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I’m sorry Angie, it sucks and it’s sad, it’s making me sad as well to see people angry and/or giving up, it feels like a family is being torn apart, but I completely understand why they feel the way they do. Trying to explain an alternate way of viewing it really will achieve nothing, because this isn’t simply a case of different interpretations of a scene. This is something that people have taken personally, because they see themselves in Neal, and seeing him get screwed out of a happy ending affects people on a personal level, and it has a flow on effect of how people view the whole message the show is sending. Perhaps some will be less hurt by it, given some time, and perhaps some won’t, but trying to convince people of a different perspective on this one just ain’t gonna work.
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http://swanthief.tumblr.com/post/80584828801/ill-see-you-both-again
"We were happy."
"Because... it was born out of true love."I keep going back and forth. Sometimes I have moments of, “They really, seriously, legit killed him, didn’t they.” Then I have moments of, “But it just makes SO LITTLE sense, so they MUST be planning to bring him back.” They anchored their story in fricking PHOENIX of all places. The Phoenix can’t be extinguished, even when it looks like it is, it always comes back to life, that’s just how it works, and a TL like that is most definitely fitting for a character with Emma’s biology and magic. I firmly believe that SF was their original endgame plan, and I find it SO hard to believe that they’d do such an ABRUPT 180. I just got done listening to the Once Upon A Fans podast, and both hosts are of the opinion that they’re not accepting that Neal’s really gone unless and until we see the season finale and no one else has died, and that’s the mindset I keep coming back to as well.
Phee, I think you & I are of the same mind here. I said last night, I oscillate moment to moment – and sometimes within the moment – between, “This story sucks so bad,” and, “This story sucks so bad it can’t be the whole story.” I think those podcasters are wise – giving it to the end of the season. At the moment, that’s exactly where I am, watch through 3×22 and then re-evaluate. If it’s going to be fixed, I expect it to be 3×22… after all, someone’s gotta come home to Em(ma) & Henry. (Perhaps that may turn out to be a dropped storyline, but no one will convince me ever that it was not intentional.)
One of the key things I keep coming back to is that, as a regular viewer, this show was so clear to me. It wasn’t until I found the fanbase that it got muddled. So if I step back and look as a casual viewer… I have to look at my roommate’s reaction, because she is not plugged in online. And hers is basically to shrug and say, “He’ll be back. Nobody’s ever really dead on this show.” She is of the same mindset that it made SO LITTLE sense, there must be a bigger picture to sort out in the upcoming episodes.
Don’t misunderstand, I am slowly forging towards acceptance & am not putting stake in any crack theories. I have plenty though, it would be 0% difficult for the writers to undo this if they so choose. I don’t think that’s where they are going, but I think there is enough weirdness that door is not slammed shut. And perhaps that’s intentional in a different way, not that they plan to do it, but that they have given themselves outs should this story paint them into a corner down the road.
This also begats the question, if they have planned Oz since the beginning (monkeys in the pilot,) and Neal’s story since the beginning (45687 things in the pilot,) why did the death just get planned this summer? Seems that should have been part of the plan all along.
I can’t get Florence & the Machine’s song out of my head this morning… “It’s always darkest before the dawn…”
Cause this story needs some mending & a better happy ending...
Just poked my nose in before work to see if anyone was still interested in doing a Nealfire toast at 10 p.m. EST today. Maybe in the chatroom?
I just found out today is the National Day of Hope. Which just sounds like a real kick in the teeth until you realize it’s for child abuse awareness. Thinking about the character, it seems appropriate. (Still a kick in the teeth, though.)
(Rumple is one of my favorite characters. But he’s had a lot to pay for.)
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“Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion.”
-- Dylan ThomasI dont know anymore, like i said here many times, besides the character death and how was handle, that made no sense, they changed their story about rumple father between seasons, this was confirmed by RC, maybe was then that they decided to kill neal, but still looks like rush, just like they brought MRJ after 311 to do nothing, and on 1 epi they put everything the fans wanted to see, with no exact resolution, even the whole conversation between Neal and Emma on the forest was like between friends, not like 2 persons that said they love each other.
