Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire

[theoniongirl]

OK. You know, I hadn’t cried yet. I was angry. But I didn’t cry.

This made me cry.

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/266627240413560123/

[RumplesGirl]

OK. You know, I hadn’t cried yet. I was angry. But I didn’t cry. This made me cry. http://www.pinterest.com/pin/266627240413560123/

Wow. That explain it perfectly.

I’m mourning the loss of a friend (and the show)

My feelings are not immature or wrong. And no amount of meta rationalization is going to change that. Death shouldn’t be rationalized

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Onyx]

OK. You know, I hadn’t cried yet. I was angry. But I didn’t cry. This made me cry. http://www.pinterest.com/pin/266627240413560123/

That is incredibly well put. I have always believed that to be true.

Co-Mayor of Sad Town | Twin of Co-Mayor of Sad Town

[RumplesGirl]

Always

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Rainbow]

I said it on the chat and i say it here, now with more calm, and coldness, free from ouat world, i see that rumple sacrifice on 311 was nothing but one excuse to kill neal on the nexts episodes. We talk like his sacrifice was nothing bc neal die, but the true is, that was design like that, they made rumple sacrifice himself so that they have a reason and excuse to kill neal later on, by trying to save his father.Im starting to think that even the idea of pan was rumple father was also use as plot make the sacrifice powerful so that neal die the same way. The thing is the line of happy endings is stupid if they would kill the character, even if this was prepared like bt season they take 15 ep, to make a crap death, if they wanted him death, they could have use like for example, the 1st curse was made  to get close to him, this second curse would kill him, or some idea like this, like give him few time live in SB after the curse hits, with nothing of dark magic, but bae being connected some how to the whole mytology of the curse, after in SB few time to live.

"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".

[lunatiger]

Hey guys, catching up to everyone’s posts. Wow it flew by today! My heavy heart lessen considerably, it no longer feels like I have stones inside of me. I was able to go to work today and actually concentrate. Though I’m still not ready to watch the episode without feeling that pain again. Nor do I think I can for a long time.

I’ve gone from grief to anger now. Just wanted to post what I wrote (basically self therapy for myself) with all the thoughts inside my head that I just needed to drain out. Posting it everywhere and anywhere. It helped a great deal. Forgive the harshness, I was in a rage mode when I typed this:

 

After crying my eyes out and letting it sink in. I found the episode utterly atrocious at the way it was written. I don’t care what the writers are going on about it being BOLD and feeling “right”. It was a rushed cheap cop out to get rid of the character fast. In the process it made Neal OOC throughout the whole episode, made his death a convoluted plot device that held little meaning and felt repetitive, and then nullified the purpose of season 1-2 all in one fell swoop.

There was absolutely no build up or resolution to his character arc. I can only lament at the wasted potential of his character and the many unanswered questions. What happened in the 200 years he spent in Neverland? What happened when he got to land without magic? What happened in between the 10 years he left Emma? There are just full of holes in his story that will probably never be touched on again. Also there was little to no resolution to the issues Neal faced. He never made due to his promise to see Henry again. He and Emma never really talked about their relationship or whether or not it was salvageable. He barely reconciled with his father in a mere day or so over the 200+ years of hurt. He and Hook hardly touched on their pseudo father/son relationship and the betrayal. All these missing pieces that could have been built up leading to his death were utterly WASTED. Instead they shoehorned everything within 1-2 minutes of each other. If he had to die, a good death would have had his character arc build up and his story-lines pretty much wrapped. The audience would have been lulled into a false sense of security and then bam, he would go out saving the people he loves after his closure.

