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When the show began, it established the traditional couples – Snowing, Cinderella and what’s-his-face, Rumbelle and then they started breaking away from the ‘traditional’ or ‘Disney-esque’ mold. First they redefined ‘True Love’ with Emma and Henry’s relationship, and then they started toying with the question of ‘One True Love’ vs ‘Truly Loving’ but moving on. I think at this point there’s no telling who will end up with who, and I like that. So, I think Tink, or Neal, or anyone, other than the MAJOR two traditional pairings could eventually be paired together. There’s secondary characters that they could be paired with, characters they haven’t introduced, or “regular” people, like Emma and Henry, that they could introduce in the future. Again, better storytelling than falling back on the same old, reused storylines and triangles. And I think that’s why many CS fans felt Emma/Hook/Neal as a real triangle. They’re 3 of the main characters to address the various themes the A&E have introduced. So I think although it seems Tink may get a romantic pairing later in the season or next, I doubt it will be Hook or even Neal. Way too predictable.
[adrotate group="5"]Sorry I was not trying to be disrespectful, I just didn’t want to type all the reasonings again
The water is flowing under the bridge 😉
CaptainEala wrote: A traditional triangle IN NO WAY REPRESENTS epic True Love. Because if you think about it, really think about it logically, if Neal was Emma’s TL, there would be no choice to make. Killian wouldn’t even be in the picture. He wouldn’t have a chance. She wouldn’t be vacillating at all.
Well put
Why thank you! 🙂
@surayya – I’m agreeing with you lol, all I can see at the moment is Tinkerfire. They looked so happy to see each other in Dark Hollow!!! 🙂 And like MysteryKat keeps saying, it’s nice to see someone making Neal smile like that.Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
surayya wrote: The one major floor I see in your logic of CS not happening as endgame, is ALL the CS frame work that has been laid down from S1… infact it started with the pilot!
I think you might be right… I am not sure where i read the meaning of Killian Jones originally, maybe Wikapedia? maybe here? Many of the websites dealing with names list Jones as meaning ‘gracious’ or ‘gift of Jehovah.’ Many of the baby name pages list Killian as meaning ‘church.’ In addition to ‘bright headed, little warrior and blind. Mean while in JM Barrie’s book of Peter Pan he is called James Hook… James meaning is ‘supplanter.’ So I was just thinking if they did not use James then what made them select Killian Jones. Anyone hear / read anything on this? Just curious… maybe they had big plans from the start and it is not really like those Anti Hook comments floating around stating that the power of the CS Fandom is influencing A&E. Maybe they planned to give him a better name than his current self deserved… maybe they planned all along a gradual progression of becoming a better man… worthy of his name. Just a thought…
Interesting!! A&E are all about the parallels and symbolism! Good call looking up the meanings of the names…it’s more subtle than the Queen/Regina, Snow/MM, Rumple/Gold ones, but it definitely works!
Well to be fair, Bae was what, 14 when he knew her before? (I swear he had a crush on her though, more on that shortly), and they likely didn’t cross paths as long as she did with Hook. I don’t think anything that may or may not have happened with Hook and Tink in the past matters in the long run though because it wasn’t enough to get him to give up his revenge or move on. To use another couple as an example, this would be like Rumple/Cora – she wasn’t enough and didn’t change anything. It took Belle to do that.
I want Tink to be happy. I’d love for her to stick around since she seems to be a good person and is friends with Regina etc etc. I realllly don’t think they are trying to start up a “well Hook’s gonna be with Tink now” by having her be so obviously used as a distraction to get over Emma. It’s just not very fair to the character. If she does get a love interest (which will be interesting because of the wings thing – I think she’ll get them back and then fairies aren’t supposed to love but maybe she could I don’t know yet), then it may not be for awhile and maybe for down the line.
Look at it this way: Colin and MRJ and JMO have all basically said recently that they knew what they were in store for as far as some big arcs. Not the little details along the way, they like to be surprised with scripts too, but for instance, MRJ had a pretty good idea of the arc for his first season on the show to help him get a grasp on the character. Likewise they told only JMO who Henry’s father was because obviously Emma would know these things. All 3 knew that they were pretty much leading up to this “triangle” (I still am not convinced it really is one based on Emma’s words/actions and see it much more as getting over her past which has always been an obstacle to her having a future and a second chance at love similar to Regina and Hook). They knew that basically from the get-go when they were both brought in and everything that’s been building from that since they expected.
So Rose may know some things, especially if she might needed for a longer commitment (ie: as a love interest to a core character). It’s like when they replaced Robin Hood because they decided to move that up a bit and needed him around more and the other guy wasn’t going to be able to work with that. So now we have Sean and, by the end of S3, I fully expect him to be either a regular or a pretty regular guest star as his character is in a relationship with Regina (I would hope by then! It’s a S3 loose end for sure since they haven’t met yet!)
