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With that argument, means that Emma dying a hero to give everyone their happy endings, is also ok. The show already showed several times that in death you can get your happy ending, what guarantees you that if Emma dies, she won`t move on to a better place, because she did what she was born to do, be a savior. And if people, going to say Hook and Henry and snowing wont get their happy ending, the same applies to neal, Henry also lost his father( the real one), Rumple lost his son, so if saying that Emma dying means not all characters get their happy ending, means in this case no matter how the show ends, Henry and Rumple at least already dont have their happy ending, becaus ethey lost a father and son. The thing is romantic loves you can get others, family you only get one. The same also applies to Robin, what happy ending will get Roland without both parents, or the new baby without her father. The argument of people die can´t be use to some characters and not others.
Right, but I’m not talking about happy endings. Not everyone can get a happy ending. There are villains who kill people and take those happy endings away. It doesn’t always work out. But that’s different than the idea of hope. As Snow says, believing in just the possibility of hope is a very powerful thing. It’s powerful because we all know not everyone gets a happy ending, but if you have hope, it makes the time you still have living in this world worth living.
Why is it that the good guys die without getting their happy ending, but bad people who have committed murder or rape (like Regina, Zelena, Rumple and Hook) gets to have their happy ending? Is it because they really deserve one or is it because they are fan favorites who have a very loud fanbase?
And again, getting a happy ending is different from hope. Not everyone can get a happy ending. That’s not how the world works. No one would die on the show if that was the case. But just because some people die does not mean the show is not still about hope. The idea of hope no matter what awful things present themselves, including death, is something I believe they have kept consistent. In fact, having terrible deaths to beloved characters only further emphasizes why having hope is so important for the characters that are still around. And as far as people like Zelena, and Rumple, and Hook getting happy endings…well yeah sure they are fan favorites and important to the show so of course they will likely get them. But I think the show, as much as it is about hope, it’s also about redemption and forgiveness. Some characters don’t get that opportunity. But the characters you listed might. THESE characters have HOPE that they can turn their life around and get the ending they deserve. If anything, the show showed that you need to be a good person and have hope in order to potentially get that happy ending (see season 4b when the villains didn’t end up getting what they wanted). But to me, that doesn’t send the wrong message about hope since other characters who haven’t killed anybody died and didn’t get their happy ending. Hope is for everyone. Someone who has been horrible in the past, like Regina, can have hope that she can have the strength to turn her life around, become close with her family and Henry, and find true love again. That’s her happy ending and she deserves to have hope for that, no matter what happened in the past.
[adrotate group="5"]But that’s different than the idea of hope.
But that is not what some people in this thread was talking about, if emma dies some people related to her dont get happy endings and there is no hope for those characters and is how A&E see or at least used to see it, for them Hope and Happy ending and family show are together as one, also for viewers, if the show gives a notion to viewers that villains may have hope of getting a happy ending, but other characters that suffered all their lives dont, so where is the hope in that? So Hope and HE are diffent things, but they are together.
Now i will stop talking about this, because this thread is not to speak about HE and characters, is to speak about Robert leaving or not, like i said, i don`t believe anyone will leave, and this is all this talk from actors is something to get more money from ABC.
Also, one thing, in Castle last season, was not a case of Stana didnt want to sign new contract, was a case of ABc wanting to cut budget from shows and didnt renew some actors contracts, in fact even Show runners were caught surprise by this, was in the season before the final seaosn, that Stana was making herself dificult to get more money. Which by the way, i believe that any future season or seasons of OUAt will have a lower budget than the previous ones,meaning they have to cut somewhere."I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
The show being about hope is not about the characters on the show just hoping for random things. In the show, the characters are all hoping to get their happy ending. They hope that good will win, whether through defeating the bad guys or having them turn into “good” guys, aka “redemption”, so that they can get their happy endings. Emma helps people like Cinderella and her sister, so they can get their happy ending. Emma is afraid if she clips her saviorness away with the shears that everyone she has helped will lose their happy endings. Regina’s arc for the entire show has been about getting and losing and starting over the path to finding her happy ending.
Happy endings on this show are just being with a guy and having a kid, as much as the writers want to pretend at times that it is something else, that is what it has become. I think they are trying to fix that with Snow going on about things getting back to normal this season, but still the characters haven’t talked about anything that equates to stability except with Snow teaching again.