The other thing that infuriated me was him being OOC. Neal just blatantly using dark magic when he’s been weary of magic all his life and a DO vault that was whipped out of nowhere for plot device. If there was build up on his dilemma on turning to the darkness, I can understand, but it just came out of left field with the 5 minutes of screen time. Also his line about his father teaching him the true meaning of sacrifice was a WTF moment for me. Neal knew about sacrifice. He sacrificed all his life! I found his sacrifice by falling into the portal to save Emma so that Henry won’t be an orphaned more meaningful then the sacrifice then in this episode. All he essentially sacrifices his life for was so that Rumple can divulge a name, which if the Charmings had an iota of a brain would’ve figured it out already. It also cheapened Rumple’s sacrifice at the end of 3A. He sacrificed his life so that Bae and Belle could be happy, only to be brought back to watch his son die again. Rumple’s sacrifice was meaningful because he let go of magic and instead of clinging onto his son he let go to rectify his wrongs. The BOLD thing to do was to let Rumple die permanently. But alas the show was too scared to let Robert C go. I loved Rumple’s character but now it’s getting repetitive to see his man-pain over losing his son AGAIN! UGH! We’ve explored this already in season 1-3A!!!

Where was that CaptainFire hug in 3A??? Absolutely rushed and was an ill attempt to make Hook look better before Neal kicked the bucket. And I didn’t buy the CaptainFire scene for a second. Hook makes it seem like his took Bae in as a son but they fail to mention anything about Hook giving Bae away to Pan because god forbid, they actually ACKNOWLEDGE Hook’s wrong doings. It wouldn’t hurt to have Hook say “Betraying you to Pan was a mistake I regretted all my life.” Or something to that effect, would’ve done worlds for Hook’s character and Bae’s resolution. But no it was yet another crime they just brushed over, and in Neal’s death episode no less!

It also pretty much shattered my viewing of the show as a whole about love, happy endings, and second chances, themes that were pretty much shove down our throats since season 1. Neal/Bae was a person that had crap thrown at him all his life and he never found one ounce of peace in the 300 years his spent alive. That just saddens me to the point of losing hope for myself. Neal was a regular person that I could identify with and looked up to. He wasn’t a monster or murder, but he certainly wasn’t perfect. He made mistakes but he own up to those mistakes, he didn’t brush it aside, and he acknowledge he did wrong. I admire his strength of will of being a good person even against immense obstacles and betrayal. He constantly put others first before himself, which I’ve rarely seen others do for him. He also wasn’t one who took Rumple’s crap, he stood up and told it like it is. People hated him for it but it was the truth.

So to see a good character like Neal just die in the worst way possible was utterly heartbreaking and pretty much destroyed the theme of second chances. People are going to say that’s how life is; some people don’t get happy endings. Really? On a show that preaches about Happy Endings like its gospel? Like it could actually happen? But it seems like in this show no GOOD person gets happy endings, Graham, Lancelot, etc…now Neal. It feels like it a slap in the face. I don’t want to watch villains get second chances, I watch the average joe like Neal (in reflection to myself as the average joe) get a second chance. But no you do good, you work hard, you sacrifice all your life, and then you die. What sort of message does that send across???? I guess I better shoot someone to get my happy ending, because lord knows I do good or make one mistake it gets me killed in the end. There is a horrible imbalance here.

Villains can walk about scott free giving half ass apologies and are able to get a second chance at life and love? WTF? That’s like watching my abuser walking free while I’m six feet under. I don’t believe any sort of message OUAT send across now. If they didn’t preach about happy endings so hard I wouldn’t feel this bitter.
Game of Thrones had tons of sad death scenes, the only difference is that they don’t have posters with taglines that say “second chances” written next to the character they just killed (oh the irony!) GOT’s tag lines are “All men must die” and “When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.” I fully expect a survival of the fittest mentality when watching GOT. They follow through with their messages. To preach about everyone getting Hope and Second Chances and kill off the one that actually DESERVES it the most, pretty much rips at me harder than any walking dead or GOT death scene ever.

Now I just don’t care about the show anymore. I don’t care about any of the present characters either. Charmings are just naïve, pushovers, that let the villians do whatever they want, never having the balls to off someone. Regina and her constant flip flop good/evil thing is getting old hat. Her line of “I regret nothing” and “Someone to destroy.” Has shown me she’s learned nothing for 3 seasons and makes me want to pound my fist on the table. Hook’s constant pinning for Emma, Emma, Emma is also getting old and boring. He pretty much lost his manhood at this point. Rumple’s lamenting over Neal and Belle is also getting old. Emma is slowly turning into Charmings 2.0. Letting the Hook just get under her skin so easily. I was also appalled that she would pair Hook with Belle as her protector. OMG even when Belle obviously looked uncomfortable with the idea. After all he assaulted her twice, pointed a gun at her face, and actually shot her. Call freakin Leroy or Granny or hell Red! Why Hook??? And Emma had to pry an apology from Hook, as if that would make it any better. JFC!