Do i think that maybe was actor asking out, maybe that is true, that rumour of the make up , that he was tired of the bad publicity, tired of being bullied, that for me has a lot to blame also on actors and writers, they should have come and step up about this whole ship thing, the fact that one day one fan said to MRJ that emma should end with hook bc neal was ugly and should have stayed dead and they tag colin on the tweet also, and he didnt came and say respect the persons, no they feed them bc they like the to see people fithing each other, and other things they feed with the whole ship thing. So i think MRJ was relieve and being out, and maybe is why the cast doesnt come to say anything, bc they knew that was maybe his decision, bc having a character in 2 epi like 5 minutes, none on the in another epi and then craziness in another and puff dies.
I do believe that dead is dead, hope that they dont bring people from dead on wonderland, will be dificult to explain why jafar can do it and the dark one cant, also rumple accepting neal dead is also pretty oc, so now he will move on with belle like nothing happened, all villains that used dark magic get to live and be happy and the person that most deserve dies, to became a hero bc he opened a damn vault, in a totally OC.So although i would like to know what RC thinks about this, story line, last time rumple thought SB was going to be destryoed, and then Henry was kidnap, so how he is going to react, to mourn his son, after not being controled by the WW anymore. I guess they will make all characters OC after this, with no sense in terms of past storyline.
You know how i could accept like this rush epi? if they came and say that MRJ had a better proposal and we have to eliminate neal, fast, bc he was to important to many characters to make him go back to ny, although they could have use the august story and bring back young bae with no memories of anything, i could even wish now that they could have changed the ideas and made neal and bae 2 diferent persons, maybe this way bae was still around. Bc that is my problem, bae myth on the story was erased, was like he was just a plot to emma, henry and rumple, as soon as he made peace with them was over, that is my problem with the show, is like the show ended on 311 and after that a new show started, well they did say a new way of telling the story was going to happen.
The thing is Bae/Neal was always in danger bc from all regulars he is the only one without a title and a fairy tale persona, everyone on sb have their personas in FL, even the other 2 original characters have titles, Savior and Truest Believer, he was no pirate, no evil queen, no prince charming, no snow white, no rumple, no belle.
After thinging the epi 315 with more calm and cold, and free on the spoiler, when is going to happen, how, to who, in which epi, bc there is also a proof, why not kill neal only on the season finale, and if they wanted him go dark, we would find out he was the one that cast the cusre and sacrifice himself by killing the witch, not wanting emma, rumple and regina go to the dark path bc of henry, that would have been huge and emotional, but let me continue, there are to many errors on the epi, starts on 314 at the ball, where is neal and belle looks like she is happy, if they dont know where is neal back then why they arent worried? who were all those people and what kindgom is that? the story line say 9 months ago, so how many months snow is pregnant, not 9, bc if is like normal people by now she should have the kid already, also on 314 she is pretty pregnant already.Then on 315, hook leaves the charmings and only after that neal talks with them about rumple and hok said that he heard him talk, then the whole OC Neal and Belle, and the fact that she said never saw lumiere there, so she pass time there and never meet him? is not strange that someone put him there? The neclace explanation but never a kiss, i mean she kiss graham, hook, walsh and on his last breath neal doesnt deserve a kiss, the hook and neal scene, that made me think that maybe hook almost knew that neal was going to die, belle found the symbol to fast,unlike on the EF, the whole hook and neal talk about the message, that is didnt understand, how emma had time to explain all, and even when she saw neal she was like oh, there you are, no hug nothing, and the jail story is all forgiven no worry, then another thing that i dont understand, when neal meets her at the woods, it appears that she said that she lost rumple, after the monkey atack, but neal was on the hospital, how could rumple be on the forest, then WW stays aloen with the body in the middle of the woods, this seems like was lets get this done, we are tired of you, you are tired of us, lets film this so that we go seperate lives. And now lets buring him, and we all move on, henry will have 2 new dads , a new aunt/or uncle, a new adopt aunt, and new step brother and they will always be happy forever.
