Initial reactions.

[rbmom]

@Princess wrote:

Ok…have to rethink my logic here and bet 2kfl 138 is a reference to Peter Pan…

I agree. One interpretation of 2KFL 138 as a vanity plate is “took flight”

[Nobody]

I am pretty sure if I typed my initial reaction I would get banned from the site for cussing like a sailor. Needless to say, I am not happy Belle lost her memory. I hope she can get it back. I love her and Rumple.

[antbee]

@warhorse78 wrote:

Just curious. Has it ever been revealed where Emma and August came through via the magical tree? What state?

I think Maine because they didn’t have to travel that far on his bike to get to the tree in the episode where he tries to prove to her that she’s the Savior.

Here I was thinking Cora might have taken HOOKs heart so that he could go up against Gold.

That would have been a nice twist which could still happen. I know that Hook maybe a little bit tired of being everyone’s punching bag, but I did think he gave up a little too easy when he was asking Rumple to kill him. Although I did like the sentiment that he wanted to die because he’d be reunited with Milah, his true love.

(Secret Confession: If it weren’t for the terrible things that Hook has done to Belle, I wouldn’t mind a triangle between Rumple, Belle without her memories, and Hook. I think that Belle and Hook have chemistry not as much as he and Regina did, but more than he and Emma ever did, and if she’s still “Belle” in that she’s naive/innocent/eternally optimistic or whatever you want to call it even without her memories, she could try to change Hook for the better. However, I couldn’t do that to Belle because of everything that he’s done to her even if she didn’t remember he did those things.

Of course, assuming Neal is Baelfire, if it meant that Neal and Hook could become friendly since Hook would be in a different triangle, I might not be too averse to a Rumple/Belle without her memories/Hook triangle because I really want to see Hook and Neal interact and not as the cliche romantic rivals. I think part of Hook would hate Bae because of who his father is, and he might irrationally blame Bae somewhat for Milah’s death. On the other hand, he couldn’t part with Bae’s shawl because Milah made it, so I think that part of Hook would win out when it came to Bae. While I love to see Hook when he is in villain mode, I also think that it would help give him much needed depth if he in were in scenes with someone else where he didn’t try to “charm” them and he didn’t harm or try to harm the other person, and the other person didn’t end up using him as a punching bag at the end. Not saying that scenes with Nealfire would be like that because he could try to harm Nealfire or vice versa, but they could try to build up some kind of relationship there. Maybe they would both be using each other in that they would both want to inflict pain on Rumple, but at least it would be a nice change of pace from the pattern that Hook has going on now where it’s flirt shamelessly, harm/bully someone else, and end up in serious physical pain.)

As for the episode, some things I really loved, but overall I didn’t love the episode.

I loved that they showed Belle having book smarts and how it picked up from when she saw Grumpy in “Dreamy”. I loved that the characters finally addressed the issue of going home to the Enchanted Forest by saying that while modern conveniences might be nice, it’s not their home. I loved the great twist at the end.

However, I didn’t love how quickly Archie’s “death” was resolved. Not that I wanted them to drag it out for a really long time, but I think it would have made more of an impact if it wasn’t resolved in the very next episode to give Regina time to really think things were hopeless. Also, what took Archie so long to get to the Charmings other than just the writers trying to be all dramatic. I also agree with EvilQueen that the actors in that scene were all flat, so it didn’t have as much impact as it should have had, and the flip-flopping of Henry was really bizarre too. Maybe if we had seen more moments of him struggling to believe that Regina really killed Archie, the flip-flopping at the end would have made sense.

Speaking of dragging things out and missed opportunities, now it seems like we’ll never get any closure on the Archie, Marco, and Blue Fairy wardrobe debacle since Eion Bailey will be leaving soon, and they haven’t even mentioned August/Pinocchio at all since “Lady of the Lake”. August isn’t one of my favorite characters especially after “Tallahassee”, but it’s just ridiculous how the show dropped the ball on that story line.

