Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Season Two › 2×22 "… and Straight on til Morning" › Spoilers for 2×22
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March 31, 2013 at 12:01 am #183402yinloveyangParticipant
Ser_Dragon:
I guess you may know a tv show called O.C. (it wasn’t my favorite show but I know many things about it because my sister loved it so much). Then you probably know what happened with the show when the main female character died. Even though Rumple is not the same character as Marissa was, I’m totally sure his death would force many people to stop watching the show because what a show it would be if they killed every villain in every season and always brought new villains for a new season. And as you may know, this show is from producers of LOST, the show where many good guys were killed every season, while “the man in black” was fine until the last episode. And Ben Linus, another serial killer, was still alive even after Jack, the man who wanted to blow up the island and who I loved very much, died. And I never wanted Jack or Ben to ever die. I loved them both because they were the reason why I was interested in the show. Well, I usually watch many tv shows because of my favorite characters and actors.
So if Rumple ever dies it will definitely be in the series finale (either with or without redemption).[adrotate group="5"]March 31, 2013 at 12:58 am #183411RumplesGirlKeymasterWell, Ser_Dragon obviously I disagree with you, but that probably comes as no surprise. 😉
I don’t agree that killing Rumple would be best for everyone. Especially Belle. What happens to people who lose their true love? What would happen if Snow lost Charming? Regina lost Daniel and look what happened. And the way Belle is right now, lost and without an identity, she would likely remain that way. I think that phone call in Miller’s Daughter is going to help trigger some things.
Rumple has made mistakes. Absolutely. He’s a coward and manipulative and controlling but let’s not forget he’s the victim of circumstances. He too was manipulated into becoming the Dark One. To save his child. Regina became dark because she couldn’t bring back Daniel and decided power could fill the hole in her heart. Rumple descended into darkness (and madness, think about how mad he was when we first met him in the Pilot) because of his son. I don’t think killing him solves anything. His needs to be redeemed. He can’t have his faults swept under a rug. His path to redemption is a long one. I’ve said this many times but I think his path to redemption is a series long one. It will take a lot to redeem him. And it should, he’s done a lot. But I don’t think having him die is the answer. This show is about hope. For everyone. For Regina, for Rumple, for Emma and for Snow.And besides. You don’t kill Robert Carlyle. If you have the option to not kill Robert Carlyle, you take that option because…Robert Carlyle, man. 🙂
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"March 31, 2013 at 10:15 am #183434ser_dragonParticipant@yinloveyang wrote:
Ser_Dragon:
I guess you may know a tv show called O.C. (it wasn’t my favorite show but I know many things about it because my sister loved it so much). Then you probably know what happened with the show when the main female character died. Even though Rumple is not the same character as Marissa was, I’m totally sure his death would force many people to stop watching the show because what a show it would be if they killed every villain in every season and always brought new villains for a new season. And as you may know, this show is from producers of LOST, the show where many good guys were killed every season, while “the man in black” was fine until the last episode. And Ben Linus, another serial killer, was still alive even after Jack, the man who wanted to blow up the island and who I loved very much, died. And I never wanted Jack or Ben to ever die. I loved them both because they were the reason why I was interested in the show. Well, I usually watch many tv shows because of my favorite characters and actors.
So if Rumple ever dies it will definitely be in the series finale (either with or without redemption).Then, I’m sorry but if peoples are stupid enough to stop watching a show because their favorite is killed, then, I’m desperate about human mentality. Yes it’s stupid. I don’t know O.C but i suppose the show was followed by a amount of quite idiots if it crashed because of that. And I liked Ben Linus on Lost, but Jack dying while Ben live? Please.
Ah well, to each their own, I suppose it will be like with Lost, then. Good guys will die while Rumpel will stay perfectly fine until the end, and probably even beyond 🙁
I don’t agree that killing Rumple would be best for everyone. Especially Belle. What happens to people who lose their true love? What would happen if Snow lost Charming? Regina lost Daniel and look what happened.