The show turned into a shadow of its former self. I hoped A&E would turn it around, but I was wrong. After all why Hope? They taught me that it’s pointless and futile. Fate kicks you in the arse, you just have to accept it.

I guess I’m just done. My enthusiasm for this show ended when Neal died. Maybe I’ll catch it once in a while but it’s off my list on Sundays.

[RumplesGirl]

I said it on the chat and i say it here, now with more calm, and coldness, free from ouat world, i see that rumple sacrifice on 311 was nothing but one excuse to kill neal on the nexts episodes. We talk like his sacrifice was nothing bc neal die, but the true is, that was design like that, they made rumple sacrifice himself so that they have a reason and excuse to kill neal later on, by trying to save his father.Im starting to think that even the idea of pan was rumple father was also use as plot make the sacrifice powerful so that neal die the same way. The thing is the line of happy endings is stupid if they would kill the character, even if this was prepared like bt season they take 15 ep, to make a crap death, if they wanted him death, they could have use like for example, the 1st curse was made to get close to him, this second curse would kill him, or some idea like this, like give him few time live in SB after the curse hits, with nothing of dark magic, but bae being connected some how to the whole mytology of the curse, after in SB few time to live.

Since we were talking in the chat about this…I sorta believe that rumor from MRJ’s hairstylist on set that he left because of how negative it was for him. The fandom was cruel. He is such a private person and over the course of 2 months got like 300 death tweets. The media never focused on him (son of Rumple. love to Emma, father of Henry) and his importance was drastically reduced after Manhattan.

I think he might have been unhappy. you don’t make someone a series regular in S3 and then kill them randomly with no build up in 315.

There was absolutely no build up or resolution to his character arc. I can only lament at the wasted potential of his character and the many unanswered questions. What happened in the 200 years he spent in Neverland? What happened when he got to land without magic? What happened in between the 10 years he left Emma? There are just full of holes in his story that will probably never be touched on again. Also there was little to no resolution to the issues Neal faced. He never made due to his promise to see Henry again. He and Emma never really talked about their relationship or whether or not it was salvageable. He barely reconciled with his father in a mere day or so over the 200+ years of hurt. He and Hook hardly touched on their pseudo father/son relationship and the betrayal. All these missing pieces that could have been built up leading to his death were utterly WASTED. Instead they shoehorned everything within 1-2 minutes of each other. If he had to die, a good death would have had his character arc build up and his story-lines pretty much wrapped. The audience would have been lulled into a false sense of security and then bam, he would go out saving the people he loves after his closure.

AGREED. So much left undone.

He was killed by plot

All he essentially sacrifices his life for was so that Rumple can divulge a name, which if the Charmings had an iota of a brain would’ve figured it out already. It also cheapened Rumple’s sacrifice at the end of 3A

Cannot handle the heroes being turned into idiots

And I didn’t buy the CaptainFire scene for a second. Hook makes it seem like his took Bae in as a son but they fail to mention anything about Hook giving Bae away to Pan because god forbid, they actually ACKNOWLEDGE Hook’s wrong doings.

Agreed. I don’t have amnesia. I remember Hook giving him to the Lost Boys

Her line of “I regret nothing” and “Someone to destroy.”

Yeah. *sigh* And she gets a whole new family too. I love Regina and want her redeemed but…it has to be WORK.