Colin was made a regular pretty fast and he’s moved his family to Vancouver which screams long term commitment and while others are warming up to him, Emma is his main connection to the core cast. They’ve been building toward CS for a long time (Adam even confirmed in S2 they shared “canon romantic moments” and keep using language that suggests there is a future for them whereas Neal’s scenes always suggest it’s just a matter of time before it’s over. Some of these overlap a bit, but the gist is the same.
It doesn’t seem plausible to me that after 1 episode back from NL, they’re just gonna scrap all of that and go with Hookerbell. IF they were ever going to make them a couple, they started it off in a very bad way that was not very nice to half the ship. You’d think they’d want us to root for the relationship since Emma’s should be TL and whoever she doesn’t choose should find their TL. It won’t appease all the shippers by any means, but sometimes we learn to love it because we’re invested in the guy. So for CSers, it’s hard to stomach Hookerbell already, but especially when presented that way. He’s miserable, it clearly means NOTHING to him, she KNOWS she would mean nothing and doesn’t want any part of it. On top of that I really do believe it was only in there to show how miserable he was and to make Emma jealous. Tink is someone who is big on TL and people being with who they’re meant to be with and that being apart = them being miserable. I’d like to think she’d choose better for herself (if fairies can love) than someone who was just using her.
Compare and contrast Tink’s actions with Hook vs Neal. She seemed HAPPY to see Baelfire. She positively lit up (and so did he). It’s why we LIKED the interaction. Not because it *potentially* gives Neal someone, but because they actually seemed happy and it was something that was actually appealing, similar to Emma being happy around Hook and vice versa. It brings out the best in them.
Tink is big on finding one’s soulmate etc. I fully expect that to come back into play but I don’t think based on what they’ve been doing all season, especially with the otherwise pointless scene of making Emma be obviously jealous of her being close to Hook, that they’re going to suddenly undo all of that, change Tink’s entire character to both be ok with being used as well as not believing in love (she hasn’t been around for the big confessions or kiss or any of that and she STILL knew that Hook’s heart belonged to Emma). That would completely underwrite her character to do a 180 right now.
Same with Emma frankly. I totally get the worry (more on that shortly), but for how much she’s been dreading and “terrified” and recoiling and only seeming to agree with Neal when he’s saying things like “Henry might be the only good thing that came out of us” I just can’t see her doing a 180 either. She didn’t plan to show up for the date even though she had more than one very good excuse to and she was jealous of Tink. These are things that continue the pattern of not wanting to go back to Neal. Especially since part of her secret (which was proven by the caves) was that she wanted it to be easier for her to move on. Not that she couldn’t do it but that it would have been easier without him right in front of her reminding her of all the pain and the reasons that she’s so afraid to take that leap of faith and trust someone because the last time she did she got hurt.
Now, as you said these are all very present day in the moment things. Let’s focus on longterm. This is a show about hope and TL and while most of the couples we’ve seen have been shown to us as TL and then we see snippets of them falling in love, the majority of it is their fight to stay together, against all odds. Well, that’s the opposite of SF. Their fight hasn’t been to stay together. Their fight has been he left her and gave her lots of emotional issues and now she’s fighting everyone because they keep telling her to go to him when she’s not interested. When Snow told her to have hope Neal was alive she whined “Why?” like a 5 year old being told to eat their vegetables (and we’ve seen her reactions since then too).
A&E have said many times that they truly love each other but that truly loving someone doesn’t mean you end up together. And of course by extension, ending up together = true love. Emma has said before that she loves him and probably always will but that she wants to move on with her life. Now I’m just waiting for her to stand up and speak up for herself because I think it’s wearing thin for her with everyone ignoring the things she actually wants to talk about (first Tamara being shifty, then the kiss with Hook, then Henry being weird) and everyone is too focused on “she must be jealous” or “she needs to go back to Neal” but she doesn’t.
This is not a typical love triangle. Most shows do the triangle to create drama and angst and keep hype up. Has the network been using it and driving us all mad? Absolutely! But Adam has said many times that they’re not writing “triangles” they’re writing stories. What we’ve seen so far is Emma being absolutely incapable to more forward because of her TRUST ISSUES that stem from Neal abandoning her. The “triangle” where she has “a legitimate pull” between both men is real because she does to an extent. Her first love / father of her child who wasn’t tricking her all those years ago but chose things for her that changed her life and left some very big scars vs the man she was too afraid to trust because he might do the same thing.
But this isn’t a back-and-forth type situation. The beauty for these writers so far in these stories has been showing a couple together and then watching them fight to stay together. I don’t see Emma picking Hook and then going back. If she picked Neal I’d say it was at least debatable. She’s got people telling her to go back to him, she has a sense of obligation for Henry possibly, and that 17 year old inside her is feeling loved and vindicated and it would make perfect sense for all of that to drive him to that for a time and at least try. We’ve said that all along.
