December 8, 2014 at 3:19 am #292404TheGoldenKeyParticipant
Throughout the seasons we’ve come to know the main characters quite well. Season 1 explained so much about Rumple and what motivated him: Baelfire.
They are trying their best to make us forget about this very important factor. A few things that I just can’t buy into are:
1) When Emma told Rumple, in SB past, that Baefire doesn’t survive, he simple accepted it and drank a potion to make him forget what she said. Come on, knowing what we know about Rumple, that finding his son was the only thing that motivated him, why would he do this? The man would have moved heaven and earth to make sure future circumstances & outcomes were changed or he would never have pursued the Dark Curse so that his son at least had a chance for life & happiness.
2) Towards the end of the first arc, in S3, we see Rumple sacrifice his life to save his son and SB. We later see him standing over Neal’s grave and pledging an oath to be a better man. Um, what the heck happened to that?
3) He is now using the hat to trap all magic beings so he can finally be released from the dagger’s hold. So, I get that he can’t take Emma or Elsa because of his promise to Ingrid, but why didn’t he try to trap Reggie in the hat? Doesn’t make sense that he would pass up all that magic & power. Yet, he never pursued trapping her.
4) OUATW showed us that the rules of magic have changed and that some, like Anastasia, can be brought back to life. So why is he not using the hat, the thing that possesses the greatest power/magic of all, to try to bring back his son? Baefire was the most important thing to him, more important than even Belle or his power. It just isn’t making any sense to me. Nor is the fact that if the Sorcerer’s Apprentice was able to send Ingrid into the real world, why couldn’t Rumple have figured that one out and traded off the hat for the same opportunity, back when he had the chance to do so?
He’s told his son dies and he accepts it and drinks that potion to forget. He pledges an oath at this son’s gravesite that he’ll try to be a better man. Now we see him so easily seduced by the hat and we are to forget what truly mattered to him his entire life? That being Bae/Neal?
Ya, his storyline just isn’t working for me and falls short of everything we’ve come to know about the man. If we the fans know this about Rumple, how could the creators and writers forget what’s at the core of our favourite antagonist?[adrotate group="5"]
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.December 8, 2014 at 5:24 am #292407SlurpeezParticipant
Everything you wrote I agree with. For me, the heart of Rumple was always his son, and the heart of the show was always that parental love that made Rumple cast the dark curse to find him. Without Bae, I fear the heart of the show is missing, as is Rumple’s redemptive quality. Now he’s just another power-hungry villain out to take over the world. But that’s so boring, and a crying shame. Rumple can try and have everything, but we know he’s not going to get what he wants, because he can’t have unlimited dark magic and real love. It’s going to have to be one or the other.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal CassidyDecember 8, 2014 at 6:39 am #292409PheeParticipant
My attitude towards Rumple right now can be summed up in one gif, which I have to link to because language.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1kzh3HakI1qa6lp8.gifDecember 8, 2014 at 8:21 am #292419RumplesGirlKeymaster
My attitude towards Rumple right now can be summed up in one gif, which I have to link to because language. http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1kzh3HakI1qa6lp8.gif
Basically this. I have no idea what he is doing anymore. Just none. His motivations make no sense because there aren’t any. World domination? Since when???"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"December 8, 2014 at 9:22 am #292431KebParticipant
I agree…and I had a whole bunch written here and lost it.
But basically, his taking that potion was the most OOC thing to ever happen in this show, and that’s including everything that happened in Quiet Minds (which was pretty OOC for both Neal & Rumple). His only investment in Emma’s future was her promise that Bae forgives him…and a man who spent centuries changing things so that he could get to Bae in the first place would trust himself to find a way to fix everything else.
Meanwhile, S4 Rumple’s compassionate side has been almost entirely invisible. We saw it in 401 and then it vanished into cut-scene world. We have zero reason to root for him because his motives (beyond Ultimate Power and the more understandable freedom from the dagger) are not even hinted at–it took four episodes before his desire for the hat made one bit of sense. They’ve done this with Rumple before–in S1, it took a long time before we could see any of his plans, but then we were right there with Emma trying to untangle whose side he was on, and it felt consistent even then.
