Hook’s Hand?

[cherish]

@Midnight Dreary wrote:

^Yeah, once he became the Dartk One. You seem to think that he was evil before he became the Dark One. The show, the writers and the producers have made the point that he wasn’t. But you still seem to think that he was always evil, and that the curse isn’t effecting him. Even though it has been stated numerous times on the show and by the writers and producers that the curse is what’s making him evil.

But whatevz.

Yeah, I agree. I’m surprised this is even up for debate. I thought it was made explicitly clear that Rumpel used to be a good man, but the curse started eating away at his soul. That’s why Belle and Baelfire kept trying to break his curse. They new he was good man before he became the Dark One, and they wanted to bring that back. But it’s all just opinion. I guess it’s all a matter of whether you like the character or not.

Anyhoo, yeah Rumpel is probably the crocodile in this story. But I thought using the medalion would have been an interesting way for Rumpel to get revenge on Hook for seducing his wife.

[hjbau]

I didn’t say the curse isn’t effecting him. Only that it is not causing him to do these evil things. Having that sort of power is clearly effecting him. I mean he wouldn’t be able to do the sort of damage that he is doing now. That is the reason he didn’t do these things before the dark one curse because he didn’t have the power before. He was powerless.

I just think that he can be very normal as Rumpel. I mean he was very much the same with Bae after he become the dark one then before. At least to me he seemed the same. And he has had some very normal conversations with Charming as well. I mean he acts weird and quirky but otherwise seems to think the same. I do think the power has ruined him, made him evil, but i don’t think that comes from a place of innocence before the curse.

I actually do like the character. I just don’t think that he is good.

[Slurpeez]

One thing I admire on this forum is that whether we like or dislike certain characters, we all come to the table with different assessments. It’s all good. 🙂

I for one think a key point that Eddy and Adam have made repeatedly is that evil isn’t born, it’s made. I think it holds true for all of the characters, even the so-called “good” ones like Snow White. We saw how magic had the consequence of making her forget Charming and lose her heart. If it hadn’t been for Prince Charming’s intervention, she’d have become as dark as the woman whose life she’d have taken (Regina). Snow was a good person underneath, but even she as a little girl, betrayed Regina’s secret to Cora. We saw how Regina started life wanting nothing to do with magic, and yet, as a result of a mistake on Snow’s part and a huge evil on Cora’s, Regina became evil. Yet, even though she suffered, she still has the choice to turn away from her evil ways and start again, like her dad said she could in 2×2 (before she murdered him).

Similarly, Rumpel wasn’t always evil; he was desperate and made the wrong choice. Zoso made 3 things clear: he knew how to recognize a desperate soul, everybody has a choice, and magic always comes with a price. Rumpel said the same thing to Emma Swan about recognizing a desperate soul, so being desperate and being evil are hardly the same thing, but we all have the capacity to choose between right and wrong. I’m not saying pre-curse Rumpel didn’t have some desire for power, or the capacity to do wrong, because he clearly did, but I believe he was good at heart in wanting to save Baelfire and the thousands of other innocent children from an otherwise certain death. Did he become corrupted by power? Yes, of course. Were his actions evil? Undoubtably. I just think it was the power in the form of magic that corrupted him in the end. Yes, he killed Zoso before he became the Dark One, but I think it came from desperation. What pushed him over the top was that killing Zoso made Rumple as dark as the one he murdered (like he warned would happen to Snow if she killed Regina). That’s not an excuse, and what he did was wrong. Also, he isn’t excused from creating the dark curse just because he was trying to find Baelfire. Evil is evil. It does make for a great story though, because without Rumpel, there’d be no story at all, and nothing for Emma to battle. I think my main point is that every person has the capacity to choose right or wrong. Evil is still evil, but people are redeemable, and I hope Rumpel learns to make the right choices.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[PriceofMagic]

@hjbau wrote:

I didn’t say the curse isn’t effecting him. Only that it is not causing him to do these evil things. Having that sort of power is clearly effecting him. I mean he wouldn’t be able to do the sort of damage that he is doing now. That is the reason he didn’t do these things before the dark one curse because he didn’t have the power before. He was powerless.

I just think that he can be very normal as Rumpel. I mean he was very much the same with Bae after he become the dark one then before. At least to me he seemed the same. And he has had some very normal conversations with Charming as well. I mean he acts weird and quirky but otherwise seems to think the same. I do think the power has ruined him, made him evil, but i don’t think that comes from a place of innocence before the curse.

I actually do like the character. I just don’t think that he is good.

Bae noticed that Rumple was getting worse from the way he was before. However, that could be because Rumple made sure that Bae only ever saw the loving father side of him. Kind of like parents who make sure never to argue in front of the kids. THe dark one curse probably brought out the darker sides in Rumple’s personality that Bae had never witnessed before. Rumple was still capable of doing good as the dark one such as saving the children from the ogre wars but he also swiftly dealt with the soldiers who were going to take Bae away. Rumple can be very temperamental, he trashed his castle after Belle kissed him, he tried to stab the blue fairy with his dagger after he lost Baelfire, he got aggressive with Regina when she thought a horse’s heart would be enough for the curse and he stabbed Zoso when he pushed his buttons. So whilst I think Rumple was basically a good guy before he was cursed, I don’t think that the dark one curse is completely to blame for Rumple being like he is.
In Storybrooke, Rumple didn’t have any powers and yet people were afraid of him and this was before Emma came to town and he got his memory back. Granny gave him his money the moment he made his presence known and Henry said that he was worse than Regina.

