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Rumple told Milah to say hi to Bae before Hades showed up and threatened his unborn child. We know how Rumple feels about leaving his kids fatherless and abandoned because of his own daddy issues. Rumple didn’t enjoy pushing Milah in the river but he’s doing what he can to protect his child. At the least Snowing can’t fault him for that since they took Maleficent’s baby to protect Emma.[/quote)
Thanks.
[adrotate group="5"]"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
I love how much Rumple seems to be enjoying this moment.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
That was a beautiful moment of vindication.
I just wish Emma has paused more; or like Slurpeez said last night, at least asked “what else is Hook keeping from me?”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"From Lily By the way, Hook was being dangled over the River of Lost Souls for refusing to chisel the names of his “friends” on the Underworld gravestones. He just couldn’t bear the idea of sending one of Emma’s family to the Underworld, I guess, which was quite a turnaround considering he was going to send every last one of them to the Underworld to begin with. Consistency is not why we watch this show, guys! We watch it for the weirdly young parents and the insane props they give to their old, grizzled children. #That
He wasn’t the DO this time guys. How on earth is it fair to compare things he did/say while he was the DO and things he’s saying now? Whatever you fully believe regarding the influence of the darkness, we all can agree there is at least SOME influence. So the fact that he’s saying different things now than he did before seems perfectly reasonable.
From Lily By the way, Hook was being dangled over the River of Lost Souls for refusing to chisel the names of his “friends” on the Underworld gravestones. He just couldn’t bear the idea of sending one of Emma’s family to the Underworld, I guess, which was quite a turnaround considering he was going to send every last one of them to the Underworld to begin with. Consistency is not why we watch this show, guys! We watch it for the weirdly young parents and the insane props they give to their old, grizzled children. #That
He wasn’t the DO this time guys. How on earth is it fair to compare things he did/say while he was the DO and things he’s saying now? Whatever you fully believe regarding the influence of the darkness, we all can agree there is at least SOME influence. So the fact that he’s saying different things now than he did before seems perfectly reasonable.
The problem with this line of thinking is that there is no consistency between each dark one and how responsible they are for their actions as the dark one. If Rumple is held accountable for his DO actions then Hook has to be held accountable too. If Hook is excused from his DO actions, in this case trying to send all of Emma’s family to the Underworld, then Rumple should be excused for his DO actions too. You can’t hold one culpable and not the other.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixSo I have a question (admittedly pointless). Did anyone else think that revenge speech Hook gave to (at) Rumple and co about “forestalling the execution” (or something like that, I don’t remember the exact wording) was some heavy-handed foreshadowing?
First, the bizarreness of that speech — and the fact that no one even blinked an eye, like “Yeah, Hook obviously should have a go at Rumple” — was a little off putting. You’d think Emma would pipe up with something like “It’s time to let go of revenge, lets think of our future/how to get out of here” blah blah. But nope. But then it occurred to me that they had Rumple re-kill Milah (admittedly his hand was forced by Hades, but still), so it seems to me that we’re headed straight to Hook renewing his revenge vows. He’ll likely find out what really happened and either (a) finally kill Rumple in some weird version of justice or (b) — and more likely — we’ll have another Rumple groveling in front of Hook scene where he asks him to spare him for the sake of his child.
Otherwise, I really don’t see the point of killing off Milah, plot wise, rather than, say, allowing her to move on. (I mean, yes, obviously we wouldn’t want a Milah-Hook reunion because that’d be awkward for Killie Pooh.) Lord, but this show is tedious.
So I have a question (admittedly pointless). Did anyone else think that revenge speech Hook gave to (at) Rumple and co about “forestalling the execution” (or something like that, I don’t remember the exact wording) was some heavy-handed foreshadowing?
It stood out to me when he said it, but I was too busy rolling my eyes to think much more of it. Probably, it’s meant to show that Hook hasn’t put his vengence behind him the way many claim he has. These writers like to reset their characters a lot by making them relive the same circular themes over and over again.
But then it occurred to me that they had Rumple re-kill Milah (admittedly his hand was forced by Hades, but still), so it seems to me that we’re headed straight to Hook renewing his revenge vows. He’ll likely find out what really happened and either (a) finally kill Rumple in some weird version of justice or (b) — and more likely — we’ll have another Rumple groveling in front of Hook scene where he asks him to spare him for the sake of his child.
If (a) happens, the writers will never live it down. While I don’t expect Rumple to be redeemed and live happily ever after at this point (they’ve made that painfully clear), I don’t know if the writers have the gumption to kill him off for good (unless Bobby wants out of his contract). How is Hook supposed to kill Rumple, unless it’s with the dark one dagger? That would result in Hook becoming the dark one again. Rumple being the “darkest of dark ones” also makes him seem less likely to grovel at Hook’s feet, unless Hook got possession of that dagger and forced Rumple to beg. But, I do think there is something up with that line.
I thought of another possible scenario in which Rumple actually ends up using his powers for good. Perhaps he eventually helps defeat Hades and uses his father’s pipes to lure the lost souls out of the River Lethe, much the way Peter Pan lured the Lost Boys in Nasty Habits. Why else bother to show the pipes if not for them to be used in the plot this season?