To go to Hook who very obviously has DEEP feelings involved, as we learn from the caves so it’s legit that she’s the only one he’s loved since Milah, it would cruel to pick him in the short-term and she is NOT cruel. She hates false hope more than most and has been subtly/not-so-subtly leading Neal down a path to acceptance which is what his arc has been all season.
It would make sense for them to try and realize they’re not the same people, or for him to outright choose him. She was always a character who had flings instead of relationships and she could easily have been written to have a fling with Hook to “get him out of her system” if they wanted to go that route. It’s something we’ve known about her practically from the beginning. It’s part of her armor. It’s “as far as she ever goes” because otherwise it leads to pain. But that hasn’t been the case with Hook. Just like they could have written him to be that kind of person with her (obvious tension and all) they, again, did not do that. They made their relationship MEAN something. The buildup has been slow (somewhat) because Hook has only recently moved forward with his life and Emma is still battling those issues. Therein lies the triangle.
I really don’t see them having Emma use Hook or try something only to get him out of her system and then go back. Going back makes no sense in the bigger picture of the story because that’s not who she is. S1 focused a lot on her opinions of things and how she lives her life and they made a point of even having MM tell her she didn’t want her to revert back to the person she used to be (which is the one that she keeps bringing up when thinking she’s a horrible mother or doesn’t deserve good things because that’s who she was when her life fell apart too – she’s a better, stronger person now. It’s like with Dreamy embracing his pain and becoming Grumpy. That’s what makes him him). Her going back after all of that great character growth is not that great of a story if you boil it down to what people will relate to it in the real world. It’s not one that I personally would want, that’s for sure. I see her as someone who is strong and has overcome a lot and deserves better than to play 2nd fiddle to the person he chose over her. It hasn’t matched with any of the TL couples we’ve seen elsewhere, especially the one that actually MAKES HER the product of TL in the first place. “What’s 28 years when you have eternal love?” vs 10 years….well she won’t forgive me anyway, time to move on and continue choosing the new girl over her until she tries to kill me and THEN I’ll give my undying love.
Emma’s just been betrayed too many times. Neal had the best of intentions and was legitimately scared, I get that. But it was a big point that was highlighted in his acceptance of Rumple abandoning him. It hurt him, caused untold emotional trauma, nightmares, etc etc for hundreds of years, but once he believed his father when he said he never stopped trying to find him to make up for it? THAT’S when he accepted it.
Had that happened and Neal showed up in SB the moment he could get there (like I expected him to back when I actually shipped the idea of SF even though we hadn’t met him as an adult yet I might add), but he didn’t. He didn’t come back for her, he didn’t fight to GET back to her, he didn’t spend forever trying to make up for it. He wrote it off, wrote himself out of his life, let his fear of rejection overcome his belief in love, and moved on with someone else (who he genuinely loved and we were told he DID move on with – when that goes against everything we’ve been told about TL which again, would undermine that for the show in the long run in my opinion. It just doesn’t match up.)
I do think it was a sacrifice for him, and he had good reasons etc. I want him to be happy and have a fresh slate with someone else. I don’t think Emma will take him back even in the short-term but the idea that she might is understandable for her. It’s also one of the reasons I actually liked Hook going against the advice he would usually follow (to fight no matter what) because not only did it put Henry first (something that is important for his character growth after what happened with Baelfire as well as making sure that Henry doesn’t resent him down the line should his mother choose Hook instead of Neal).
That’s really the only way I see her flip-flopping around is if she goes back to Neal because of obligation or to try even if she’s not really into the idea 100% (be it from people pushing her, wanting to make Henry happy, the 17 year old inside her wondering what if? etc etc to get IT out of her system so that she can fully put it behind her). In fact if that happened it would be a parallel to David/Kathryn so you can see why I’m not all that worried about it (other than it crushing Hook in the meantime).
But that doesn’t seem to be where her attitude has been lately. She doesn’t seem to want to go back and I don’t see them undermining Hook’s redemption with him doing things right and then saying that her TL is her first love when all of the above things are true. She’s not acting that way right now, has never wavered on that, Neal’s been on a path to acceptance, Hook’s been on a path to win her heart the right way, and it just doesn’t match with any other TL. They’re all their own stories, but it would be WAY too difficult to defend to the audience who has been noticing the extreme discrepancies. It would be make sense in the short-term but I expect Emma to make a choice and stick with it hopefully sometime soon and I just don’t see her going back and having them say “there you have it folks. 100% absolute TL, CS isn’t gonna happen now.” In fact if it were to happen, I’d fully expect them to say like they did with the whole “CS is spending time together but they think Neal is dead right now….” thing only in reverse, saying “well she’s with him right now but they haven’t worked out their issues yet…” whereas they told us 100% done when they showed us Regina/Robin.
