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Agreed Phee. On both points.
We just started S3 with my roommate, and last night as I was watching, I kept looking for the things I had missed, clues that pointed towards where we now know the story ends up. But no – just get Mulan & Robin Hood encouraging him to go get his family, go tell him he loves them, go get his second chance. All of that to make his second chance “Go back to your own personal he**, retrieve your kid, watch another ;(&?;$@! curse take your family away, go Uncharacteristically Dark, die.”
All this for a kid who just. wanted. a. family. It was right there – within his grasp – and then he said, “Screw it all, I’m gonna go über-dark like my Papa, despite the fact that I have JUST BEEN TOLD it is exactly what a Wicked Witch wants me to do. I know I’ve been waiting 300 years for my family, but meh, out of patience now.”
W. T. F?!
I am guessing I’ll finish out the season, hoping against hope that my one of my hunches are right and they have an out clause built into the storyline. But honestly… how do we hope for Emma to have a happy ending? Just like Neal, all she wants is a home, a family. And just like Neal, she keeps getting soooo close only to have it ripped away, time and again.
Hey Emma! Here’s a guy who actually loves you and wants a home with you – nevermind. He’s out, enjoy prison! Hey Emma! How about a kid? No, nevermind, probably not a good plan, should probably send him away. Hey Emma! Remember that kid? He’s back and wants you as his family. You just have to break this curse – good job, oh, darn it, hat portal! Hey Emma! Ok ok. We’ll cut you a break. Remember that guy, the first person who ever made you feel valued in your whole life? You can have him back – well sort of – if you don’t mind facing all of your pain, and also, sharing him. Hey Emma! Ok ok, you don’t have to share, he does love only you but now he’s dead… and you get relive all of that mashed-down pain all over again. At least you have your parents to help you through this time… which is great because your kid has gone to Darkest Place Ever. Hope you enjoy your family vacation! Hey Emma. Psyche, that guy is still alive, better unpack your pain again! Did I mention that also, your Mom wants a Replacement Kid? Oh and that your kid’s psychotic great-grandfather is trying to murder him? Hey Emma, ok, you can have your kid back, AND that guy – except no, nevermind, The Curse again & everyone goes zap. But you get to keep the kid this time! Enjoy parenting with no support! Hey, Emma… we know this has all really sucked, but here’s a nice guy for you, in your new life. He’ll treat you well, take you to dinner, hit it off with your son… and then turn into a psychotic flying monkey, because, Another Curse.
Hey Emma? It’s cool, it means you get your family back. It’s Mom, Dad, Replacement Kid… but where DID that guy go, the one person who first loved you for you? Ooh, wait, we found him. Except wait, nevermind, he’s actually his evil resurrected Dad, and in order to fix this, you’re gonna have to be a participant in his death. But it’s cool, Emma. He’ll die in your arms and you can finally have True Wuv. See look, it’s a necklace. And a dead guy. Who spent his life sacrificing for EVERYONE around him, and then got left in the woods to rot. But it’s cool, Emma, The Kid doesn’t remember his Dad, so at least you can spare him that pain. Or talk gibberish to him. One of the two.
Believe in happy endings? Hope, love, second chances? Until I typed that out, I didn’t realize how awful it was – and how a show that preaches hope provides anything but. It’s not just about Neal. If he can’t get his happy ending, I don’t trust that anyone can.
Life sucks, and then you die. That’s our modern fairy tale.
(Forgive me as I go weep myself to sleep for these two fictional people… who represent so many other broken, lost boys and girls… thanks for reminding me they have no chance, A&E. It’s cool, it’s just a TV show.)
[adrotate group="5"]Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
PREACH, dontstopbelievin!!!