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I thought of another possible scenario in which Rumple eventually uses his father’s pipes to lure the lost souls out of the River Lethe, much the way Peter Pan lured the Lost Boys in Nasty Habits. Why else bother to show the pipes if not for them to be used in the plot this season?
The pipes are definitely being a big fat Chekhov’s gun at the moment. I’m not convinced that the writers are going to let Rumple actually use these for a non-nefarious reason since it seems to me that they’re pretty hell-bent on keeping him in the villain category, no matter what. But if not, then I think your theory makes a lot of sense. I suppose that what makes the Lethe valuable (from Hades’s perspective) is that these souls aren’t going anywhere — they can’t transcend, and they certainly don’t have any hope. So I think you’re right, they are going to be at the crux of overcoming Hades, one way or another.
If (a) happens, the writers will never live it down
This is true. But these writers aren’t good at dealing with situations where they paint themselves into a corner. They either go the mad retcon route (likely with Rumple since he’s now a “new man” according to A&E’s interview, for whatever that’s worth), or they kill the character.
Also, this whole Underworld story would have made so much more sense had Neal been around.
Anyway, one more thought on the redemption theme: I’m not even convinced that redemption is a feasible optic to apply to this show anymore. They have too many villains, and they’ve really gone overboard with how villainous those villains are. Not to mention that I’m not convinced that the balancing bank account view of morality (person does bad, then person does good => bad cancels out good) is in any way convincing. Hook’s the best example of how they’re trying to make that work, and it’s just deeply unsatisfying. Tries to kill Emma’s family => changes his mind => is hero. Wut? Anyway, I’m noticing that the only way I can watch this show nowadays is if I approach it the same way as GoT or House of Cards — with the assumption of a morally gray universe.
From Lily By the way, Hook was being dangled over the River of Lost Souls for refusing to chisel the names of his “friends” on the Underworld gravestones. He just couldn’t bear the idea of sending one of Emma’s family to the Underworld, I guess, which was quite a turnaround considering he was going to send every last one of them to the Underworld to begin with. Consistency is not why we watch this show, guys! We watch it for the weirdly young parents and the insane props they give to their old, grizzled children. #That
He wasn’t the DO this time guys. How on earth is it fair to compare things he did/say while he was the DO and things he’s saying now? Whatever you fully believe regarding the influence of the darkness, we all can agree there is at least SOME influence. So the fact that he’s saying different things now than he did before seems perfectly reasonable.
But contrast how quickly it took Hook (amnesia aside, which was weird), Rumpel, and Nimue to take to the Darkness with how long it took Emma (and maybe Merlin?); their resistance to the Darkness. We don’t even know Zoso’s case. Or Gorgon’s.
The problem with this line of thinking is that there is no consistency between each dark one and how responsible they are for their actions as the dark one. If Rumple is held accountable for his DO actions then Hook has to be held accountable too. If Hook is excused from his DO actions, in this case trying to send all of Emma’s family to the Underworld, then Rumple should be excused for his DO actions too. You can’t hold one culpable and not the other.
Pretty much this. But I am going to add one thing: the earlier the action as DO, the guiltier, since the Darkness takes time to take over. But yes, this.
The pipes are definitely being a big fat Chekhov’s gun at the moment. I’m not convinced that the writers are going to let Rumple actually use these for a non-nefarious reason since it seems to me that they’re pretty hell-bent on keeping him in the villain category, no matter what. But if not, then I think your theory makes a lot of sense. I suppose that what makes the Lethe valuable (from Hades’s perspective) is that these souls aren’t going anywhere — they can’t transcend, and they certainly don’t have any hope. So I think you’re right, they are going to be at the crux of overcoming Hades, one way or another.
I guess the only two things that incline me to maintain any hope for Rumple is (a) he’s going to be a papa again and (b) Merlin indicated it was possible for a person to use the darkness for good (someone other than Emma). The implication is that person is probably Rumple. I think his coward days are also behind him, as his “character development” in S5a was meant to show, thanks to Merida making him Brave (TM). While I don’t think he’ll get to live happily ever after again, I see him being very protective of his children. He managed to use the darkness once to end the Ogre War and protect Baelfire, so I could see him doing it to protect his unborn child (*cough replacement baby cough*). However, it could come at some price like his marraige or even worse, his life (assuming Bobby doen’t renew his contract at the end of this season). In 3×11 he said he was a villain and villains don’t get a happy ending. But Rumple dying to save his new kid seems like an acceptable way to go. Of course, it doesn’t explain Rumple being in NYC again.
This is true. But these writers aren’t good at dealing with situations where they paint themselves into a corner. They either go the mad retcon route (likely with Rumple since he’s now a “new man” according to A&E’s interview, for whatever that’s worth), or they kill the character.
I’m not a Rumple apologist, but I don’t think the writers have totally made him evil for evil’s sake again. Probably, he has a reason behind his madness for becoming the dark one again (I hope so anyway). Hopefully, it’s not just addiction. Even “rekilling” Milha (as terrible as it was) is down to Hades threatening his unborn child. Rumple already showed he’s willing to kill to protect his kids. It doesn’t excuse Rumple at all, but I guess it frames it in a way that is understandable. Even Emma killed Cruella to protect Henry.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
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