Now it doesn’t feel consistent at all; even at the height of his powers, Rumple never wanted world domination in FTL. He was content to have his lonely little castle and make his deals and spin his straw–he had power and wealth and a goal, and he could leave the rest of the world alone as long as they weren’t pestering him or furthering his way to his son. What made us love him is that underneath, he just wanted love and his family. What made it possible to forgive him time and again was that he almost always gave his victims a choice, even when he knew what choice they’d make, and when he didn’t–it was clear that his lashing out was due to his own self-loathing. It all came back to his heart and his son.
Now, the few scenes where we see him loving his wife and grandson are cut, and instead we get shown how he’s willing to hurt the adorable puppy pirate and his sweet (but prickly) girlfriend…to…do what? We aren’t being reminded of how much Zelena hurt him, so even his desire to be free of the dagger (which makes sense in context of the series as a whole, but not S4) falls flat. We aren’t seeing how he could have a better life outside of Storybrooke, so his desire to leave with Belle & Henry (even to escape DQ’s curse, which is now no longer a threat) doesn’t make sense. Maybe nobody likes him, but they like his wife and grandson and the rulers of the town named their son after his son. He has a chance to be comfortable and happy there with Belle…and he doesn’t want that why?
I think it’s hard for the creators to realize just how unsympathetic they’ve made Rumple this season. In their heads, they’ve got all the backstory AND all the scenes they’ve written, filmed, and cut only at the last minute. In their heads, Rumple shows love for Belle (who appreciates it) by encouraging her to pursue her librarian career. In their heads, Rumple spends time talking to Henry about memories and pain. These aren’t just headcanons–they published these scenes after they were nearly included in the episodes. But if you don’t watch anything but what airs, there’s almost NO compassion or love being shown from Rumple.
His horrified reaction at Hook’s accusation that he’d let Henry be condemned with the rest of the town doesn’t make sense because all we got of his relationship with his grandson is two short scenes–operation mongoose and the furniture polish. There’s no love shown there and it doesn’t establish a relationship that overcomes what he’s willing to do to Henry’s family in the same scene. It matches my headcanon of how he’s always felt about Henry, but we’re not seeing it in the show and especially not in this arc where it seems to matter.
(On the note of cut scenes, aside from the fact that the majority they’ve shown us have been about half of Belle’s screen time hitting the cutting room floor, we’re not seeing Belle’s motivations either–or some of Hook’s that I think may become important soon. Why is Belle so devoted to him? Who knows! But I’m quite sure they cut a bit where she gives him the dagger in 409 because Hook’s assertion that Belle truly loves Rumple seems to come from that action…all we get is a hug. What? And then he’s got a dagger in front of her and it doesn’t make sense. Are they so desperate to cut all of Emilie’s scenes?)
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharingDecember 8, 2014 at 10:06 am #292435KebParticipant
I think also we’re meant to see Rumple and Hook through the other character right now. Both of them have been filling in for us the side that’s been mostly absent this season: Rumple pointed out Hook’s dark side when they were playing blackmail games (which Hook started, to be fair), and Hook is desperately trying to bring out Rumple’s good side in time to survive or at least protect Emma.
It’s a fascinating dynamic and I think it would be all the richer if we actually saw any sign that Hook still has a dark side beyond Rumple’s influence or any sign that Rumple still has a good side at all. But those scenes are hitting the cutting room floor or being hidden as tiny one-note bits (Rumple bringing Belle flowers, Hook telling David at the ice wall that what he’d do is trap everyone and then kill them one by one). What we’re actually being shown is Wooby Adorable Pirate vs Nasty Lying Villain, so we have to grasp at the gold straws like Anna to work out anything that makes sense.
