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There should be a multiple quote button..
@RumplesGirl wrote:
Can I just ask you something? If it prove to be indeed Rumple who do something to Henry, then what are you going to say? Will you still take his defense or are you going to condemn him? No bashing intended, I’m just curious.
Honestly? It depends on what he does. I have no doubt that Rumple will struggle with it and he may even have a plan, but I doubt he acts on it. If he does…then we’ll see where I stand. But mostly, I’ll always defend him. It is a very human characteristic to want to preserve one’s own life. Nobody wants to die and if Rumple is seriously considering hurting Henry then we have to acknowledge that it’s part of his humanity. To me, he is one of the most human characters on TV which is of course ironic given how unhuman he is supposed to be. I can’t see myself outright condeming him. I love him too much.
I understand the need to root for him because you love him so much, but how can I acknowledge him hurting or doing something bad to Henry? I mean, basically you are saying “Ok, Rumpel have harmed Henry, sending him away to be left alone in a stranger world. But hey, it’s ok, because it’s part of his humanity” Nobody should harm a child, for any reason whatsoever, and be forgiven for that. And I don’t think it’s being human doing that. On the contrary it’s both inhuman and prodigiously selfish. No one should put oneself before a child. Survival instinct is a thing, and I totally comprehend that, but Rumpel doing something to Henry because of that would be crossing the line for me. Then I won’t be able to defend him anymore, because it would prove he’s still a selfish coward. And being afraid of a child with that. All of his character development would be for nothing then. I really hope the writers won’t go ahead with it because it would really be the end of my love for him. It would really put him beyond any comprehension or forgiving for me.
But for now I wait and see.
If Rumple has a plan to remove Henry from SB (as I suspect he does) and then acts on it, then he really will have learnt nothing from when he let go of Baelfire and there will be no justification for it.
This. Rumple is know to have bullied any chance he could have to do the right things in the past. If he destroy that one, it will be the one too many in my eyes.
[adrotate group="5"]Friday, I ate dinner in the park where this was filmed. We missed them by one day. 🙁
I said this in my post, but it depends on what he does to Henry. IF he does anything to Henry. I have to wait and watch. I personally believe he has learned something. Maybe not a lot, but something. No one should hurt a child, I agree. Absolutely. I’m not a monster! But I don’t think Rumple is either. I think the good in him will win out.
But Come talk to me after we’ve seen this episode.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"@LaurieAnne wrote:
@RumplesGirl wrote:
I think he’s learned a lot. I think he knows he made the wrong choice as he said to Bae in The Miller’s Daughter. I think he’s going to struggle with it, absolutely. He wouldn’t be Rumple if he didn’t. But I think the game-changer is going to be a positive one. There is still plenty of drama for Papa and Bae to be played out (especially if Bae and Hook had a father/son relationship). It’s going to be a long (series long) road for Rumple to redemption and there will be setbacks but I don’t think he will follow through with any plan he has about Henry.
Yes, Rumple has acknowledged his mistakes to Neal, so their relationship seems to be looking up right about now. Yet, just as Rumple was facing death and apologizing to Neal, he was simultaneously conning Snow White into killing Cora with dark magic to save his own skin. So, has he really learned form his mistakes? Robert Carlyle said at Paley Fest that even after centuries of searching for Baelfire, Mr. Gold really hadn’t learned anything; he offered to use magic to turn Baelfire back into a teenager again, and magic is what cost Rumple his boy again in the first place. If Rumple has any hope of true redemption, it has to result from his own choice to willingly give up magic once and for all. As long as he clings to magic, he will keep paying the high price.
For me, it will all come down to what are Rumple’s intentions. Does he really want to change for his own sake, and not just to please his son or Belle? He has chosen magic both over Belle and Baelfire before, and since then Rumple, has really only acted in a self-serving manner. I recall a conversation in which Regina said intent is everything (when speaking about their deal that something tragic should happen to Kathryn) and Rumple had to play his please card to avoid speaking about his intentions. He has a way of nit-picking over all the details so that people don’t see his intent. I know he loves Belle and Bae, but he has hurt them both, which is the price Rumple has had to pay for his magic. You’d think he’d have learned not to tamper with magic after he lost Bae and used the curse to arrive in a land land without magic, yet he brought magic to SB anyway. Immediately after, Rumple promised Belle he wouldn’t harm Regina, but then had the Wraith do his dirty work. Bring magic caused the people of SB to lose their memory if they crossed the town line, so that Belle lost her memory. That was a huge price to pay for Rumple.