It comes back to the writers being unable to write good character moments. Emma is dating someone, but they haven’t talked about all of the things that they should have talked about and probably never will. Emma still hasn’t and never will, in my opinion, ever talk about all her childhood, growing up alone, issues in the detail that would make sense for the characters. These problems exist for all the characters and if the writers actually did the character work then the show would feel hopeful, but they pretty much are like: they hugged, we said they are family, they live together, they are married, they have a baby. They are done. This is a happy ending.
I think it is pretty much useless to talk about hope on OUAT because it in and of itself is a such an intangible idea; someone’s definition of hope is going to be different than mine and different than A and E’s. What people mean when they say “I have hope for CS/ I have hope for SF/ I have hope for SQ/ I have hope for Emma..ect” is “I want the story to go the way I want it to go.”
There’s a reason why Adam stopped giving out #hope like it was candy on Twitter. He used to tell anyone, from any subsect of the fandom, to have #hope and people took it to mean that the show would go the way they wished (remember when he told the WoodenSwan shipper to have hope *after* August had been reduced to Pinocchio??). Adam later had to backtrack this that he meant “hope for a good story, no matter what.”
So is the show about hope? Well, maybe, but only if your definition of hope includes XYZ but not ABC (whatever those variables are for you personally).
For me, because the show is more concerned with redemption rather than justice, because there are some questionable (to put it mildly) morals and socio-cultural positions, because character arcs are determined more by popularity rather than narrative heft, then I’m not so sure I can see hope in the show except in the broadest sense of the word–that the characters who make it to the end will get a happy ending and thus “hope” was delivered.
And I think that might be what A and E mean because at the end of the day, hope is just as intangible for them as it for us, the viewers. It’s a buzz word for them; something that sounds really good in a press release or a con or an interview; you constantly hope for happiness, love, acceptance, peace ect but this “hope” won’t actually come until the final frame of the show when there is literally no more story/show to tell. Until then, characters will continue to be tortured to get out the most drama possible; we will continue to see “dark pasts” of characters who like to tout that they aren’t like “that” anymore; we will continue to see little to none of the victims stories; people will continue to die; relationships will form and perish and form again. If it’s hopeful for you–because it’s realistic–then then that’s fine. If it’s not–because the “right” things aren’t getting the hope treatment–then, that’s also fine.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I would sincerely hope ABC has learned their lesson after the Castle debacle. But I also think Bar Farer has raised an excellent point: if S7 is the last (which it undoubtedly is) then depending on what A and E pitch to the network, Emma–while absolutely vital in our eyes–may not matter to ABC in the long run should JMo not wish to sign her contract.
Nothing that JMO has said indicated that she won’t sign a new contract. She’s retweeted the article talking about S7. Her and Colin were the only one’s in the cast. She talked about hope for S7 on her podcast. She said she had no intentions to abandon her character.
So why are we all doom and gloom? And since when has fate on this show been something that can’t be conquered? I fully expect Emma will defeat her fate.
May I also say that even if JMO does not agree to a full term contract for S7, she could always go the way of Nina Dobrev and come back near the end of the season to finish up her arc and the show.
She also is promoting the show still, going to a panel with the writers as well as Colin. That doesn’t sound like somebody that is going to leave IMO.
On a final note Emma is way more relevant and important than any other character on the show. Don’t compare her to the other characters that have died on the show. She is the most important character on the show, she’s the focal point of the show. She’s the reality of the show. Without Emma Swan, there’s no OUAT. She’s also connected to several people and without her all of our characters would not get happy endings. Hook, Snowing, Henry, etc will not get a happy ending. Sorry Neal fans but you cannot ever compare Emma to Neal. Also just saying but Henry was never close to Neal. Yeah he was his father but he barely spent any time with him. Sorry. Sure he misses him but it’s nowhere near the level he would feel if he lost Emma.
Also the season started with Jafar saying “you never hear these words of a savior, they lived happily ever after. What kind of show actually shows you the villain is right, the savior dies. That would be absolutely horrible writing.
Nothing that JMO has said indicated that she won’t sign a new contract. She’s retweeted the article talking about S7. Her and Colin were the only one’s in the cast. She talked about hope for S7 on her podcast. She said she had no intentions to abandon her character.
No I fully expect she will. I’ve said that many times. I’m saying, though, that on the off chance that she doesn’t…ABC *could* still renew the show because S7 is probably the final season–one last attempt to get some cold hard cash, lead actress or not. ABC’s priorities are vastly different than writers and fans. We care about story; they care about $$. The show Castle and what happened with their lead actress (and half their cast) is proof of that. Now, it blew up in the faces (hence the first line of what you quoted from me) but it’s worth mentioning that ABC is more concerned with money than they are with narrative and who/what is the heart of a show.