I also hated how Cora wasn’t seen in this episode. I understand that Barbara Hershey’s time might be limited, but couldn’t they have come up with something better than just having her conveniently not around Hook’s ship when Belle goes aboard. Likewise, where was Hook’s crew?

[playarita]

The characters:
Belle: I loved that they finally gave glimpses into her intelligence that goes beyond “book smart” but that she seems to be a good strategist as well or in the very least had she been given training to become a warrior I think that she would have definitely honed her skills. After her rather silly attempt of meeting the Yaoguai I am glad that we see her strategy ability when she lures the Yaoguai into the courtyard.

Hook: I cannot imagine that a pirate who has been a pirate for centuries is going to be possible. Not when he was successfully captaining his ship and had the respect of his men. If he was not a good fighter I do not think that would be possible. As others have pointed out I do think his “rotten” heart is not due to being evil but out of heartbreak. His heartbreak is over losing Milah.

Rumple: He still has his issues of his insecurity regarding his image as a coward. It is a driving force in his lust for power, anger and revenge. What he did to Smee I feel is a step back to the Dark One and I hope that is not a sign of things to come. Though my gut tells me that if anything Rumple might definitely tap into his dark side–only hope he does not lose the last shred of his humanity.

Snow: I am glad she stood up for what she wanted. She made good points as to why she wanted to stay. I think it goes beyond not wanting to fight anymore which seems to be something she knows will happen in the Enchanted Forest–if they go back then they have to risk dealing with people like Regina–who I assume would want to go back because she is powerful there. Anyways I think she wants to stay for Emma and Henry. This world is the only place that Emma has ever known even if the Enchanted Forest changes with the societal dynamics these people have learned they are still going to live a way of life that is very different–no modern amenities and the like. As much as Henry loves fairy tales etc it is vastly different to reading them and actually living them. If he goes back he might realize how unprepared he is for that world–and if Emma does not want to return he would likely stay with her.

Henry: I was annoyed with his “I knew it” because with the way he was grieving I don’t really think that he did know. I wonder if his proclamation was more his way of reassuring himself that Regina does want to make a change and that like Rumple might still have some goodness in her that needs to be loved and nurtured.

Some possible theories:
1. This seems to show that losing one’s true love (at the hands of another in a vicious way–murder, etc) seems to send some into sheer anguish where they are self destructive or evil.
Example: Hook seems to be in complete self-destructive mode where he wants to die–in the same way either poetic or something more to it–to meet Milah.
Example: Regina–though unsure if the creators will redeem her, I suspect Cora might have lost her true love or was betrayed and her lust for power and her hubris is due to her not wanting to be weak or vulnerable again.

2. I definitely get Peter Pan vibes regarding Baelfire. Hook mentions about how Bae might not want to be found. He might have meant it as simply offering a different perspective but it felt as if he said it because he had met Bae before. Now the question is if Bae is still alive or who might Bae might be and Neal’s possible connection–either as a descendent or Bae himself–and how Emma plays into the story (as Wendy).

3. If fairy dust (or good magic) can lift a curse then something that once has been done cannot be done–can in fact be undone. I suspect that is the case but I think the fairies keep that under wraps so that they don’t have people trying to steal fairy dust.

4. I love the idea that Hook might have placed a curse on his heart where if Rumple takes it he faces the same fate as Hook. Perhaps that is a test of sorts–a way of showing Belle that Rumple was “evil” to the bitter end.

5. About Frankenstein maybe the key is not only the magical heart but that it has to be a willing sacrificial heart from someone who allows the heart to be used to resurrect another person.

What I want to see:
1. I want to see if one loses their true love in a way other than their meeting death if the same can occur (turning evil, self destructive etc).

2. There is a lot of emphasis on the power of true love. I would love it explored on whether or not one can have more than one true love–something I would love to see or know is whether or not one can find a new one–and how that might be–i.e. age, experience etc.