I would prefer if this was really decide between seasons, maybe, maybe not( they could have decided after making MRJ regular) also a quote from MRJ in which he says after 301, the would be very surprised if they turn neal in some wizard, no i wonder if the signs were there and they intended to do this a possible death that could be brought back, but for some reason they decided from one minute to another kill him for good, like maybe actor request.
Guess they can still bring Dylan to younger bae, but the myth is broken, i prefer that they dont bring Dylan and MRJ anymore, Dylan bc is getting to old to make 14, and would be painfull, MRJ, bc simply for what, he doesnt have anymore connections on this world for us to see the after emma to NY, during emma i think would be to stupid i in present day she has another person, unless is on Henry mind or dreams make them talk or see him, like a guardian angel to emma , henry and rumple, in their minds, i dont know, it doesnt make sense they kill character and then say that they intend to use the neal for fb, if they said bae, would be dylan, but they talk about MRJ, and even this season which is just lame. but i guess is waht the show is now, sorry about the ven i guess i now a stage 2 of loss, the anger part toward the show, and the writers and even until the actors that could have come and say something about the colleague, even when was his birthday no one said anything to MRJ, while with other actors they all send HB wishes, then the unfollow twiter ABC, great spoiling the death, they even unfollowed dylan.
I do think they will regret about killing neal, and you know what i hope so, and i hope ratings show that in a very low ones, so that haters stop saying that now the rating will raise bc there is no neal, from waht i saw online, many people are quiting, from several ships and parts of the fandom, even people saying that since monday people on bus and coffees and other public places talking about how they didnt like the episode and will stp watching.Bc people want to believe that we can get second chances and happy endings, and bae was like us, he symbol the casual viewer, and that breaks an audience, A/E may be on the edge of finding that in casual viewers neal was probably the most important character of the show, and i hope so, bc at least shows that theere was many people loving bae/neal.
Also a quick note, we are mourning the myth of show we spend time watching, Thank god we still have MRJ to see and talk about, not like glee that had to kill fin bc cory died, if other people dont understand is probably bc they never saw the symbol of the show and everything that surrounds Rumple and Bae story.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
after all, someone’s gotta come home to Em(ma) & Henry. (Perhaps that may turn out to be a dropped storyline, but no one will convince me ever that it was not intentional.)
Exactly.
What wouldn’t make sense: Mirroring other parts of the classic Oz story by making SB residents represent the classic characters, but NOT have a Dorothy-esque character returning home to a Henry and an Em(ma).
What would make sense: Having someone in Henry and Em(ma)’s family torn away from them, and have that person eventually find their way home.
What wouldn’t make sense: Showing contempt for their original characters and the overall message of the show, all of which they’ve spent 2.5 seasons developing, which is a LOT of work on their part.
What would make sense: Confirming their heroine as part of a TL couple, then tear them apart and make it seem impossible for them to be together, but then have their heroine find a way to drag her TL out of the pit of hell he’s been banished to.
What wouldn’t make sense: The kings of #nospoilers releasing a spoiler about a definite death of one of their main characters way in advance.
What would make sense: The kings of #nospoilers knowing that spoilers get out there no matter what, so they release this one so that when Neal appears 100% dead everyone assumes that was it, meaning that the actual 100% death in the finale remains unspoiled because they totally trolled the fandom.
Don’t misunderstand, I am slowly forging towards acceptance & am not putting stake in any crack theories. I have plenty though, it would be 0% difficult for the writers to undo this if they so choose. I don’t think that’s where they are going, but I think there is enough weirdness that door is not slammed shut.