If CS happens first, I totally get the worry. We want it to be endgame and, like our captain, are in it for the long haul. On MOST shows I’d be petrified. But based on everything we know, I’m inclined to think that Emma could very well choose Hook and have every reason to do so and they COULD say it’s a done deal. That Neal is gonna be in her life no matter what and they get along great and then focus on finding Neal some happiness with his family and eventually a new love interest. I could see that working for sure, whereas if she chooses Neal and they mean for it to be endgame, then they’d have to come out and say 100%, because many in the fandom aren’t gonna buy that based on what we know right now. We accept that she COULD in the meantime but with how they’ve written it this season in particular, it would seem like a complete 180 to go from how much she doesn’t want to even set up a talk and doesn’t choose herself to go on the date that could make him stop bugging her, but she’s suddenly happy and wants to go back to him?
It made sense with the ILY in SSTTR. It was “closure” for her to know that she wasn’t tricked all those years ago. She started to believe in herself again and then right after that, started TRUSTING the man she was afraid to trust before but desperately wanted to. She was actually letting herself get to the point where she was “feeling good” and then all that pain was dragged up again. On top of that, again, pointless for her to be jealous of Tink right then, on top of how awkward and unromantic that Hookerbell scene was. (Ship and let ship but I personally do not understand shipping someone so that they’re clearly being used. Not the romantic way to start off a ship that many people will be opposed to because it would mean their guy “lost” Emma. Have a meet cute. See some sparks, find SOMETHING beautiful to hold onto. A *potential* past that doesn’t mean anything because it never changed him for the better or allowed him to move on, followed by her watching how in love he is with someone else and then trying to use her in some way to drown out said obvious feelings? Not romantic.)
I can only imagine what would happen if Neal had been in that situation. Like it or not he did genuinely love Tamara but they at least had a (totally rigged) meet cute where they bonded over bumping into each other. Unlike say, Emma watching Neal choose Tamara until she tried to kill him, or Tink knowing full well that Hook just wants a distraction from Emma.
S3 was about redemption for our core villains. Letting them finally overcome a lot of their bigger faults and find someone to genuinely care about. We started off 3×01 with Hook and Regina discussing whether villains could find happy endings (cue camera showing Hook look at Emma). Then early on we’re introduced to Tink, a former fairy (I still think she’ll get her wings back soon), who believes in TL and soulmates and has pixie dust which “never fails” and proves to Regina that she can love again (and still genuinely believes that she can and will when she meets the man with the lion tattoo – psst, I believe too and am excited for it!)
I think Tink will end up being a huge part of this and we might finally see something proven by something less questionable than say, hearts being takable or TLK since a mother/son relationship broke it once too (and they truly love each other which technically Emma and Neal do in their own way. You can love someone without being IN love with them though). So I expect Tink to be a huge part of this. She knows both guys at least a little bit and she didn’t try to discourage Hook from being interested in Emma. She saw it for what it was and then went to talk to Regina about finding her TL. Coincidence?
Whether Tink will fall in love or if she would have to give up her wings to do so, I don’t know. I see her as someone who will be trying to help settle some of these debates (likely just getting annoyed and saying here I can prove it once Emma makes a choice to get everyone off her back), and then giving the man left behind hope that he could love again too. This season has had many characters realizing that they can move on from their first loves, while watching couples like Snowing not being able to even IMAGINE doing so. They’re so bonded and fight for each other no matter what that they just can’t see that.
Regina struggled for 40ish years before getting to now where she might sorta almost be ready for it. Hook has suffered for centuries before being able to move on. Neal was “dead” for what, 5 days? And Emma was “feeling good” and kissing someone else. Also their reunion wasn’t sweeping hug and kiss like all the others no matter what happened between them when they were separated or cursed. That didn’t MATTER because they were just so glad the other was alive. These are all TL things.
Yes Emma has walls. Huge walls. Understandably so. So does Hook. So does Regina. So did Rumple. TL brings out the best in people and brings those walls down. It lets them be VULNERABLE and let someone in, even when they think they’re unlovable. If Rumple can do that, after all the pain he went through with Milah and Cora and being the Dark One and losing his son and kicking himself for screwing things up and fighting to get it back…if he can go through all of that and Belle can STILL convince the man who is convinced he’s unlovable that their love is strong? Anything is possible where TL is concerned.