3. I definitely want to see a lot more exploration of the fact that now that the curse is broken we are going to see a town divided on either returning to Storybrooke or trying to go back to the enchanted forest. Though I suspect that it is going to cause derision among “couples” that extend more than Snow and Charming but Nova and Grumpy since if Nova goes back she might have to go back to being a fairy out of a sense of duty.

4. What Rumple will do with Belle. I know he is going to try and lift the curse so that Belle will be able to remember again. I suspect that he will use Sneezy and Smee as experiments. He created a talisman to cross the border I think he should be able to create a potion to return her memories

5. That said will Rumple try and woo Belle again (whoever her counterpart is) but with her being a person of this world she might be unable to “love” him the way Belle had unless her spirit who she was in Fairytale Land still exists deep down.

Edit: formatting errors

[playarita]

@AntBee wrote:

I also hated how Cora wasn’t seen in this episode. I understand that Barbara Hershey’s time might be limited, but couldn’t they have come up with something better than just having her conveniently not around Hook’s ship when Belle goes aboard. Likewise, where was Hook’s crew?

That actually bugged me as well. How is it that Hook happened to drop a nautical knot for Belle to decipher. He must have been told by Cora that Belle was very intelligent. By using that against Belle he lured her onto the ship. I think his goal or hope was that upon learning how Rumple had killed Milah that Belle would turn against Rumple. That would definitely cause heartbreak in Rumple’s case. I think Hook wanted to relish in prolonging the heartbreak where Rumple would have to see Belle hate him which is something that would kill him.

Hook shooting Belle–though not fatally–and having her cross the line was his way bringing heartbreak in a different way one where Rumple has to see the consequence of his Dark One ways and the pain that comes along with it.

Though if Hook does turn out to be a villain through and through he will may eventually try and kill Belle once and for all–possibly ripping her heart out in the same way that Milah died. That would cause Rumple to become blind with rage and go after Hook once and for all. I wonder if Hook might wait until Baelfire (assuming he is alive) is in Storybrooke where he will learn of his mother’s fate and see that Rumple is still the “coward” he knew as a child…

That would cause Rumple to not only lose his true love but his son as well…

[wizard55]

I agree that I can’t believe hook just took the beating and didn’t even fight back. And I also agree with that Emma not really reacting to Cora being back in town. Also, you think rumple would be a lot more shocked that hook is in town asking how he got here excetera but he just kinda hears some of the bet bad cell reception and then just….idk…. just the whole scene or 2 was written kinda weird to me. I really did like this episode regardless and I can’t wait to find out more about the outsider. 🙂 🙂

[an empty heart]

This. Freaking. Episode. I can barely put into words how I feel about it. Just know that I loved it and Belle was awesome in it.

And the ending…NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

[Phee]

Claude! We hardly knew ye, but congrats on getting some back story. 😉

Liked the disagreement between the Charmings and am looking forward to seeing how they resolve it. Also liked Snow’s little mention of how she’d imagined a bigger house, “with turrets.” 😉

For all the spoilers I’d read, I did NOT see the part with Philip coming. Was a cool little twist, and I’m glad we got to see how he and Mulan met, because they always seemed like a really random pairing, but now it makes sense.

@Elle wrote:

I really did love how smart Belle was, but I also thought that she was a little too eager–particularly her storyline in Fariytale Land. The way she approaches the cave with a dagger to kill the demon, all my herself, with no real plan was really silly.

Dude, for real! Good on her for having a go, but seriously, you’re gonna go face a demonic beast while only holding a freakin’ letter opener? 😆 Other than that, I liked what they did with her this ep, having her using her knowledge and wits as she went seeking her adventure.

One other random Belle observation…whoever in FTL made her Wonderbra, I’d like to put in an order for one plz.

@Rbmom wrote:

@Princess wrote:

Ok…have to rethink my logic here and bet 2kfl 138 is a reference to Peter Pan…

I agree. One interpretation of 2KFL 138 as a vanity plate is “took flight”

Good thinking! There have also been theories that he could be the Wizard of Oz, who is another character who “took flight”. I’m more inclined to the Peter theory though, (even though part of me would still love Bae to be Peter).

