
Emma: How would you know that?
Hook: I spent many years in Neverland – home of the Lost Boys. They all share the same look in their eyes… The look you get when you’ve been left alone.
Emma: Yeah, well, my world ain’t Neverland.
Hook: But an orphan’s an orphan
The devil is in the details, I believe. Naming him Jones is no coincidence in my opinion given that Davy Jones is a legendary (literally) sailor and with the PotC franchise he’s a very recognizable name now. The only thing I might take issue with is who his father really is. This is sort of hand canon, but I’ve always believed that Hook is going to turn out to be a lost Prince. I tend toward the notion that Davy Jones raised him, but only after he was spirited away by forces that sought to take his throne. So even Hook may not know his own backstory."He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"May 15, 2013 at 8:59 pm #194697
The most crackpot theory I’ve seen about this is that none other than PETER PAN is Hook’s father! 😆May 15, 2013 at 9:52 pm #194710MysteryKat25Participant
The most crackpot theory I’ve seen about this is that none other than PETER PAN is Hook’s father! 😆
That’s a new one! I’ve heard lots of Hook is Pan theories but uh…Hook’s father being Peter is definitely new.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.May 15, 2013 at 10:16 pm #194715
I’ve heard lots of Hook is Pan theories
Those have just been debunked for good, as have those that involve Bae and Henry:
https://oncepodcast.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=4140&p=61678May 15, 2013 at 10:44 pm #194721kfchimeraParticipant
Pan as Hook’s father could definitely be a rather weird spin on things–like if Pan had the clock turned back to make him a boy (something Rumpel had wanted to do to Bae) but he still retained his adult mind. Pan seems rather well organized for a real child (that is, if he is indeed calling the shots for the HO, as opposed to a false conclusion we all reached). It still could be that the HO considered Pan more dangerous, and knowing he was after Henry, needed to grab Henry and take him to NL for some reason yet to be revealed. They love their fake outs. Or Pan is a disembodied former “original power” that is nothing but a shadow (but not THE shadow we saw) and searching for a host body. I’m wondering what the casting news will reveal. Will it be a young actor or old actor–they aren’t pulling a gender twist so that’s really all we have now.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
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