I just can’t shake the fact that we’re getting Philora again before the season is over, and the big thing that still needs resolution for them is how she brought him back. Granted, they could also be showing what’s up between them and Zelena, but is that really particularly important, isn’t it just enough to know that she threatened them for whatever reason? But then, couldn’t they make the two stories tie together nicely if Zelena learning how Aurora brought Philip back is how she knew that it was possible to bring Rumple back? They could just leave it as is and say that Zelena just knew stuff about stuff, but it’s a thing that she and Philora have in common now, this bringing someone’s soul back from the darkness situation, so if they DO plan to fill in that VITAL part of Philora’s history, it’s sort of unavoidable to notice the similarity to Rumple’s return. But then how do they show that stuff and make it relevant to present day in any way? It could be relevant to the SF situation. I’m not saying I have supreme confidence in the theory, I’m just saying, if they wanted to do it, it could work, and we know for sure that Philora will be back for SOME reason, and they’ve held off on revealing how she brought him back for this long, when it could have easily been covered with a couple of lines of exposition already.
And worse… worse… he broke his promise to them. “I’ll never stop fighting for you.” Giving in to darkness… is not fighting for his family. What would Henry say? That has been such a guiding notion – I will make the brave choice, the right choice, not because it’s easy, but because it’s best for my child. I will do better because I never want my child to feel the way I’ve felt. Why abandon it at this juncture. Why?
I want a do-over. Someone asked what could redeem the show for me? Fix this. Re-do the scene at the vault, have Neal make the character-consistent choice and say, “There must be another way.” Or, “The price will be too great; I would gladly pay it but I can’t make my child do the same.” Or – make it not Neal, let it be a shape-shifting imposter. Or let it be a bad dream; Emma’s alarm goes off at 8:15 and she wakes to say, “I just had the most horrible nightmare. It was scary and it was weird… weird even for my life.” Perhaps embodying her subconscious fear that Neal will do as everyone else always has, and make a choice motivated by someone who is Not Her.
On a show that requires such willing suspension of disbelief, it wouldn’t be hard. But it would require the writers to realize the grave error they have made, and it appears they stand by their decision. So unless they are standing by because this is already resolved within 3×16-22, I don’t have much hope that it will happen. I think my current hope is that whatever happens in 3B, we open 4 with redux of the apartment scene – alarm, plants, Charlie’s girl, cocoa – but this time the knock on the door is Neal. It would be very Lost-esque and might just restore my faith in this show.
You know, it’s interesting. I work in my job with low-income families. I deal with some Emmas; young moms who come to us for help after their kid’s Dad splits… and though I help them and strive to be compassionate, it’s done out of good intentions and not understanding. I was fortunate to grow up in a functional household, and I made different choices than many as a teen and young adult, conservative ones that mean my life is stable and I’m not a single mom. Inherently, I have no way to get these parents, because my choices were built on my stable foundation, something not everyone has. This show – especially my recent rewatch – has made me understand these parents so much more… I had a Mom in last week and I kept involuntarily calling her “sweetie.” Not really approved or professional, but restrained from the giant hug I wanted to wrap her in. We had just watched Tallahassee & I saw so much Emma in her… this lost girl with a baby… for the first time, I was able to get her, compassionately, from a level of understanding ground-up how these situations come to pass – something I cannot get from my own life. THAT is what good TV does. For every character we connect with because they “are” us, there are many more who teach us who they are. I utterly hate that such a beautiful story has been trashed. What of that Mom? Is she doomed to live her days, clinging to her child, as life tells her again & again she’s not worth it? That’s what Once has taught me from this. THAT is the lesson I have now gotten from the show.
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
That’s a bitter sweet experience for you! It’s a wonderful thing that the show has helped you be more understanding in your job, that’s an indication of how great this show can be. But then the new message they’re sending now, it’s just heart wrenching and hopeless, and what are you supposed to do with that.
In happier news, I just read the first chapter of this fic and spoiler for the end of the chapter…
She stood so that she was standing in front of the casket. With a tender hand, she brushed a strand of hair away from his forehead. “Oh, Neal, I love you. I wanted Tallahassee with you. I always did. But, it’s too late. I’ve realized it and it’s…too late,” Emma whispered, bending down and kissing Neal on the forehead.