What kind of show actually shows you the villain is right, the savior dies. That would be absolutely horrible writing.
Not a Buffy fan, I take it?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"What kind of show actually shows you the villain is right, the savior dies. That would be absolutely horrible writing.
Not a Buffy fan, I take it?
Emma already went through her sacrificial “death” ie S4B finale and there’s a big difference between jumping into a hell gate that will destroythe Earth and literally losing a sword fight and being stabbed in the stomach. She took the place of her sister, whom was the fated one to die. Death was Buffy’s gift, and she took the place of her sister whom was made from her. That’s not the case with Emma, it’s just that oh she loses a swordfight bc of shaky shakies that have never appeared before. Big difference between the two scenarios.
In the same episode where Jafar says you never hear the words they lived happily ever after for the savior. That would be horrible writing if Jafar ends up being right and Emma does not live happily ever after because she’s the savior. That would be some of the worse writing I’ve ever seen and so many people would leave.
While I lean to Emma will get her happy ending. If Jmo leaves ( doubt she will) there is a possibility Emma could die with the peace and happiness to know her family is safe and protected. Import female and male lead characters die. Sleepy hollow is an example. And yet that show is trucking onward without her.
Also I agree Rg all this happiness and hope stuff is so perceptive because let’s say characters story got switch henry died in the end will this show be about hope to all. For some it might for others it would be tragic. Let’s say Emma died but you see her at peace in the afterlife realm watching her family grow and expand as some celestial being. For some that be hopeful for others not so much. And some it’s bittersweet. Another example what if Hook really remained dead. The other characters mourn his loss but eventually find happiness with those who are with them. Some will find it about hope others will scream hope is loss. At the end as Rg remarked hope is subjective to perception and personal wants/desires. I hope for what I think and want to occur therefore if it happens it’s hope and good and happy ending True to story etc. Etc. but if it’s not then it’s tragic and broke all sense of hope every that this show try to convey.
To me It’s about money and business and what’s popular or not and has little to do with some powerful deep message that goes beyond what’s marketable and profitable at the time. I loss hope that this show goes deeper than that eons ago.
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
Also I agree Rg all this happiness and hope stuff is so perceptive because let’s say characters story got switch henry died in the end will this show be about hope to all. For some it might for others it would be tragic. Let’s say Emma died but you see her at peace in the afterlife realm watching her family grow and expand as some celestial being. For some that be hopeful for others not so much. And some it’s bittersweet. Another example what if Hook really remained dead. The other characters mourn his loss but eventually find happiness with those who are with them. Some will find it about hope others will scream hope is loss. At the end as Rg remarked hope is subjective to perception and personal wants/desires. I hope for what I think and want to occur therefore if it happens it’s hope and good and happy ending True to story etc. Etc. but if it’s not then it’s tragic and broke all sense of hope every that this show try to convey.
I agree completely. What I would have hope for is not the same as anyone else or at the very least is vastly different as many others.
On a final note Emma is way more relevant and important than any other character on the show. Don’t compare her to the other characters that have died on the show. She is the most important character on the show, she’s the focal point of the show. She’s the reality of the show. Without Emma Swan, there’s no OUAT. She’s also connected to several people and without her all of our characters would not get happy endings. Hook, Snowing, Henry, etc will not get a happy ending. Sorry Neal fans but you cannot ever compare Emma to Neal. Also just saying but Henry was never close to Neal. Yeah he was his father but he barely spent any time with him. Sorry. Sure he misses him but it’s nowhere near the level he would feel if he lost Emma.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but you need to understand and respect that others will have a different one. I for one am not a huge Emma fan and definitely not a Hook fan and could care less if they both left the show for their happy endings. I would say without Rumple there is no OUAT, others will say without Regina there is no OUAT, others would say without Henry there is no OUAT (I can see that argument) It is all opinion. As for the comment about Neal not being in Henry’s life and therefore not as important, I would say that yes that is true and that is what is incredibly sad and not hopeful. Neal whether you liked him or not was important to the show and was connected to many of the main characters. His death caused a lot of people not to get their happy endings. Rumple stated in Season 3 straight out that Bae was his happy ending, my point is, that anytime a character dies someone looses their happy ending. Robin’s death left Rolan without any parents (not very happy) Hades left Zelena without her budding relationship (not very happy) and Bae left Rumple in a complete and utter downward spiral which he is still struggling with, Henry without a father, and Emma without her love (none of that was happy)
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