@AntBee wrote:

I think part of Hook would hate Bae because of who his father is, and he might irrationally blame Bae somewhat for Milah’s death. On the other hand, he couldn’t part with Bae’s shawl because Milah made it, so I think that part of Hook would win out when it came to Bae. While I love to see Hook when he is in villain mode, I also think that it would help give him much needed depth if he in were in scenes with someone else where he didn’t try to “charm” them and he didn’t harm or try to harm the other person, and the other person didn’t end up using him as a punching bag at the end. Not saying that scenes with Nealfire would be like that because he could try to harm Nealfire or vice versa, but they could try to build up some kind of relationship there. Maybe they would both be using each other in that they would both want to inflict pain on Rumple, but at least it would be a nice change of pace from the pattern that Hook has going on now where it’s flirt shamelessly, harm/bully someone else, and end up in serious physical pain.)

Really eager to see how Hook would relate to Bae, (assuming he’s Neal and will likely be turning up in SB at some point). Having had it confirmed that Hook is still very much attached to the memory of Milah, it’ll be fascinating to see how he’d interact with her son. Hope it happens because as you say, it’d be an opportunity for them to give some depth to Hook.

However, I didn’t love how quickly Archie’s “death” was resolved. Not that I wanted them to drag it out for a really long time, but I think it would have made more of an impact if it wasn’t resolved in the very next episode to give Regina time to really think things were hopeless. Also, what took Archie so long to get to the Charmings other than just the writers trying to be all dramatic. I also agree with EvilQueen that the actors in that scene were all flat, so it didn’t have as much impact as it should have had, and the flip-flopping of Henry was really bizarre too. Maybe if we had seen more moments of him struggling to believe that Regina really killed Archie, the flip-flopping at the end would have made sense.

Yes, I was hoping he’d be missing for a few eps, so it was a bit of a bummer to have him set free so soon. And I agree with those who didn’t think the scene with him, Emma and Henry really rang true. For a moment there I was expecting Emma to be all, “Step away from him Henry, we don’t know for sure that it’s even Archie,” though I guess the fact that Pongo was happy to see him was a relatively good indicator he was legit. A bit more confusion and shock would have improved that scene a lot.

Speaking of dragging things out and missed opportunities, now it seems like we’ll never get any closure on the Archie, Marco, and Blue Fairy wardrobe debacle since Eion Bailey will be leaving soon, and they haven’t even mentioned August/Pinocchio at all since “Lady of the Lake”. August isn’t one of my favorite characters especially after “Tallahassee”, but it’s just ridiculous how the show dropped the ball on that story line.

Has there been any word about Eion’s other show being picked up? Even if so, I’d like to think that they could schedule him to come back for an ep here and there so they can wrap up Pinocchio’s storylines. Hadn’t really expected to see him again yet though, because I figured he wouldn’t be back until Neal is.

I also hated how Cora wasn’t seen in this episode. I understand that Barbara Hershey’s time might be limited, but couldn’t they have come up with something better than just having her conveniently not around Hook’s ship when Belle goes aboard. Likewise, where was Hook’s crew?

Guess she was out and about, spying on Regina, instead of hanging around the boat? She’s a proactive one, that Cora. Not one to sit on her arse and wait for stuff to happen. As for Hook’s crew, I wasn’t really expecting them to be there. Smee got sucked into the curse, so I could buy that anyone else in the crew was outside the bubble too. I got the impression that Hook and Cora were the only ones on the boat when it sailed into SB.

@playarita wrote:

5. That said will Rumple try and woo Belle again (whoever her counterpart is) but with her being a person of this world she might be unable to “love” him the way Belle had unless her spirit who she was in Fairytale Land still exists deep down.

Can’t wait to see how Rumbelle progresses (or not) now. Surely they’ll get it together eventually, and he’ll figure out how to get her memories back, but in the meantime it’ll be interesting to see how she reacts to him. I mean, if she’s gotta ask people around her who the strange man is, it’s not like they’re gonna paint a pretty picture for her.