With CS it transcends realms. We’ve seen them in the EF, SB, NL, and it gets stronger. Rumple threatened Hook to get Emma to go to NY in the first place. Charming told Emma that this world has been nothing but cruel to her (she met Hook in the EF, not this world) etc etc. Emma learned back in 2×09 that love is STRENGTH. You know what I see when I look at her with Hook? Strength. He supports her. He makes her believe in herself. (Very much like Belle does with Rumple and Charming does with Snow). She looks to him for reassurance and STRENGTH to find a way. With Neal we’ve seen her recoil and be terrified and fall apart because it’s all too painful.
Yes that means she has feelings and strong ones at that. She admitted that herself, she loves him and probably always will. But that love doesn’t give her STRENGTH. It’s not who she turns to when she’s in trouble. Even when Neal is calling the shots sometimes she goes to Hook for reassurance or explanations. It is completely understandable that she has feelings but doesn’t seek him out to deal with them. It’s PAINFUL for her, but she’s not taking the “easy” way out by ignoring it and running to Hook. She hasn’t had a lot of time to process things and keeps getting pulled in all different directions, but with Neal being alive and right in front of her and asking for another chance, she is having to FACE all of that before she CAN be with anyone.
Even to go back to Neal she’d have to face all of that. It’s why Hook wants to step back (besides putting Henry first). He’s in it for the long haul. He doesn’t want her to have any doubts or what ifs or wondering whether she should go back or not. He wants her to choose him when and only when it’s JUST HIM. He even said in his “When I win your heart” speech that when he wins it it will because she wants him. NOBODY deserves to be the distraction or the rebound or the person used to try and get someone else out of your system.
With the other triangles, Abigail/Charming/Snow and Mulan/Phillip/Aurora, we knew going into it who had to end up together. (I’m ignoring Tamara’s “triangle” because to me triangle = actual legitimate feelings, not using people for ulterior motives and she was in a relationship with Greg so it’s actually a rectangle and they were technically together and the rest was a lie.) Abigail wasn’t even really interested in being married off and her SB counterpart, while upset on principle, realized that being with someone who actually wants to be with you is always going to be better than being the person someone is trying to force themselves to love because of “obligations.” With Mulan, she knew Phillip & Aurora were TL but she still learned to love both and for awhile there thought Phillip was dead and loved Aurora but never said anything and then Aurora found a way to get Phillip back and they went off to do that and succeeded. Mulan waited too long and let her fear of rejection get in the way (just like Neal), whereas Hook helped Emma get Neal back (Emma was not actively trying to get Neal back nor hoping he was alive for any other reason than to get Henry and go home safely and he knew the way and Henry needs him – remember her original sadness was all what do I tell Henry?), and Hook DID make his feelings known. They were not the same situation AT ALL, whereas Mulan and Neal have a lot in common and that’s how we started the season.
(Side note – I miss MuFire scenes. I shipped them more in 2 episodes than I’ve seen any other adult Neal relationship I’ve liked, other than the Tink huge light-up smiles, but at least they could be good friends and understand each other. Their stories are SO similar and we started off the season with Mulan realizing she was the 3rd wheel to TL and finding a new path in life away from that and I’d love it – wishful thinking I’m sure – if the same happens with Neal now. SO SIMILAR.)
The only only only thing that ever worries me with all of this is wayyyy back when, somebody freaked out on twitter about CS (go figure) and Adam said that there are the people who are right for you, the people who are wrong for you, and sometimes there are the people you just choose (it was something along those lines, possibly not the exact quote).
At the time, many thought that it meant CS was endgame (haters of CS that is) because they thought of Hook as being the “wrong” guy. CSers responded to Adam with being upset that he said that Hook was the wrong guy for Emma (or at least implying it) and he said that Hook could be the right guy, we’ll just have to wait and see (typical!). Well fastforward and now all I see is the right guy (Hook), the wrong guy (Neal) and the “sometimes there are the people you just choose” – which is the ONLY real thing that scares me anymore. That’s it.
In the bigger picture of the entire show, CS fits. I may not have their dream castle picked out with a name of a dream from long ago (that frankly has since died and at LEAST needs a rename, it’s tainted for Emma, she’s already blown up about him finding it with someone else and on her behalf I’m offended – sorry but I am), and I may not have all their kids named or have any idea of where the show will go between now and then storywise and who will be around and what all the dynamics will be, but I do believe in a few things about CS: that they are better together than apart. That they are true love and that somehow, someway, Emma’s epic true love story will actually fit in with everything else we’ve seen.
I’ve just seen far too many ways that they could have done it, and easily made people more torn for Emma’s sake (I was on the fence for awhile debating it even though I was hardcore CS after Tallahassee. I panicked for a LONG time and was afraid that they’d want me to like something else and I love the SHOW so want to love whatever they do and thought of a million ways they might go to accomplish that). NONE OF IT HAS HAPPENED.