A breeze wafted through the room. It was warm and comforting, but also really scary, but very familiar. Emma stumbled backwards as she stared at the coffin. Neal began to cough.
This is how the story should go on the show, but alas.
Valid point, Phee. I had missed your post when I posted my above rant. Since I’ve gotten my whole three hours sleep :/ it seems I am just “up” now so I am just going to serial post, because it somehow seems less insane to type things than say the exact same things in my head.
Regarding exit interviews… based on what I’ve read, here are my things. I’ve hesitated to put them out there for a couple of reasons, but they’re chewing me up on the inside so I may as well let them out. If you are not up for (potentially false) hope from loopholes, stop reading here.
1) They’ve said Neal is dead. They did not say he’ll never ever return. Also, see #4.
2) No one has actually said MRJ has left the show. On the contrary; he has said he neither quit nor was fired – and A&E have indicated they’d like to work with him in the future.
3) We do have a history of both shape- shifting monkeys and bodies that are not what they appear on this show.
4) This is the one I’m kind of clinging to at the moment… they have said Neal. “Neal” is not really a character; he is Baelfire’s adopted persona, taken on when – well, I guess we don’t know that, exactly. Presumptively, Neal was likely born when Bae arrived in the land without magic – as both a reinvention of himself and in order to fit into modern American society. LWM is not kind to those who are unique, so shedding his name as both a way to ditch his legacy as the dark one’s son as well as assimilate into our society makes sense. Conversely? If with Rumple’s sacrifice he is no longer ashamed to be the son of the DarkOne, and with Emma he no longer needs to hide his unique background, I think there is a definite possibility that “Neal” is gone but Bae is a different story. It would be an easy way to semantic their way out, and hide in plain sight.
Part of me wants to tweet Adam with, “We know Neal is dead. Is Bae dead too?” but I think I am too afraid of the answer. I would rather use that shred of hope as a life preserver… slowly freeze to death in the wreckage of the Titanic than drown quickly as the ship sinks. It seems to hurt less that way, if I can slowly acclimate to it.
Honestly, I’ve had ships bounce back from worse. Not often, certainly, but it is far from impossible. If anyone here would like to have faith against the odds, it seems I’m your girl.
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
Hi everyone,
I ‘ve been away from the forum for quite a long time, I had to focus on getting my baccalaureate (the French equivalent of A levels in the UK, the HSC in Australia, or the high school certificate in the US).
I watched the episode yesterday and… I don’t know, I just need to talk about it. I feel betrayed. I truly believed in this show, in its principles, in the fact that you can have your happy ending, but everything disappeared in the space of ten minutes…
Right now, I don’t know what to think about the creators of the show. I just read their interview about Neal’s death, and I felt that it was a huge bunch of lies. Adam says “Eddy and I, as we’ve been developing the larger story of Once beyond each individual episode, saw where it was going. Earlier this year, when we realized this is the time that Neal would die”
It was indeed the time for some characters to go…but it was never time for Neal to die. Neal has been through a lot during the whole show, and they brought him back just to say “actually he died a year ago, but here’s a little death scene bye”. Kitsis & Horrowitz were laughing at us when Adam added “We did our best.”. So your “best” is to kill the most kindhearted character of the show without his son remembering him. Like I posted on the facebook page of “Once Upon A Time Fans”, if Neal’s death was already planned and if it’s really a permanent death, then Kitsis and Horrowitz are nothing but hypocrites.
However, there is still a part of me that wants to believe that heroes fall only to rise again. There are just so many things that don’t match : A hero dies because he didn’t know the price for his actions ? I don’t buy it. They destroy SwanFire even though we learn in the same episode that Neal & Emma have True Love ? And they don’t share a last True Love’s Kiss ?I don’t buy it. Would the creators do something that goes COMPLETELY against their show ? I don’t think so. I just hope that in 322, Neal comes back to life and that he’s the one saying “There’s no place like home”.
