Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[RumplesGirl]

You’re right, technically what I’m describing isn’t an archetype in the sense we’ve got a classic name for it, but we are talking about a television show, though that show is about fairytales that do have archetypes

You’re right as well since we are talking about a TV show but *stares at degrees in classics and religion* I have a hard time getting away from my training, I guess.

We’re both right! Let’s go with that. It makes us look even more amazing.

We know A&E love Star Wars

That’s true but by the same token the influence for Star Wars IS Joseph Campbell’s Monomyth. I mean, George Lucas literally read Campbell’s “Hero of a Thousand faces” book and then sat down and wrote the script to SW. So A and E are drawing from SW, but SW is taken from the classic monomyth.

I don’t know about the other writers, but odds are, they’ve got similarly geeky sort of backgrounds and just might be familiar with the kind of character I’m talking about even if there’s not a name to it.

Yes, you’re right. Most of them do have a great geeky background. But if you think abut those modern cultural mythic stories, they are just re-appropriations of the classics. For example, Joss Whedon never considered Buffy a “heroine.” He considered her a hero, in the classic sense, who is also a girl.  I once had a classics professor who argued that after the Iliad/Odyssey/ and Virgil’s Aneid, all innovation stopped and everything is just a retelling of those. *shrug* I like my archetypes and classics, what can I say. 🙂

If Neal is intended as a love interest, then his development makes perfect sense as it is in keeping with how they in general, develop Charming, Henry and Belle. Charming supports Snow, and in the first season Snow received more development but then quickly became (especially to online fans) the obstacle in Regina’s way.So then the question is, but why do they spend time on Hook? Well, they spend time on characters like Jefferson and August, and Cora. They need to have antagonists, and to show their points of view for their actions. I believe Hook was brought in with one idea, that they morphed and stretched for various reasons, reconstituting and recyling the ideas they’d pushed aside for Jefferson, August and Mirror. You can see elements of all their stories repeating in how they approach Hook. He’s got the costume, the looks the style of Jefferson–and the transport element. He’s got a rocky history with Rumple but we’re not sure what it is exactly. Like August, he’s now in the “guide” role, the mysterious, do you trust him “friend” trying to get her to break the curse. Like Mirror, he’s got a crush, he’s sincere about it, but he’s perhaps not entirely aware or just doesn’t care about the feelings of his target as he’s so inside his own point of view about things.There’s more going on of course, as they did have some things in mind for Hook as an original character they brought into the story too, with NL and Pan, but I’m just saying they’ve grafted a few things on there to expand the storylines. We’ll see I suppose whether that means they’re working him into long term plans or they’re just burning off things they’d had to sideline before due to not securing actor contracts.

Good points here.

[kfchimera]

I definitely think these writers are well aware of the patterns of storytelling, and of course reference it in their approach but they clearly want to reinvent things too, while maintaining a story that will be appealing and not off-putting for the viewers in the target demographic.

So we have a lot of uncertainty, but just as I feel no one in the general audience would be happy about Rumple or Regina being happy at Emma’s expense–I do not think anyone out there is going to be happy about Hook being made happy if it seems like its undermining Emma’s progression as a character in some way.   Neal unfortunately, just like Hook, is a secondary character–but Hook is the one being promoted as if he were the central character.   So either the writers are changing their whole concept here, OR…..Hook’s getting the “guest star” promotion treatment because he’s about to be written out–and I have no idea what it is.  It’s all or nothing I kind of feel.

When Voyager added the character “Seven of 9”–a lot of fans were upset that she was just there to be useless eye-candy, and as well that she displaced several other characters to more secondary roles.   Other fans were all too happy to have her there.   I started watching it on reruns but I remembered the controversy, so I hadn’t really become attached to the character she essentially replaced (I can’t even remember that one’s name).  I thought she wasn’t that bad, and had some good episodes towards the end with some depth but I did kind of feel she was over-used (doesn’t hurt to be married to one of the writers/producers I guess).    Hook gives me that same vibe.

He could be basically a “Seven”–and he’s here to stay and like it or not for all the other actors, no matter how it scuttles things that were hinted or not.  If you read anything about that character and reactions from cast/crew and all that, it does kind of feel a similar thing could be happening here.

I just don’t know.

 

 

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[RumplesGirl]

Seven of Nine is a good example–she more or less became the face of the show even if she came in late in the series (4th season). She was sexy and exotic and had chemistry with everyone and because of that she basically the second lead, after the Captain.

Hook’s a bit like that. He was brought in as a sort of Graham replacement (the sexy eye candy in leather with an accent) and because of the chemistry he exuded with everyone–not just JMO–became the face of the show. But then everyone else had to play second fiddle, including the former leads.

*sigh* Who knows right?

Narratively, from our perspective, Neal makes better sense. But our perspective is just one. It’s A and E’s perspective that matters.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[kfchimera]

It is, but I saw this thing on Tumblr that made me laugh–the “Social Media” Intern’s perspective isn’t apparently the only official perspective either.

Web vs Social Media .

I have noticed that the official descriptions of things tend to be off from the “fan online” view.  Take a look at the press release for the next episode too.  I’m copying only the actors names and the characters they play so its not really a spoiler for those who like to avoid them.       Here it is cut and paste (sorry if it gives gibberish code around it) “Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Lana Parrilla as the Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Colin O’Donoghue as Hook, Michael Raymond-James as Baelfire/Neal Cassidy, Jared S. Gilmore as Henry Mills and Robert Carlyle as Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold.”    It kind of stood out to me that whoever typed it up diligently put the alias for every single character that has and uses one EXCEPT Hook and Belle (Lacey).   Does it mean something?  I don’t really think so but I’ve encountered fans who get very upset at people who refer to Hook rather than Killian Jones, implying that in certain scenes he’s “not Hook, but Killian”.  Well…there’s the credits for the episode.    Killian Jones isn’t how they bother to list the character–it’s not a secondary identity important enough for the person writing this up    

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[RumplesGirl]

It is, but I saw this thing on Tumblr that made me laugh–the “Social Media” Intern’s perspective isn’t apparently the only official perspective either.

I saw that. made me laugh.

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[lisas]

Happy Valentines Day Everyone

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/AGStevensTrinityGuardian/ValentinesDayNeal_zps08720e60.png

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[RumplesGirl]

Very nice Lisa!

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[lisas]

Very nice Lisa!

Thanks RG

Keeper of Neal/BaelFire's Blood Magic, Neverland Crossbow, FTL Clothes,Room at Granny’s, Charming & Emma’s Father/Daughter Hugs, Henry's Neverland Crossbow, Rumplestlitskin/Mr.Gold's FTL Walking Stick

[RumplesGirl]

This floated past my Twitter

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[RumplesGirl]

*waiting in anticipation for the horrible Nealfire Valentine that ABCONCE is sure to produce*

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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