Excellent way to explain my current mindset, yes.
I wanted to stop by and give a great big hug to everyone in this forum. I was prepared for some time now for the writers to kill Neal, but I’d held out hope they would write it with more grace and style.
Good to see you. We’ve been wondering how you were.
That isn’t the way it went down. Out of nowhere, Neal suddenly forgets all his scruples about magic, dark magic in particular, and is in a hot rush to resurrect his father, not because he loves him but because he wants to use the Dark Magic to get to his family. Then, he doesn’t care about the price, which does play as stupid even as Lumiere tries to say he’s just emotional and desperate.
It’s exactly what we’ve been saying—totally OOC
As Zelena herself says, it doesn’t matter anyway if they know who she is, and guess what? Without Neal blocking the dagger, Zelena actually gained an advantage as she has full control of the Dark One, all sane rather than bonkers.
Exactly!!! All of this was PLOT. Why didn’t Rumple throw the dagger to Belle? Why didn’t Emma call Regina when Neal collapsed and have her POOF to the forest and put Rumple/Neal into stasis? PLOT
Of course, that’s what happens when a weaker writer is given the helm, and that in itself tells me, because what episodes that writer had before, what the real purpose here was, and it wasn’t character development or telling a bold story.
The fact that Adam and Eddy couldn’t be bothered to write it themselves…but chose the weakest writer of the bunch…..*sigh*
Maybe in a few months I will stop by again, my excitement in the show renewed but it is going to take a lot and I really don’t think A&E have it in them to lure me back into their spell.
Yeah. I’m going to watch because I feel like I have to–not out of any real excitement.
And now that A&E have confirmed that plot and story is more important and is what is driving the episodes, I am less interested. If plot and story is more important then I suppose it makes sense to forget what your characters have said and done in past episodes and have your characters do things that are out of character to further your plot.
THIS
And of course I am upset over Neal’s death but had it been under different circumstances, stayed completely true to his character, I would have still been sad but would have been able to accept it.
YES. I have been TRYING to explain this to people. His death sucks, but under different less OOC circumstances, I would have accepted it. None of this random character assassination
Now I love Snowing but I also know that they are naive and like to see the good in everyone sometimes to a fault, but come on, Snow used to be a bandit?!? Does she not have any instincts left in her at all? Did being pregnant completely kill all her instincts and sense.
I *cannot* with the way they are turning Snow White into an idiot. Smart, kickbutt, robs men on the highway Snow…has been reduced to a simpering idiot who can’t tell when the baddie is looking her right in the fact
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Neal death just hit to close to home for me. This show was outlet for me and I don’t wished to seek an outlet for my outlet. Therefore, I have no desire to watch the show anymore, I’m going to either be bitter, angry, or sad. And if a show is doing that to me, there is no need for me to watch. I owe this show nothing and they owe me nothing but a good story. I don’t find this chapter of the story good because I was rooting for that kid I adored since desperate souls to get his happy ending, that little lost boy to find his home and family. And he never got it. So for the fans who are still enjoying the ride, I bid thee well and I hope they enjoy this progression. I hope that all their dreams, desires, and head canons come true and they are truly entertain to the end.
But for me I can not do that. I have to get off at cold dose reality. So for me, I rather watch something that perks my interest and excites me. There is nothing to look forward, everything is following a certain predictability. (So predictable that fans ping Neal as the death from the moment it was release.) But yeah I fell for the story they sold of happy endings, second chances, and hope. Just to watch it die before my eyes in such a contrive fashion with no rhyme nor reasons.
We all know how it will end, WW will be defeated, she related to someone one other than Regina. Another big bad will be introduce for Season 4. Hook gets to live Neal’s dream with Emma and Henry. Regina will get Robin Hood and Roland and Henry, Rumple will find comfort with Belle, Snowing will have their baby. All of them will get their Happy endings and second chances while Neal rots away in the grave.
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
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