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Remember that time Hook helped defeat Hades?
Yeah, me neither.
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Yeah, I think @RG is right — in part I think A&E have completely lost control of the meta level of their narrative, and are seemingly assuming that they can control/substitute it with droning on about hope and love and family on social media.
It’s your run of the mill propaganda approach — A&E are constantly attempting to reinterpret their own show in accordance with their stated party line, no matter how poorly the evidence fits it, and hope that their audience is either stupid enough or simply indifferent enough that it’ll take everything they say at face value.
But I think more broadly there’s this overarching feeling that no one — and not even A&E — are into telling this story anymore. I think their own writing is no longer making them think — I don’t get a feeling of play or intellectual excitement from the show the way that it was so obviously there in S1. I think they are all going through the motions, and even the actors are largely, to quote Sean, “serving the writing” and not much beyond that. Even RC and Lana feel a bit lackluster these days — and I think those two are excellent indicator of overall show “morale” because they are superbly talented and also have been on this show since the start. So it seems to me that everyone is going through the motions, and the writing has devolved into typical TV show tropes that are meant to produce “drama,” but there’s very little left that’s actually thought-provoking.
I think there were some really interesting, meaty themes early on in this arc. But then they got dropped, as if following up on them required too much intellectual effort.
There are a lot of big problems but one of the biggest is that I don’t think the writers even know what their show is. They offer up platitudes about hope, love, family, and happy endings but everything they show is in direct contrast to that. How is Robin (and Neal) dying and leaving behind children about hope, love, family, and happy endings? How is Regina never getting to be reunited with her soul mate about hope? How is rewarding a murderer many times over with a second life for doing an over emphasized good work a message about redemption? The writers don’t actually sit with their broad themes and muse on them. They just put them out there as things that you’re supposed to be getting from their show but never pausing to actually consider if their narrative is an accurate reflection of that. It’s like…as long A and E keep giving their song and dance routine about hope, they believe you won’t notice the rooms on fire and there’s no water in sight.
Problem is they aren’t ready to end the show just yet, and they need drama. They can’t give everyone their happy ending and have all the hope finally pay off just yet. Then the show would be over. All of these themes should pay off in the end when everyone’s story has ended. But it’s a tough road in life and you gotta get there. I think it’s unfair to say that they are sending the wrong messages. Let’s see what the final message is when the show is done. If we get to the end of the show, and Regina is still alone and miserable, well yeah that’s a big problem considering what the show has preached all these years. But guys we aren’t there yet.
Why is every tv show killing off main characters lately, it’s like they held one huge cult meeting and voted to all kill off a fan favorite?
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
You kill people off, you get attention. And in a show like this one, where sometimes people DO come back…well, people will keep watching and clinging to a thread of hope sometimes.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Problem is they aren’t ready to end the show just yet, and they need drama. They can’t give everyone their happy ending and have all the hope finally pay off just yet.
Certainly. But some narrative decisions shape the overall story (and its meta messages) in a way that is very difficult to undo. And if these things are then undone, or brushed under the rug, then one wonders what the stakes are. For example, now that Robin is gone, what constitutes Regina’s happy ending? Wicked Sisters? Or a new love interest? That also happens to be her True Love (number 3 at this point). After a point, one will start to wonder whether romantic partners on OUAT are fungible.
Also, I think the overall logic of your argument is flawed. Not to sound like a cliche, but it’s the journey that’s important, not the destination. I don’t care if in the finale the Mother of all MacGuffins descends on SB and everyone is resurrected and live happily ever. If the way we get there is chuck full of vacuous drama for drama’s sake, gratuitous deaths, and increasingly unlikeable characters, no amount of last moment injection of hopefulness is going to improve the quality of the narrative garbage that came before. It’s like trying to fix a disastrous dish by covering it with frosting. You still have a disaster, just with sugar on top.
Right but if Regina’s story after the fact proves to be compelling and it leads us to her “true” happy ending, Robin dying won’t seem like a bad message at all. I’m just saying because we don’t know how this will affect the character or lead to other things, it’s too early to say if this is a bad message or not.
Right but if Regina’s story after the fact proves to be compelling and it leads us to her “true” happy ending, Robin dying won’t seem like a bad message at all. I’m just saying because we don’t know how this will affect the character or lead to other things, it’s too early to say if this is a bad message or not.
I wrote this elsewhere, but I’ll repost it here since I think it’s pertinent. My understanding is that the writers seem to think Regina having “hope” is now tantamount to having inner tranquility, even after suffering repeated loss. Regina not going off the rails this time would show her inner strength and growth as a character. The problem, however, that we’ve already seen Regina be tested and go through this all before: first when she lost Henry during S3a finale and again when “Marian” came back and Robin chose to honor his marriage vows. Neither time did she resort to darkness. Regina turning dark now would be a shame after everything she’s gone through to get to this point. Let’s assume the best that Regina doesn’t resort to being the Evil Queen. Unless Regina gets a new love interest, I think the best Regina can hope for now is to be a mom to Henry, a sister to Zelena, mayor of SB, and friends with the Charmings. Maybe that could be a positive message about being happy even while single; it would actually be nice to see Regina keep it together and find happiness in spite of everything she’s lost. It would be a stark contrast to how Emma fell apart when she lost Hook and couldn’t even function without him.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Unless Regina gets a new love interest, I think the best Regina can hope for now is to be a mom to Henry, a sister to Zelena, mayor of SB, and friends with the Charmings. Maybe that could be a positive message about being happy even while single; it would actually be nice to see Regina keep it together and find happiness in spite of everything she’s lost. It would be a stark contrast to how Emma fell apart when she lost Hook and couldn’t even function without him.
Beside the fact that any man dating Regina should get his affairs in order given the fates of Regina’s last two lovers, I don’t think there will realistically be enough time for Regina to get over Robin and move in. If she did, it would be awfully quick especially as she mourned Daniel for over 28 years plus.
I actually didn’t mind Hook last episode. I liked his broship with Arthur. Hook can work as a character in his own right, the problem is that the writers force him into a role that doesn’t fit him. CS is not good for either Hook or Emma especially Emma whose character has been butchered beyond recognition to make CS work. Her making out with Hook when Robin’s coffin wasn’t even in the ground was disgraceful. Hook’s character is most likeable when he shares a scene with another male character (who isn’t Rumple) and Emma is not present.
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Keeper of Felix
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