We’re watching Emma’s journey play out in real time. We’ve gotten the highlight reel to get us up to speed and understand why she reacted to Hook the way she did (and said as much in that episode basically). We’re seeing her have to come to grips with the past which is what he recently did, and we have seen every significant interaction of Emma’s love story with Hook. Emma is one of the few that we can have a present day love story play out with and it makes sense that they’re actually doing that from start to finish with our main character.
On top of that the parallels etc (especially within the same episode) are a big deal on this show. I can’t begin to tell you how many times I’ve heard how pointless and boring the Snowing eps have been this season because people think they’re completely irrelevant even though they have a LOT of parallels to CS, this most recent one included. I’ve written many times now about how I thought they would go for what would have been a PERFECT parallel for SF to Snowing in 3×10 and chose not to.
If Emma had shown up on the date but then pushed the date aside to focus on Henry (totally legit), it would have been similar to Charming realllly wanting his honeymoon but focusing on Medusa to alleviate Snow’s fears. It would have been perfect and obvious and they DID NOT DO IT. Whereas every episode we’ve seen of them has either compared/contrasted Neal & Hook, or paralleled them to Milah/Rumple. Even their last “reunion” was compared with Hook because we spent the majority of the episode seeing how Hook is putting Emma first. Wanting to rescue Neal on their own in case it was a lie so she wouldn’t have to go through the pain again. Going to find Neal in the first place because not only would it help get them home and he was an old friend, but because he kept being told this was who Emma loved and it would make her happy, even if it hurt him. In that episode we got parallels to Ariel’s story (choosing a friend over going to her love even though it made her miserable etc) and we spent more time on Hook’s grand declaration than we did on the “reunion” which consisted of Emma NOT wanting him back and saying so on two separate occasions in different ways, all within a couple of minutes.
It’s easy to panic and think that if CS happens first we’re doomed and on most shows I’d say you’re right. (This is not TVD or even LOST – and for the record, these were just 2 of the writers on Lost, not the showrunners). We have different setups here because of TL. Based on everything the characters have ever said/done, and how consistent the show has been about certain key things, I have very little doubt that CS is endgame but could still happen soon-ish. Emma hasn’t had a chance to deal with a lot of her emotions, much less get ANYBODY to listen to her and hear her out (the last time she tried to talk to Snow about the kiss went ohhhh so well….she can’t get anyone to listen to how she feels about Hook at all, and they don’t know much about the Neal stuff either but keep pushing it).
Now with big stuff ahead (possible curse if Pan gets his way which he very well could), Emma is once again facing the possibility of losing someone or forgetting them or being separated or whatever it is. She almost lost both guys this season already and it was Hook that she yelled for, even though Neal was yelling for her. Sometimes she says things and then backtracks a bit because they survive. Mom & Dad vs MM & David, saying ILY to Neal and then HAVING to backtrack because she DOES love him but she’s not getting back together. (That was more “closure” for the past and now that he’s back, he needed to know that she meant it but it doesn’t change anything). So depending on what is said and how things work out, we just don’t know.
That said, I feel like there HAS to be some acknowledgement of her feelings for Hook in there somewhere. She JUST got jealous while not caring all too much about the fact she was never going to go on the date with Neal even though it would get him to stop bugging her. (I almost feel like it’s a reverse of Manhattan – Neal was never going to come back but Rumple dragged Emma to go find him). Emma was never going to go on the date but Charming dragged her back to it). Their fathers mean well and did it for different reasons, but NEITHER knew the history or how things might have changed since then and, ultimately, it’s up to Emma, who, if memory serves, isn’t overly fond of everyone else making decisions for her life.
So have faith. It’s hard, believe me it’s hard and some days are better than others. I wasn’t gonna do long posts for a bit but felt the need to respond to this. It’s totally understandable to be worried or on the fence about things. I get upset easily at stuff too, especially when I can’t figure out how to reconcile new details yet. But until I’m given a concrete reason to believe otherwise, I believe in CS 100%.
Upon rewatching things, I look for the clues. I sometimes notice things that seem to lean more SF heavy, even some things I’m later able to recognize as actually being positive things for CS even if they don’t look that way at first. I understand why the fanbase is divided and people see reason to believe in their ship as much as we do. I get it.
But every time I go back, while I like Neal more outside of his relationship with Emma, I see more and more things that add up to CS than I do SF. Things that I can’t compute in the bigger picture as fitting in with everything we’ve been shown. Things that, while they might make me panic just a tiny bit because I could see why they rely so heavily on that idea. But then I’m reminded of all the things that DO fit. That do make sense. That do follow the setup of the show. And then I’m alright again. There is an overwhelming amount of things to fall back on. Looking forward to a rewatch with all the new information this season has given us and seeing how it adds up even more, but I’ve been pretty happy with S3 so far. Even the moments that made me want to scream at first, or caused a little worry, or on the surface seemed like it would be better for them than for us. Because as Adam is fond of saying, context is everything. We’ll just have to wait and see. (After all, things that people held on to all summer as headcanon didn’t necessarily pan out quite that way. Even things that seemed to be true this season that seemed random and out of the blue and point in a different direction were later explained more fully and different things applied to it.)