What if Rumple trying to save his wife takes place before Bae was born hence why there’s the question of whether Bae is his son? His wife must have left early on in Bae’s childhood because Bae doesn’t seem to remember her only that Rumple said she was dead.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[surayya]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

Snow was a good person underneath, but even she as a little girl, betrayed Regina’s secret to Cora. We saw how Regina started life wanting nothing to do with magic, and yet, as a result of a mistake on Snow’s part and a huge evil on Cora’s, Regina became evil.

See I see that a little differently- I would never blame a child for giving up any secret to an adult who purposefully manipulated said child into doing so- that’s all on Cora for me.

Yes, Snow could have asked Regina 1st, but that’s hardly something a motherless, 10yr old, only child is going to do when they’ve never been manipulated by an adult before, esp if it happens to be a female figure who takes an interest in her & then basically starts spouting her (Snow’s) worst fares as their own!
Also Regina never told Snow her mother was a mean spirited (aka evil) person who would force her to marry her father no matter what- she only said they wouldn’t understand & that is what lead Snow to be manipulated into telling all to Cora. Even if Regina didn’t know how evil Cora was- how is that Snow’s fault???

I still think Regina blaming Snow instead of her mother is twisted- Snow didn’t kill Daniel, Cora did, Snow didn’t give up the secret to her own father, Cora manipulated it out of her, Snow didn’t arrange for Regina to marry her Father, Cora did. The only common denominator in EVERYTHING is Cora, which Regina is fully aware of & yet Regina still blames Snow.

I do agree with you about Rumple, I think he was just a coward before he became the Dark one & he only done that out of love/good intentions for his son. Also that the Dark ones curse tainted/spread though him, causing more & more of his bad side/character to come out while suppressing his good side- it was only his true love for Bae that stopped him from turning pure evil.

I still think he’s the biggest baddie on the block- he created the curse, he gave it to Regina to use (so he wouldn’t have to pay the price), he even told her how to enact it when she couldn’t get it started & so it was him that ultimately gave Regina the power she has over everyone- However despite it all I still think he is redeemable, he just drives me NUTS!!!!! by constantly make the wrong choices for the right reasons (in his mind) lol 😉

[lostuponatime]

Ok – don’t mean to burst any bubbles here but for those hoping to catch a glimpse of young Peter … I don’t think it’s going to happen.

Here’s why:

When we first meet Belle, we meet someone that has a story only vaguely like the Disney film we know and love. In fact, her story is significantly different than any that we are familiar with. Moreover, her “beast” isn’t the hairy buffalo/bear/muskox man we’ve come to know and love, but The Dark One himself! As creators and head storyteller “Kitswitz” seems to be taking a little liberty with the storytelling – and that’s awesome in my book.

However, because of their track record win changing/merging stories, I’m going to go out on a limb NFC say that because the overall assumption is that Rumple takes the hand from Hook and throws it to a “crocodile”, we will not necessarily see Master Pan. Why? Because it was Peter who caught off Hook’s hand and threw it to the crocodile. And he liked the taste of him so much he’s been following him ever since! (Or so the story goes…)

If Rumple takes the hand … And evidently may even keep the hand … I’m gonna say no Pan. And as Kitswitz’s track record on naming episodes goes – that there’s something more than just the surface level interpretation to the titles (don’t even get me started on last weeks Lady of the lake), then I’m going to say that there is also no crocodile. He will also be metaphorical for, say perhaps Mr. Stiltskin … Dearie.

[Phee]

Rumple will be the “crocodile”, I’ve thought that ever since they released the ep title. He looks reptilian, so he’s the one who took Hook’s hand and became known as “The Crocodile” because of his appearance.

There isn’t likely to be any Peter Pan in this ep, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be in the future, because if Hook is gonna be a major character, they’ll delve into his history in Neverland in future eps, and that’s where Peter will fit in. I haven’t given up on the theory that Bae became Peter for a while. Rumple’s storyline is entwined with Hook’s, so it’d fit for Bae to have been Peter. Kitswitz have said time and again that Peter Pan is one of their fave stories, so I’d be very surprised if we never see Peter himself, and have him be someone significant.

[surayya]

Agree with Phee- If we see Pan in will be in Flash backs (or sideways) as it leaves the character open to introduce later (whether it be S2,3 or 10 😉 ).
I’m picking we may see a young Pan in say a flash back & we find out he was somehow banished from FTL/Neverland or became stuck in Our world, so current Pan will be at the very least late teenage stage if not an adult. That would also leave the door open for another mystery man as well 😆

[Author]

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