“Quiets Minds” reminded me of an episode of The Mentalist. In this episode, the man who murdered the protagonist’s family was finally revealed, after six seasons of mysteries, twists and theories. There was a lot of plot holes, a lack of respect for the continuity, the episode was terribly written, it just seemed to be a parody. The creator of the show said that the storyline was over, without giving any explanation. But guess what ? In the latest episodes, he started to drop clues again and his crew was forbidden to talk about the Season Finale; they couldn’t even give the title of the episode.
Anyway, I just wanted to stop by and see how you guys were doing. Just hang on and keep believing until the very last second of the very last episode.
PS : English is not my native language, so I’m sorry if I made mistakes. But unlike Kitsis & Horrowitz, I did my best 😉
"Whatever spot you pick, that’s our home." #BelieveInTallahassee #HopeForRogueBison
dontstopbelievin, I think you make some good points. I also just can’t shake the feeling that everything isn’t quite as it seems.
2) No one has actually said MRJ has left the show. On the contrary; he has said he neither quit nor was fired – and A&E have indicated they’d like to work with him in the future.
Indeed! The one tweet from MRJ that does sound like he’s moved on is, “When I decide what comes next I will let everyone know here. So stay tuned…” but really, even that isn’t necessarily definitive IMO. EG, he could still have a hiatus project, even if he remains on the show. And “stay tuned” (which he said twice) could potentially refer to the show itself.
Neal has been through a lot during the whole show, and they brought him back just to say “actually he died a year ago, but here’s a little death scene bye”. Kitsis & Horrowitz were laughing at us when Adam added “We did our best.”. So your “best” is to kill the most kindhearted character of the show without his son remembering him.
I know, it just doesn’t make any sense. He’s one of the foundation characters of the show, and to treat him like this, it’s just wrong.
A hero dies because he didn’t know the price for his actions ? I don’t buy it.
Exactly. He knew all about magic having a price. Belle knew all about magic having a price. They both know what dark magic can do to a person. Yet once they found the key, neither hesitated. What is with that, seriously?
They destroy SwanFire even though we learn in the same episode that Neal & Emma have True Love ? And they don’t share a last True Love’s Kiss ?I don’t buy it.
That’s a really glaring thing for me too. Were they just confirming TL status in the hope that it would placate the shippers? The rules that they’ve established in this show is that TL is the most powerful magic of all, TL is the very definition of hope. It’s interesting, but a couple of weeks ago I was saying how they had that scene where Regina went in for the kiss with Henry, but stopped herself, and how it felt like foreshadowing that a TLK between those two is what will ultimately break this Curse, and then we’ll look back and say, “Man, if only she’d kissed him that time in Snow’s apartment, this mess could have been resolved so much quicker.” And now we have SF confirmed as TL, but there’s no kiss. It feels weirdly similar to the Regina/Henry thing to me.
In the previous episode, they had Regina tell Henry that one day he’d have more family than he knew what to do with. And in this ep they killed has father. Are they for real?
Plus there’s the part where they had Z call them both stupid. That is one thing they are not… Belle is book smart & Neal is street-smart. Jointly they are two of the wiser characters on the show. She called Neal dumber than a box of hairs? What kind of insult is that, really?
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
I agree; it just doesn’t make sense to me unless there’s more coming. It may be sour grapes, but there are so many holes. The first and foremost that Neal never got to see Henry again. That’s not a bold story, that’s just kicking people in the stomachs and laughing at them. It’s … mean.
If they’re telling the truth at all and this was planned all along, that poster for Neal is either: Another of those mean-spirited kicks in the stomach or a … clue. I don’t know if I can hope for the latter.
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“Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion.”
-- Dylan Thomas
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