Bravo Luna. Bravo

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Rainbow]

Hey guys, catching up to everyone’s posts. Wow it flew by today! My heavy heart lessen considerably, it no longer feels like I have stones inside of me. I was able to go to work today and actually concentrate. Though I’m still not ready to watch the episode without feeling that pain again. Nor do I think I can for a long time. I’ve gone from grief to anger now. Just wanted to post what I wrote (basically self therapy for myself) with all the thoughts inside my head that I just needed to drain out. Posting it everywhere and anywhere. It helped a great deal. Forgive the harshness, I was in a rage mode when I typed this: After crying my eyes out and letting it sink in. I found the episode utterly atrocious at the way it was written. I don’t care what the writers are going on about it being BOLD and feeling “right”. It was a rushed cheap cop out to get rid of the character fast. In the process it made Neal OOC throughout the whole episode, made his death a convoluted plot device that held little meaning and felt repetitive, and then nullified the purpose of season 1-2 all in one fell swoop. There was absolutely no build up or resolution to his character arc. I can only lament at the wasted potential of his character and the many unanswered questions. What happened in the 200 years he spent in Neverland? What happened when he got to land without magic? What happened in between the 10 years he left Emma? There are just full of holes in his story that will probably never be touched on again. Also there was little to no resolution to the issues Neal faced. He never made due to his promise to see Henry again. He and Emma never really talked about their relationship or whether or not it was salvageable. He barely reconciled with his father in a mere day or so over the 200+ years of hurt. He and Hook hardly touched on their pseudo father/son relationship and the betrayal. All these missing pieces that could have been built up leading to his death were utterly WASTED. Instead they shoehorned everything within 1-2 minutes of each other. If he had to die, a good death would have had his character arc build up and his story-lines pretty much wrapped. The audience would have been lulled into a false sense of security and then bam, he would go out saving the people he loves after his closure. The other thing that infuriated me was him being OOC. Neal just blatantly using dark magic when he’s been weary of magic all his life and a DO vault that was whipped out of nowhere for plot device. If there was build up on his dilemma on turning to the darkness, I can understand, but it just came out of left field with the 5 minutes of screen time. Also his line about his father teaching him the true meaning of sacrifice was a WTF moment for me. Neal knew about sacrifice. He sacrificed all his life! I found his sacrifice by falling into the portal to save Emma so that Henry won’t be an orphaned more meaningful then the sacrifice then in this episode. All he essentially sacrifices his life for was so that Rumple can divulge a name, which if the Charmings had an iota of a brain would’ve figured it out already. It also cheapened Rumple’s sacrifice at the end of 3A. He sacrificed his life so that Bae and Belle could be happy, only to be brought back to watch his son die again. Rumple’s sacrifice was meaningful because he let go of magic and instead of clinging onto his son he let go to rectify his wrongs. The BOLD thing to do was to let Rumple die permanently. But alas the show was too scared to let Robert C go. I loved Rumple’s character but now it’s getting repetitive to see his man-pain over losing his son AGAIN! UGH! We’ve explored this already in season 1-3A!!! Where was that CaptainFire hug in 3A??? Absolutely rushed and was an ill attempt to make Hook look better before Neal kicked the bucket. And I didn’t buy the CaptainFire scene for a second. Hook makes it seem like his took Bae in as a son but they fail to mention anything about Hook giving Bae away to Pan because god forbid, they actually ACKNOWLEDGE Hook’s wrong doings. It wouldn’t hurt to have Hook say “Betraying you to Pan was a mistake I regretted all my life.” Or something to that effect, would’ve done worlds for Hook’s character and Bae’s