The thing is : Belle don’t remember who he is, right now. How could she be devastated if she don’t remember she loved him? Regina wasn’t memoryless when Daniel died too. And then she would stay Lacey for ever maybe? So? What the harm? She look quite happy in her state right now, for me.
Rumple has made mistakes. Absolutely. He’s a coward and manipulative and controlling but let’s not forget he’s the victim of circumstances. He too was manipulated into becoming the Dark One. To save his child
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No no no, the victim thing is to easy an excuse, sorry. The “But it wasn’t my fault your honor” wouldn’t mean anything on a trial. He had choice back then: he had the choice to stay on the battlefield and fight, but he chooses to fly. He had the choice to not stab the Dark One, but he do. He had the choice to stop hurting people when his own son implored him to, but he chooses to follow with his dark behavior (And no, being the Dark One is not a excuse. It’s an explication, not a an excuse at all. Facing justice he would be condemned)
Regina became dark because she couldn’t bring back Daniel and decided power could fill the hole in her heart.
And who made her think like this? No, not her mother, well, not only. Clue: A demonic giggling imp. Yes Rumpel giggle while destroying other lives.
Yes Rumpel have the right to be redeemed. Through death.
And besides. You don’t kill Robert Carlyle. If you have the option to not kill Robert Carlyle, you take that option because…Robert Carlyle, man.
That is what bother me. So what, because you have a talented and great actor you can’t kill his character then? And you squeeze him dry because “it’s Robert Carlyle man”?
Hey, no flaming on you intended, uh, I don’t want to offend you in any way, this is just my opinion 😉
March 31, 2013 at 12:27 pm #183439yinloveyangParticipantSer_Dragon:
Good guys dies or suffer in real life too while worse people are fine in their lives (many people don’t have what they want because they are too good and nice to do anything for their dreams and desires) so why you think it should be different in a tv show?And I hate that idea of some people that villains can be redeemed only if they die at the end. Let’s make them suffer for many and many other years. In real life. But this is just a tv show so I think you shouldn’t take it so seriously. Just enjoy Rumple’s character and that’s it (many my favorite characters were destroyed through their journey by writers so I’ve already got used to it). If I was you I wouldn’t care about Rumple so much if you don’t like him as much as we do. Otherwise you should get used to the fact that every story needs some villains. And if you don’t know it Robert Carlyle is really good at playing bad guys. His filmography is full of villains. I even read that Eddy and Adam wanted specifically Robert to take the role.
March 31, 2013 at 12:32 pm #183440ser_dragonParticipant@yinloveyang wrote:
Ser_Dragon:
Good guys dies or suffer in real life too while worse people are fine in their lives (many people don’t have what they want because they are too good and nice to do anything for their dreams and desires) so why you think it should be different in a tv show?Because I don’t watch a show (a fantasy one with that) to see reality? If I want to see real life misery I watch J.T.
And if you don’t know it Robert Carlyle is really good at playing bad guys. His filmography is full of villains
His filmo isn’t full of villains, He played some villains, yest but his work isn’t full of it 😆
March 31, 2013 at 12:53 pm #183444RumplesGirlKeymasterhe thing is : Belle don’t remember who he is, right now. How could she be devastated if she don’t remember she loved him? Regina wasn’t memoryless when Daniel died too. And then she would stay Lacey for ever maybe? So? What the harm? She look quite happy in her state right now, for me
Correct, she doesn’t remember. But I do think the phone call in Miller’s Daughter triggered something inside her. And I don’t think anything about her current state is happy. She has no identity, no memories, no nothing. But what she does have now is this beautiful phone call trying to explain who she is. That’s what was so great about that phone call. It wasn’t Rumple declaring his undying love, that would have been selfish, it was possibly the most selfless act of his whole life. He did something for her without expecting anything in return. He is changing. He’s trying. That’s what this show is about. Hope that you can redeem yourself. Is he a murderer? Yup. In our society do murderers pay? Yup. But this is a mythical and magical story with larger than life characters where the main arch of the entire show is hope. In fairy tales, people get redeemed. They get to happily ever afters. It’s why we read them and why they still mean so much to people centuries later: hope. Hope for a better life, hope that we ourselves can be redeemed for our sins.