I believe Emma. Her words, her actions. JMO too. And so far everything is telling me that it’s understandable that she has feelings for Neal, but that she’s not in love with him or will be in the longrun.
So try to look forward and think happy thoughts! After all, even though Emma has her guard up and lots of things going on and may or may not answer anything for us completely in 3×11 we do have a big emotional episode coming up and when Emma gets emotional, we usually get some truth & JMO did mention something about Emma’s “truth” about both guys coming out in some surprising way that nobody would see coming. (I don’t think she meant the echo caves but I suppose that could have been it…) We JUST had her jealous of Tink so I don’t think they’re gonna say surprise, she doesn’t care about Hook. Just saying… We also have a hug in 3×12, a mysterious bug road trip with Hook and Henry, and CS has been spotted filming together in 3×13 & 3×14 as well (in the woods for 3×14). So cheer up! We have lots of good things to look forward to and they’ll actually be spending time together! Plus I really really really don’t think they’re gonna make Hook be the one to spend the most time with her while pining for her while helping her get back to Neal bc Neal is her TL. That….would just be WAY too cruel. He’d do it to make her happy and bc he loves her and cares about Neal too but that’s just wrong on so many levels. Time together = a good thing and if they’re letting Neal have some time away to move forward with his life too, the better. He did tell August “If I knew she ok then I could move on” which…he did without even knowing.
I’ve said it recently but given his attitude this season, I think he may actually take it a LOT better than I was originally anticipating. Whereas Hook has fallen in line with everyone else in the TL world where they’re miserable and upset when their TL is gone but even moreso if they know they’re still out there. The only one who didn’t crumble and fall back on bad behavior was Aurora but she tried to kill one of our heroes because she blamed them for Phillip’s “death” and then learned to channel that into something else but was still upset and went 100% on a mission to save Phillip on the POSSIBILITY that Cora was actually not lying for once. So really, it still fits.
Plus Hook’s annoying behavior this past episode makes sense. People thought he was redeemed too quickly, then he goes and does EXACTLY what MM did with Whale (which Charming found out about and punched him for but ultimately they were cursed and Charming knows that David screwed up royally and actually LOST MM, but that Snowing is still TL so it doesn’t matter) and Graham did with Regina (which Emma knew about and called him out on taking the “safe” and “easy” route in being with Regina when he doesn’t feel anything but she was kissing him after that and he was her flicker of hope (JMO’s words, she also mentioned Hook in that….I swear JMO is the only one who hasn’t forgotten about Graham. Shoelaces and everything. It’s everyone else who writes him out. Hate that they retconned it to eliminate her emotional involvement with that. She wasn’t IN love with him but she was on the verge of letting herself feel something for someone again. His death just…put a stop to that. THANKFULLY Hook didn’t go through with it. He had the sense to hit on someone who called him out for it and since it’s someone who wasn’t around for any of his confessions or the kiss, she must have REALLY seen something earlier on. Plus she’s Tink, Ms. Pixie Dust and TL.
I really hope this alleviates any fears people might have. It’s one thing to ignore one or two little details (like Graham, RIP), but it’s another to completely undermine the entire show by forcing something to fit in when it doesn’t. Some things are easier to explain and write off the hate than others. As far as I see, they’ve made a point of showing that family isn’t always blood. Sometimes that’s good, sometimes that’s bad and biological families have screwed up just as much on this show if not moreso than adoptive ones. Henry will have them ALL in his life no matter what, and just because they have a kid together doesn’t mean they end up together (see: Milah/Rumple).
I believe in CaptainSwan. InItForTheLongHaul. (Sorry it was so wordy but I felt like these things needed to be addressed. I’m sure others will be able to say it in far less and it will make more sense / stick with people, but I tried.)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Interesting points by everyone (as expected). Yes we always are happy to see new faces around here!
Name stuff – He wasn’t Hook until after the Rumple stuff so he needed another name to start with whereas James Hook was….well he wasn’t *always* Hook but it fit him and it’s the name we knew when we started with him because that had already happened to him, whereas we’re seeing his origins here! (Much improved story too!)
Why wasn’t it James? Well…I think we have a few too many named James already. We have actual James, then Charming (actually David) pretending to be James and while that led to us having quite a laugh about Grumpy wanting to know if David is his “name name” (which also led to some funny stuff from back then that I’m not sure where is now), well….it would be confusing! Plus it would tie in with the traditional Hook who is the villain so I’m fine with him having a different name!