resolution. But no it was yet another crime they just brushed over, and in Neal’s death episode no less! It also pretty much shattered my viewing of the show as a whole about love, happy endings, and second chances, themes that were pretty much shove down our throats since season 1. Neal/Bae was a person that had crap thrown at him all his life and he never found one ounce of peace in the 300 years his spent alive. That just saddens me to the point of losing hope for myself. Neal was a regular person that I could identify with and looked up to. He wasn’t a monster or murder, but he certainly wasn’t perfect. He made mistakes but he own up to those mistakes, he didn’t brush it aside, and he acknowledge he did wrong. I admire his strength of will of being a good person even against immense obstacles and betrayal. He constantly put others first before himself, which I’ve rarely seen others do for him. He also wasn’t one who took Rumple’s crap, he stood up and told it like it is. People hated him for it but it was the truth. So to see a good character like Neal just die in the worst way possible was utterly heartbreaking and pretty much destroyed the theme of second chances. People are going to say that’s how life is; some people don’t get happy endings. Really? On a show that preaches about Happy Endings like its gospel? Like it could actually happen? But it seems like in this show no GOOD person gets happy endings, Graham, Lancelot, etc…now Neal. It feels like it a slap in the face. I don’t want to watch villains get second chances, I watch the average joe like Neal (in reflection to myself as the average joe) get a second chance. But no you do good, you work hard, you sacrifice all your life, and then you die. What sort of message does that send across???? I guess I better shoot someone to get my happy ending, because lord knows I do good or make one mistake it gets me killed in the end. There is a horrible imbalance here. Villains can walk about scott free giving half ass apologies and are able to get a second chance at life and love? WTF? That’s like watching my abuser walking free while I’m six feet under. I don’t believe any sort of message OUAT send across now. If they didn’t preach about happy endings so hard I wouldn’t feel this bitter.
Game of Thrones had tons of sad death scenes, the only difference is that they don’t have posters with taglines that say “second chances” written next to the character they just killed (oh the irony!) GOT’s tag lines are “All men must die” and “When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.” I fully expect a survival of the fittest mentality when watching GOT. They follow through with their messages. To preach about everyone getting Hope and Second Chances and kill off the one that actually DESERVES it the most, pretty much rips at me harder than any walking dead or GOT death scene ever. Now I just don’t care about the show anymore. I don’t care about any of the present characters either. Charmings are just naïve, pushovers, that let the villians do whatever they want, never having the balls to off someone. Regina and her constant flip flop good/evil thing is getting old hat. Her line of “I regret nothing” and “Someone to destroy.” Has shown me she’s learned nothing for 3 seasons and makes me want to pound my fist on the table. Hook’s constant pinning for Emma, Emma, Emma is also getting old and boring. He pretty much lost his manhood at this point. Rumple’s lamenting over Neal and Belle is also getting old. Emma is slowly turning into Charmings 2.0. Letting the Hook just get under her skin so easily. I was also appalled that she would pair Hook with Belle as her protector. OMG even when Belle obviously looked uncomfortable with the idea. After all he assaulted her twice, pointed a gun at her face, and actually shot her. Call freakin Leroy or Granny or hell Red! Why Hook??? And Emma had to pry an apology from Hook, as if that would make it any better. JFC! The show turned into a shadow of its former self. I hoped A&E would turn it around, but I was wrong. After all why Hope? They taught me that it’s pointless and futile. Fate kicks you in the arse, you just have to accept it. I guess I’m just done. My enthusiasm for this show ended when Neal died. Maybe I’ll catch it once in a while but it’s off my list on Sundays.