No no no, the victim thing is to easy an excuse, sorry. The “But it wasn’t my fault your honor” wouldn’t mean anything on a trial. He had choice back then: he had the choice to stay on the battlefield and fight, but he chooses to fly. He had the choice to not stab the Dark One, but he do. He had the choice to stop hurting people when his own son implored him to, but he chooses to follow with his dark behavior (And no, being the Dark One is not a excuse. It’s an explication, not a an excuse at all. Facing justice he would be condemned)
Of course he had a choice. I actually think it was far braver to run that night than to stay and die. He chose life and being a father instead of dying a senseless death. I’m sure part of it wasn’t that he didn’t want to die (who among us does?) but he also didn’t want to abandon his son. As a person who had been abandoned, he didn’t want to do the same. And yes, he did have a choice to leave with his son and to stop hurting people. And for that he will have to pay, but i don’t think it needs to be with his life. Let’s not forget: magic is like a drug, it gets inside you and take you over. I’m not saying magic is solely to blame of course but it is a factor in this conceptual world.
And who made her think like this? No, not her mother, well, not only. Clue: A demonic giggling imp. Yes Rumpel giggle while destroying other lives.
Yes Rumpel have the right to be redeemed. Through death.
Regina made her own choices. I have always been adamant about this. She chose to become his apprentice. She chose to learn magic. She chose to go dark when she couldn’t bring Daniel back. Did Rumple manipulate the situation? Sure. But she made her own choices. She too has to be redeemed. The woman has an entire vault full of hearts. Is her only redemption death as well? If you apply that logic to Rumple then it must be applied to Regina as well. To anyone who’s ever taken a life. So Snow must die too. And Charming. Is that really the show we want to watch? That the only path to redemption is through death? That’s not in the spirit of fairy tales. Rumple is not a wholly bad guy just like Snow isn’t a wholly good person. They are all delicate shades of gray, they all have their faults and they all have sinned. But the story Adam and Eddy are trying to tell is how we come back from those mistakes.
That is what bother me. So what, because you have a talented and great actor you can’t kill his character then? And you squeeze him dry because “it’s Robert Carlyle man”?
Hey, no flaming on you intended, uh, I don’t want to offend you in any way, this is just my opinion 😉
Not offended in the slightest. That’s what I love about these forums, it allows for open debate. So, in real life, a man like Rumple would be put to death and perhaps rightly so (this isn’t the place to get into a capital punishment debate). However, we must remember that this show is about fairy tales and therefore we must exist in the conceptual world of the fairy tale. Redemption, hope, faith, love, tragedy. All tropes and ideas to play with. Like I said before: Rumple’s redemption is going to be a series long one. And I don’t doubt that he’s going to make a lot of mistakes. That’s his nature, both as the Dark One and as Rumplestiltskin. He’s a man who makes wrong choices with the best of intentions. If his redemption came over the course of one episode or one season it wouldn’t be genuine or believable. And it needs to be those things because he has a lot to atone for. But I honestly believe that his death is not the only option.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"March 31, 2013 at 12:56 pm #183445RumplesGirlKeymasterJust saw you posted this:
Because I don’t watch a show (a fantasy one with that) to see reality? If I want to see real life misery I watch J.T.
You’re making one of my points. This is fantasy. In real life Rumple might be without redemption or only able to achieve redemption through death. But in this world, this world of magic and fairy tales and happily ever afters, there are other options that are better. His death wouldn’t be what’s best for everyone. One of the most powerful stories they can tell is one of his struggle for redemption. It will be long and painful and quite possibly beautiful.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"March 31, 2013 at 1:29 pm #182620PriceofMagicParticipantWhat we have to remember about Rumple is that, at his core, he was a parent looking for his child. What parent wouldn’t move Heaven and Hell to be reunited with their lost child? Yes the way Rumple went about it was wrong, and he knows that, and if there was an easier way Rumple would have taken it. Rumple didn’t directly jump into creating the curse. He threw the idea around as a possibility but he wanted to try other methods first, the magic bean from Smee and the ruby slippers being two we know about so far. The curse was a last resort.