As for name meanings for Killian, from what I can tell they are varied. Depending on what part of the world, which source you use, etc etc. I’ve seen completely opposite things in some cases so I’m not sure what to believe in regards to that. Names on the show are definitely interesting! Though Emma was supposed to be Anna originally etc etc. Not all are obvious like Regina/Queen but I like that some are. I’ve always loved ArchiBALD HOPPER = Jiminy Cricket (since he’s bald in the cartoon) for one. That said I’m sure we could all find name meanings for things that would be easy to misconstrue with shipper goggles and then wonder what they were thinking!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
I am not worried about PirateFairy. The marketing department may be gearing up for the made for DVD movie Pirate Fairy set to be released in march/April 2014. Hook is voiced by the actor who plays Loki. Sorry if someone else posted this.
Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.
@MysteryKat25 – love your new avatar, and loved everything you said about the triangle!!!! Very comprehensive 🙂 You took the thoughts right out of my head lol.
I am not worried about PirateFairy. The marketing department may be gearing up for the made for DVD movie Pirate Fairy set to be released in march/April 2014. Hook is voiced by the actor who plays Loki. Sorry if someone else posted this.
I don’t remember reading this, but what’s this about????
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
@MysteryKat25 – love your new avatar, and loved everything you said about the triangle!!!! Very comprehensive
You took the thoughts right out of my head lol.sweetgrass wrote: I am not worried about PirateFairy. The marketing department may be gearing up for the made for DVD movie Pirate Fairy set to be released in march/April 2014. Hook is voiced by the actor who plays Loki. Sorry if someone else posted this.
I don’t remember reading this, but what’s this about????
It’s a cartoon/animation …. here’s some info ….
The Pirate Fairy is another in Disney’s line of Tinker Bell films and will apparently be the first where Neverland is shown. Hiddleston will play James while Hendricks is voicing a fairy named Zarina. ”James and Zarina are like best friends for a while. But you realize it’s all an act and he’s covering his ruthless and cunning nature,” said Hiddleston. “And his real name is Captain Hook. Captain James Hook.”
Hendricks said it’s been a life-long dream of hers to be in a Disney film and described her as“scrappy and inquisitive and smart and scientific and daring and really fun to play.” Holmes said Zarina is ”a tough, kick-ass pirate with some vulnerability.”
And since we did mention Hiddleston will have a song in the film we should probably also mention the audience encouraged him to sing a bit of “The Bare Necessities” on the spot as a preview. The Pirate Fairy is set for a Spring 2014 (presumably direct-to-video) release.
@surayya thanks for the info! Sounds like an interesting movie 🙂
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
Okay, the posts regarding foreshadowing turned up again on my tumblr so i’ll post them here:
Confirmed by Adam to be deliberate. So by that extension I am also assuming this to be deliberate:
In that picture you see a beanstalk and a sun – it was a VERY sunny day in the EF when Emma and Hook went to climb up the beanstalk. In fact it was so bright I remember everyone squinting in that scene hahaha.
The star for me indicates Neverland – it’s a very distinctive star, and the moon opposite also indicates Neverland – since currently it seems to be a very dark place and apart from Good Form I don’t think we’ve ever seen it during the day. In fact I’m pretty much positive that in the present day it’s a land of perpetual night.
Obviously in this picture you can see a pirate keychain. Enough said. If you look at the keyrings right next to it – it’s turned around so you can’t see what it’s showing. The only keyrings you can see in any detail are that of the Swan and the Pirate. I mean really, it does not get less subtle than this.
Pirate ship in the background.
Interesting.
The comparison of Emma to a magic bean.
http://keepcalmwearetimeless.tumblr.com/post/54276562721/captain-swan-foreshadowing-part-1-part-2
More foreshadowing:
Helm in the bakery window, shown in an Emma scene. It’s also interesting to note that that helm was also shown VERY clearly in the background when Emma and August were having their “date” conversation. These things aren’t done by accident.
Also related – Emma and Graham, when they were arguing about Regina, there was a “marine garage” in the background. I mean really.
In 2×10 there were Swans swimming around – AT NIGHT – when Hook and Cora dismounted from the ship. Coincidence – NOPE.
This one could just be fun, but KAE = Killian and Emma. I don’t think it’s an accident to be honest but whatever lol.
Hooks ring – has what could be either a Swan’s head or a hook (look at the way it’s shaped – it really could be either/or) WITH A FRIGGING HEART AROUND IT I MEAN REALLY
NOT SUBTLE
We’ve already freaked out about this at length lol
And finally this could just be a coincidence but on the 3D cover of the DVD you have Emma looking at the curse smoke and when you remove Emma from the equation you get Hook’s ship?????????
Yeah, I don’t think it’s a coincidence either.
http://keepcalmwearetimeless.tumblr.com/post/69893213580/captain-swan-foreshadowing-part-2-part-1
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
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