Agree, that is how me and some friends feel to. that is why i can even see the show anymore, the previous seasons, the story between rumple and bae, the reason why the show exist , died in a OC way, is like the whole 2.5 seasons were  lie and on 312 they start writing a new show diferent without connection to previous seasons, not even with S3A( although this had many epi where characters made oc decisions, the hook kiss, emma leting regina take the kid heart, ect) i find also all the other characters and im even starting to think they brought the whole Robin Hood so that they have an excuse for emma to move one with hook after her 1st love died.

"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".

[Slurpeez]

It doesn’t mean I am some sort of anti-Hook/anti-CS person. Also, just because I’m angry at the subpar story telling that resulted in the death of my favorite character doesn’t mean that my perspective is wrong.

Exactly. Having a criticism of the writing is not the same thing as being a “hater.” It’s called having a difference of opinion. Your perspective isn’t objectively wrong; it’s your OPINION.

Instead they shoehorned everything within 1-2 minutes of each other. If he had to die, a good death would have had his character arc build up and his story-lines pretty much wrapped. The audience would have been lulled into a false sense of security and then bam, he would go out saving the people he loves after his closure.

I couldn’t agree more. I think a lot of us Neal fans  feels CHEATED by the way Neal was just written out so quickly, like an afterthought. There was no evidence this was pre-planned whatsoever. In fact the evidence point the opposite direction: Emma went home to NYC, Neal’s home, woke up at 8:15 to “Charley’s Girl” and ended up in Neal’s home city because of a “fire” as in Baelfire.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Phee]

I can only lament at the wasted potential of his character and the many unanswered questions. What happened in the 200 years he spent in Neverland? What happened when he got to land without magic? What happened in between the 10 years he left Emma? There are just full of holes in his story that will probably never be touched on again.

Something I found both weird and infuriating in one of the A&E interviews was that they were asked if we might see Neal again in flashbacks sometime, and they were all, “I’d be disappointed if we didn’t.” But, um, how exactly would they do that? Because the rest of the time he was in FTL in the missing year, he was merged into Rumple’s body, so we won’t be seeing him there. And how would they make any flashbacks to him in the real world relevant, because there wouldn’t be any other present day characters involved in those flashbacks, so it would be incredibly disjointed. I honestly don’t see how they could use him in a flashback of any kind if he wasn’t still alive in present day. He’s not like Graham, who was still with Regina in FTL, so they could work in a believable cameo, and who was in SB with all the others, so it was believable for him to be in those flashbacks.

Also there was little to no resolution to the issues Neal faced. He never made due to his promise to see Henry again. He and Emma never really talked about their relationship or whether or not it was salvageable. He barely reconciled with his father in a mere day or so over the 200+ years of hurt. He and Hook hardly touched on their pseudo father/son relationship and the betrayal.

SO MUCH wasted opportunity. *sigh*

Where was that CaptainFire hug in 3A??? Absolutely rushed and was an ill attempt to make Hook look better before Neal kicked the bucket. And I didn’t buy the CaptainFire scene for a second. Hook makes it seem like his took Bae in as a son but they fail to mention anything about Hook giving Bae away to Pan because god forbid, they actually ACKNOWLEDGE Hook’s wrong doings. It wouldn’t hurt to have Hook say “Betraying you to Pan was a mistake I regretted all my life.” Or something to that effect, would’ve done worlds for Hook’s character and Bae’s resolution. But no it was yet another crime they just brushed over, and in Neal’s death episode no less!

OMG THIS! It’s always infuriated me that many in the fandom brush over that like it was no big thing that Hook handed an innocent child (who Hook had claimed to care about and had lied to in order to use him for info) over to a “demon” (Hook’s own word). And it’s like the writers are totally down with the rotten apples in the fandom, and that just makes me angry and sad. *sigh* Those two have a major betrayal between them, major issues. And while I did like that Hook let him go from the hospital, the sentiment of the scene just felt so lacklustre, now that I’m thinking of it, especially in the same ep as his sarcastic non-apology to Belle. Why couldn’t they have just built up their relationship when they met in NL in S3A instead of having them fighting over Emma? *eye roll* If they’d been building on it then, but things were still frosty, then that scene in the hospital, all of it would have felt fitting and made sense. It would have been the culmination of their reconciliation arc, instead of just some out of the blue scene that felt really random, where Neal was all, “What is this, why are you touching me right now?”

What could potentially salvage this storyline, which should have been deep and emotional but instead just got brushed over, is if over the rest of S3B, Hook comes to realise exactly how much Neal really did mean to Emma, and accepts that she loves him, he’s not just some guy who left her years ago and she doesn’t give a crap. I want to see Hook witnessing some real grief from Emma over losing Neal, some real fire lit inside her to avenge his death, and then maybe Hook will finally get it through his skull how much Emma and Neal loved each other. And maybe seeing Henry without his memories of his father will get to Hook and make him sad, and make him realise that that’s how Bae grew up as well, when his mother wasn’t around and he’d been so young when she left, he probably had no real memory of her. And all of that coming together for Hook could then inspire him to help if they did find that there was a way to bring Neal back, and even though it was dangerous, he’d still do it, for the sake of saving Neal, to make up for having let him down all those years ago. And if that situation resulted in Hook’s death, then THAT would be a death that had reason, made sense, and had allowed a character to grow, which is the total opposite of what Neal’s death was, which was them making him regress to the point of being OOC for the sake of a plot device.

[Author]

Posts