There is such a difference between Rumple in his early days as the dark one and later on. He went over board with power in the early days, like a new addict experiencing their first few highs, and he paid the price for that, he lost Bae. He was less kill happy in his later days.
Rumple knows he has done wrong. Snow asked him how he lives with himself after everything he did and he gives her an honest answer. Rumple may not choose to dwell on everything he’s done wrong but that doesn’t mean he’s not aware of it all.
It is possible Regina would have cast the curse anyway, even without Rumple’s manipulations behind the scenes. The prophesies have a way of course correcting. Rumple’s involvement in Regina’s life probably made the curse happen sooner rather than later but it would have happened either way.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixMarch 31, 2013 at 1:45 pm #182959RumplesGirlKeymasterWhat we have to remember about Rumple is that, at his core, he was a parent looking for his child. What parent wouldn’t move Heaven and Hell to be reunited with their lost child? Yes the way Rumple went about it was wrong, and he knows that, and if there was an easier way Rumple would have taken it.
I think this is why I’ve always felt more sympathy for Rumple than Regina. Regina cast the out of spite, she wanted to take away Snow and Charming’s happy ending (in the most bizarre case of misdirected anger on TV ever…). Rumple did it to save his child. It may have involved some dastardly deeds, but like PoM said: what wouldn’t a parent do?
Rumple didn’t directly jump into creating the curse. He threw the idea around as a possibility but he wanted to try other methods first, the magic bean from Smee and the ruby slippers being two we know about so far. The curse was a last resort.
Great point! He looked for the slippers, he looked for a magic bean. He tried other avenues but they were always closed to him. Almost as if forces outside of his control were directing a lot of this. Fate, Destiny, the Blue Fairy, call it what you want.
There is such a difference between Rumple in his early days as the dark one and later on. He went over board with power in the early days, like a new addict experiencing their first few highs, and he paid the price for that, he lost Bae. He was less kill happy in his later days.
Yup. Once Regina started taking hearts she didn’t stop. Rumple does not have a chest full of hearts. In fact, we haven’t seen him kill anyone in quite some time. He killed Milah out of rage and feelings of betrayal. *searches memory* I suppose Gaston counts. But that’s about it in recent FTL history.
Rumple knows he has done wrong. Snow asked him how he lives with himself after everything he did and he gives her an honest answer. Rumple may not choose to dwell on everything he’s done wrong but that doesn’t mean he’s not aware of it all.
Again, yup. It also makes me wonder if on some level Rumple doesn’t think he is redemable. He knows that he’s done horrible things but he doesn’t think he’s worthy of redemption, just like he didn’t think he was worthy of Belle’s love. He has to learn to love himself first.
It is possible Regina would have cast the curse anyway, even without Rumple’s manipulations behind the scenes. The prophesies have a way of course correcting. Rumple’s involvement in Regina’s life probably made the curse happen sooner rather than later but it would have happened either way.
This was a very popular theme on LOST as well: the universe had a way of course correcting which is why no matter what Desmond did, Charlies was going to die.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"March 31, 2013 at 1:49 pm #183455ser_dragonParticipantYeah yeah I got your point you both okay okay 😆
Great point! He looked for the slippers, he looked for a magic bean. He tried other avenues but they were always closed to him. Almost as if forces outside of his control were directing a lot of this. Fate, Destiny, the Blue Fairy, call it what you want.
Didn’t thought of that actually, very good point.
I don’t understand why I’m so upset with that character and can love him so much at the same time 😕 I’ve never experienced this before. I still don’t know if I love to hate him or hate to love him or hate to hate him 😆 Kudos to the writers and Carlyle.
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