What are Rumple’s intentions? Whether he even tries to carry out the plan to remove Henry is really the lynch pen. Will Rumple give up his magic if it means saving Henry? Could that be his undoing? Or does Rumple still think he can keep Baelfire and his magic by plotting to be rid of Henry? I doubt he’d ever kill his grandson, but he probably wants him out of the picture. I think Rumple believes he can out-smart destiny, by being rid of Henry, but in the midst of carrying out his plan, he realizes that “undoing” can have many different meanings. Perhaps he sets his plan into motion to be rid of Henry by trying to send him away, but as he does so, Rumple has second thoughts and then sacrifices himself to save Henry, but it comes too late, and instead Baelfire is sent far away. Just my thoughts.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Intent is important, I agree and I’ve said numerous times that I do think he has a plan. But intention is one thing, following through is another. I think the good will win out in him because he has people who love him, who believe in him and want him to be the good man. Good won out when he walked away from killing Hook because Belle pleaded with him. “There’s still good in you. I’ve seen it, I’ve always seen it. Please show me I’m not wrong.” And in the end, I think he’ll place family ahead of his selfish desires to remain powerful.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"@RumplesGirl wrote:
Intent is important, I agree and I’ve said numerous times that I do think he has a plan. But intention is one thing, following through is another. I think the good will win out in him because he has people who love him, who believe in him and want him to be the good man. Good won out when he walked away from killing Hook because Belle pleaded with him. “There’s still good in you. I’ve seen it, I’ve always seen it. Please show me I’m not wrong.” And in the end, I think he’ll place family ahead of his selfish desires to remain powerful.
I think we’re mostly in agreement here. I wrote, “What are Rumple’s intentions? Whether he even tries to carry out the plan to remove Henry is really the lynch pen.” If he doesn’t even try to harm Henry in any way, then that’d be great for everyone involved and the family could actually have a happy resolution for once. Yet, seeing as Neal and Henry were missing from the Jolly Roger and this is only the end of S2 with still at least one more season to go, I just don’t think Rumple could so easily reach his redemption yet. But, maybe I’m totally wrong, and Rumple will act self-sacrifically. I’d love to see a Rumple become a normal man through a TLK. But where do the writers go from there if they totally remove the Dark One from the equation? There’re always Regina, new villains like Tamara and potentially other antagonists from other worlds, but it just seems a tad premature for Rumple to give up his magic yet (though we could hope). Maybe the rest of Rumple’s struggle will really be how he comes to terms with being just like everyone else, as Henry said back in Manhattan when Rumple was have anxiety attacks in the airport terminal.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Yet, seeing as Neal and Henry were missing from the Jolly Roger and this is only the end of S2 with still at least one more season to go, I just don’t think Rumple could so easily reach his redemption yet
Agreed. It’s a series long redemption for him. It has to be. I’ve always maintained that. He has a lot to atone for. It cannot be swept away in one minute or with one act.
I don’t know if I want him to be normal right away. I think Rumple as the Dark One is really good TV. But I want him to learn how to use magic for the good.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"@RumplesGirl wrote:
Yet, seeing as Neal and Henry were missing from the Jolly Roger and this is only the end of S2 with still at least one more season to go, I just don’t think Rumple could so easily reach his redemption yet
Agreed. It’s a series long redemption for him. It has to be. I’ve always maintained that. He has a lot to atone for. It cannot be swept away in one minute or with one act.
I don’t know if I want him to be normal right away. I think Rumple as the Dark One is really good TV. But I want him to learn how to use magic for the good.
But wasn’t it Rumple’s intent to use magic for good to save the children from the Ogre’s war (which he did)? Yet, then that dark power corrupted him and cost him his son. So we’re back to intent, which really does seem to be everything, Rumple may think he can change and keep magic, but he can’t have everything, which is what he warned Regina in 2×17, but she insisted she could.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
But wasn’t it Rumple’s intent to use magic for good to save the children from the Ogre’s war (which he did), but then that dark power corrupted him and cost him his son. So we’re back to intent, which really does seem to be everything, Rumple may think he can change and keep magic, but he can’t have everything, which is what he warned Regina in 2×17 but she insisted she could.
We’re back to intent but we’re also back to “has he learned anything.” It was his intent to turn those powers toward good. But he was corrupted because the power became so important and so addicting, so much so that he lost his son and then his true love because of it. But now, if he has learned something, like that magic is a crutch that he can’t walk without or that he made the wrong choice when it came to Bae, magic doesn’t need to corrupt him again, because he knows what lies down that particular path, having traveled it once before. He can make better choices. I would describe his character as a man who makes wrong choices with the best of intents. So many it’s time to make the right choices with the best of intents, using his magic. To resist the urge to be dark, to fight against that part of his nature. That’s a beautiful struggle in my eyes and one I’d like to see them explore in S3. It might also shed some light on the nature of the Dark One’s curse which I know many of us have wondered about.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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