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We haven’t decided how we’re handling it yet. But all conversations here at the forums are open so long as they abide by our rules.
No offense, but why not handle it like you’d handle any other piece of material on the show? (This is purely a rhetorical question, btw, so feel free to ignore it). I mean this season pretty much takes place in hell so…
Sadly, this isn’t *my* podcast. Daniel and I have had many (maaaaaaaaany) discussions on this (and I am of a very different bent than he is) and we’re working on it. I assure you all…we’re working on a way to make this graceful and considerate (doesn’t help that he’s half a country away at the moment)
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"A bit late to the party, but it took me this long to gather my thoughts and pin down exactly what bothered me the most, and i finally figured it out – it was the lack of respect in representing a story for the LGBT community. Firstly, I would like to state that I am the very proud mother of a beautiful, smart and extremely talented bisexual daughter who i find perfect exactly as she is! and my BFF is gay (& I wouldn’t trade him for the world & am very lucky to have him in my life!) – so I know TL comes in so many forms and LGBT love & loving relationships are normal and beautiful.
RG, PriceofMagic and Phee pretty much conveyed many of the points and thoughts I had – kudos ladies. Nevertheless, I felt that at the end of the day, the point missing was that A&E did not respect the community enough to actually develop a love story just as they would have with any heterosexual couple (aside from the “I just met you, and this is crazy” yadda yadda). I totally get that Mulan is a Disney property and in the Disney-verse her arc is completed with her marriage to General Li Shang where they live happily every after (see Mulan II). So yeah, while in OUAT her sexuality has been ambiguous in the Disney-verse it’s set in stone (now with Meridad – there’s flexibility, but that’s another story). I am also on board with the “gay” associations that have been implied with Dorothy (i.e. friend of Dorothy, rainbows, etc.) I also get that Ruby is neutral as far as her story book history. BUT, the problem is that at no point in OUAT, has there ever been a hint that Ruby wasn’t straight. She had a boyfriend (granted she ate him lol), she had a relationship with Gus, flirted with Will, was hinted at as being the “town floozy” and prior to this season, last we saw we were hinted a FrankenWolf potential relationship — so up till now – not 1 clue that she was anything but straight! One does not wake up one morning and say – hey, I’ve decided I’m a lesbian or I’m bi. You are or you aren’t – it’s part of you! Through hints in the interwebs, the idea that Ruby was the “chosen one” for the LGBT relationship was almost a given. Nevertheless, at no point, did they (i.e. the writers) even imply that her search for her pack meant that she was on a personal sexual discovery path. At least they could have had 1 scene in which Mulan & Ruby have a talk whereby we as the audience are clued in as to what was really missing in Ruby’s life – this would have been epic, showing and paralleling how in real life self discovery and coming out happens. Instead what we are given is a half-hearten attempt at love at first sight passing itself off as TL, where it’s actually, at the most, Ruby being sexually curious and poor Mulan once again being the 3rd wheel. Bad form A&E. The LGBT community deserved better.
The gender neutral pronouns from Mulan are really getting on my nerves. If the writers can’t get it together and stop doing that then Mulan just shouldn’t talk about her past anymore. It is ridiculous.
What was Jamie’s tweet?
If someone can find it, they can post but roughly– “it’s the principle of the matter. Money shouldn’t be a factor; if you say you’re going to do something, do it”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"<p style=”text-align: left;”>Late to the party as well so RG and others have already summed up much of the problems with how this LGBT relationship was handled. So I have a slightly different point.</p>
<p style=”text-align: left;”>It annoys me to no end that we all sort of accept that a particular character is Disney property and hence “untouchable.” LETA not forget that Disney is a giant capitalist machine with quasi-colonial sensibilities that appropriates stories from a common cultural patrimony and makes a profit. By trying to control how these characters are then used and by whom it tries to privatize that commons. There is plenty of litigation around this very question — what specifically can and cannot be used in other media products. Not to mention that with Mulan’s story we have the added bonus of cultural appropriation.</p>
<p style=”text-align: left;”>So I would have LOVED to see A&E push back in some way.</p>@Nevermore makes a good point. Mulan isn’t actually a Disney invention, though the one on OUAT takes its cues, seemingly, from the Disney interpretation. I think she’s untouchable only if Disney wants her to be. It’s a sad reality, but if Disney said no to anything more than hints of Mulan’s sexuality then…money speaks louder than all of us.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"What was Jamie’s tweet?
If someone can find it, they can post but roughly– “it’s the principle of the matter. Money shouldn’t be a factor; if you say you’re going to do something, do it”
Thanks. I found it.
https://twitter.com/jamiechung1/status/681348380123992065
“It’s not about the money. It about the darn principle. If you say you are gonna do something. Follow thru. Not that difficult.”
This could be about Ouat, but i doubt we will ever know.
It is so true that the story of Mulan was not first a Disney story. Also, that is no excuse for the gender neutral pronouns or for them, if they did, chickening out and not having Mulan be part of the couple. The way you change people’s views about these things is continuing to have the conversation.
–The love stories on this show are becoming tragically under developed with each passing season. It takes more than one walk and talk, one bike ride, one flower, one adventure to know that you’re in true love. Remember when this show used to declare that true love was rare and that’s why it must be fought for?
Okay, so, something I learned in reading discussion of a line from the season premiere of Orphan Black is that apparently there is a stereotype that lesbian relationships progress quickly. I’m wondering if the writers of this episode may have been (consciously or unconsciously) drawing upon this stereotype in writing this episode. Thoughts?
The line in question:
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