@wizard55 wrote:

I agree that I can’t believe hook just took the beating and didn’t even fight back.

Perhaps he felt he deserved it, for not having been able to protect Milah? If he’s been beating himself up emotionally for it for a couple of centuries, then taking the physical pain for it too might be some sort of release for him. There’s a whole lotta pain in that scene coming from both men, and both of their suffering is connected to the one woman. It’s heartbreaking, powerful stuff. Robert and Colin both rocked this ep!

[antbee]

@Phee wrote:

Claude! We hardly knew ye, but congrats on getting some back story. 😉

Ha, how could I forget Claude. That was another thing that I loved.

@Phee wrote:

One other random Belle observation…whoever in FTL made her Wonderbra, I’d like to put in an order for one plz.

Yes, it’s too bad Rumple hasn’t got to see her in her kickbutt outfit yet.

@Phee wrote:

Has there been any word about Eion’s other show being picked up? Even if so, I’d like to think that they could schedule him to come back for an ep here and there so they can wrap up Pinocchio’s storylines. Hadn’t really expected to see him again yet though, because I figured he wouldn’t be back until Neal is.

Well I’m sure he’ll be back on, but it just seems like this show can really drop the ball. Sometimes they can get it just perfect like the ending of last night’s episode or breaking the curse the first season, but then other times, they just let important things go for several episodes and then just have one of the characters address it verbally to give closure to fans and that just frustrates me to no end. Like last year, we finally find out why Regina didn’t try to kill Emma during the season because they just give Gold one line near the end of the season about how if Emma dies then the Curse breaks. Or how we found out when Gold told Regina that information that she had also pieced together that Emma was the Savior, when it was ambiguous during the first few episodes and not addressed again.

It would have made more sense and have more impact later if we got to see more reminders of Geppetto’s search for Pinocchio instead of way back in episode 3 and whenever they decide to finally reunite Gepetto and Pinocchio, and hints that they’re not just going to drop the whole wardrobe debacle. It would have also been nice to have some callbacks to the Sheriff whose name will not be spoken since he died just recently died by Regina’s hands too at least a pan over to his grave or something.

Guess she was out and about, spying on Regina, instead of hanging around the boat? She’s a proactive one, that Cora. Not one to sit on her arse and wait for stuff to happen. As for Hook’s crew, I wasn’t really expecting them to be there. Smee got sucked into the curse, so I could buy that anyone else in the crew was outside the bubble too. I got the impression that Hook and Cora were the only ones on the boat when it sailed into SB.

I mean I can fanwank it that Cora and Hook were probably so overconfident that no one would ever find Hook’s ship that they didn’t put any protections spells on it, but I wish I didn’t have to do that. I know evil has to make dumb mistakes because of evil’s overconfidence like how good always makes the same mistake of letting an evil character go only for that character to come back and cause more havoc. However, again, I think it would have been better if they waited before Belle rescued Archie so soon after he was kidnapped, so we got to see Cora and Hook spying on the town, and see them become overconfident that they had everyone fooled. Then, Belle could rescue Archie.

@Phee wrote:

Can’t wait to see how Rumbelle progresses (or not) now. Surely they’ll get it together eventually, and he’ll figure out how to get her memories back, but in the meantime it’ll be interesting to see how she reacts to him. I mean, if she’s gotta ask people around her who the strange man is, it’s not like they’re gonna paint a pretty picture for her.

Yes, while it won’t be easy for either party, this actually might be Rumple’s best chance to actually work on bettering himself if he really is sincere in doing so. Old Belle might have been able to forgive Rumple slipping up, but current Belle probably won’t be so forgiving to him.

@Phee wrote:

Robert and Colin both rocked this ep!

Definitely! It’s nice to have them utilize Hook in such a way instead of him just doing his usual shtick.

[bfilipe]

Who is Ethan that you say crossed the town line in the car? :/

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