Still, the idea of looking at Rumple through Hook and vice versa DOES have rich possibilities for understanding the characters better. I think right now they are both seeing an uncomfortable reflection of themselves in their longstanding enemy, though we’re hearing more of it from Hook. Hook seems to recognize that at least some of what Rumple’s doing, he’s done similarly–like when he condemned Eric by making BB walk the plank so he could get his ship. And I think Rumple is treating his puppet with slightly more compassion than we saw the last few times he tried to kill Hook (veeeeeeeeeery slightly, but I see it). Like, when Hook asks that Rumple spare Emma & Storybrooke…he actually does give Hook a half-reassurance. He gives Hook a chance to say his goodbyes. It’s not exactly kindness but he’s not being as cruel as he could be (and might even feel justified in being given their history).
Both of them recognize that while Rumple’s enjoying the fact that he gets to have some vengeance mixed in with his purpose, he’s not just toying with and killing Hook for fun–he’s got a goal (freedom from that dagger) that makes sense to both of them. (That goal at least makes sense…it’s the “world domination,” which I’m putting in scare quotes because I’m holding out hope there’s a better explanation, that doesn’t.) I think that recognition is why Hook’s pleas to Rumple’s better half have nothing to do with himself. He knows he’d do the same thing if he were in Rumple’s place.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharingDecember 8, 2014 at 10:24 am #292438opera13Participant
I think (hope) Rumple has a motivation we haven’t seen yet. The writing on this show is often flawed (See Rumple drinking the memory potion), but it’s not THIS flawed. Remember, who actually said he wanted to take over the world? Dairy Queen. What does she know? Last night Rumple didn’t say he was going to take over the world, he said the world had better not get in his way. He wants something (find a way to resurrect Baelfire? Something else?) but I don’t think it’s world domination. Also, he might steal Belle and Henry’s memories to get them out of town, but they’re gonna notice and object to a little world domination unless he rewrites their personalities. As for wanting to cleave himself from the dagger, any sane character would want that. It’s his methods that are frightening, but the motivation is perfectly rational.
So I’m playing Devil’s Advocate for now. There’s something we don’t know. But I agree we needed those cut scenes.December 8, 2014 at 10:32 am #292442WickedRegalParticipant
Rumple is a victim of Character Assassination…that’s just about it.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn BalorDecember 8, 2014 at 2:52 pm #292489JosephineParticipant
*raises hand at being confused*
Sometimes I think they’re out to sabotage to their own show. They have a character that has perennially been a fan favorite and they’re ruining him. Even going back to to Season One there has always been reasons and rationalizations over Rumple’s behavior. We might not have agreed with or thought they were moral, but there were reasons. Now he just wants to take over the world? I don’t buy it! He was the most powerful wizard in the EF and he kept to himself in his castle, making deals when it suited his purpose and twisting desperate souls who sought his power in his favor. He had no desire to rule all. But now he does?
And being imprisoned by Zelena isn’t enough reason for him to go psycho. Belle’s mother was killed and then she taken by an evil wizard as payment for saving her town immediately after. Then she was kidnapped by an evil queen. She was imprisoned in the EF for years, YEARS, and then in an asylum for 28 years where time stood still. She had months of being cognizant of time moving in Storybrooke with no signficant interaction. This girl has the most reason of any of them to go pyscho on the town. Rumple needs to stand in line behind his wife because if anyone has the rights to go postal on that town, she has first dibs on it.
I know Bobby loves playing evil better and I think Adam and Eddy don’t know how to deal with his character any other way. So let’s make him evil again. But it’s not realistic. Yes, this is a fantasy but we have to have some foot in reality.
Personally, I think it’s way past time for Rumple to shed his curse. But then I thought that last year. They don’t realize that seeing Rumple struggle with being mortal is much more compelling television. So much stuff for mining in that story line,
Just looking at Tumblr and Twitter we’re not the only ones who are confused. Seems like a lot of people are having difficulty with this story line.
Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.December 8, 2014 at 3:35 pm #292498PriceofMagicParticipant
Rumple and Hook have turned into Pinky and the Brain
All magic comes with a price!Keeper of Felix
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