The Captain Swan thread!

[sweetgrass]

I don’t quite get some of the other ships… Sometimes think that that are more Anti Hook then pro whatever their ship is.

 

completely agree.  One argument that troubles me is that Hook should give up his chance at true love to show character development.  Hook already came back to save the town even though it put him at risk and almost everyone treated Hook with disdain. Emma did reach out to Hook but she wasn’t overly friendly.  He let Rumple on his ship  — the same ship that Rumple killed Milah on and mutilated Hook.  He  helped save Charming without expectation of any reward.  He even questioned Charming sing his praises.  He is willing to move on from vengeance and his old love.  He didn’t rejoice over the deaths of Rumple and Pan — both of whom have tormented hook.  He looked sad and compassionately for the suffering of Rumple’s surviving loved ones.  That is character development.

Hook likes Emma.  They have chemistry, a connection, an understanding and a physical attraction, so why shouldn’t Hook pursue Emma?  SF folks seem to think that Hook should bow out completely and that Hook should sail away or have a diminishing storyline.  Just because Neal had sex with Emma 11 years ago does not mean he has perpetual first dibs on her.  That smacks of treating women as chattel.  I don’t like it.  That relationship was over.  Both Emma and Neal had sex with other people and Neal was engaged to someone else less than 10days ago.  Why should Hook step aside from pursuing a relationship with Emma, a single woman for a man that was engaged to another woman?  Neal’s actions do not like true love And it’s unfair to both hook and Emma to expect that Neal’s current feelings should trump everything else.  Neal soundly rejected Hook as a step father.  Hook laid it all on the line for Bae but Bae wasn’t interested.  Bae/Neal can’t expect to reject abandoned folks, like Hook and Emma and then expect those folks to drop everything to suit his current needs/desires.  Hook gave Neal fair warning about his intentions for Emma.  He is letting Emma know he willing to fight for her.  I am sure if Emma told him she chose Bae or someone else he would stop pursuing her.

For me, I don’t understand why Emma would chose an angsty relationship full of pain and sorrow over a new fun, joyful relationship with a man that believes in her and would stand by her no matter what.

i do agree that  Hook needs to do more than pine for Emma and want to see him kick butt.  He is a great character on his own and has good chemistry with other characters.  I would like to see his other relationships explored and I would like to see him have a hobby.  I didn’t know this, but in canon Peter Pan, Hook was a musician.  I would like to see that.

[Killian Jones]

One of the arguments I’ve seen a few times is that Hook should step aside so that Bae, Emma and Henry can be a family. I’ve seen that enough times so that I already have my response memorized lol.  First thing is Hook was prepared to do just that, put his heart aside to allow Bae to have his chance without him interfering. It just happened that Pan caused a curse forcing them to part and I dont see how anybody who loves anybody could just let them go when there’s a strong possibility they’ll never see that person again.

Next thing is Neal and Emma being together isn’t the only way to have a legitimate family. They are all a family and an unconventional one at that. Neal and Emma will always love each other but that doesn’t mean they can never love again and that the new love they find is in any way inferior to the one they’ve moved on from. Henry, Emma and Neal are already a family but that doesn’t mean Emma and Neal have to be together in the romantic sense.

[Killian Jones]

@sweetgrass would be easy to fit in since Colin is a musician 😛

[surayya]

SF folks seem to think that Hook should bow out completely and that Hook should sail away or have a diminishing storyline.  Just because Neal had sex with Emma 11 years ago does not mean he has perpetual first dibs on her.  That smacks of treating women as chattel.  I don’t like it.  That relationship was over.  Both Emma and Neal had sex with other people and Neal was engaged to someone else less than 10days ago.  Why should Hook step aside from pursuing a relationship with Emma, a single woman for a man that was engaged to another woman?  Neal’s actions do not like true love And it’s unfair to both hook and Emma to expect that Neal’s current feelings should trump everything else.

Nods in total agreement.

I’m so glad I dont visit other threads on this forum & only go to my “safe” groups on FB. It sounds like the internet is a scary place for CS shippers right now … again *sigh* I now totally (or at least 99%) miss all the Hook/CS hate. Although I did get told just this morning that OutlawQueen is getting some mega hate too — I’m wondering how much of this hate is actually really perpetuated by “septic SQ’ers” (& do mean just the septic fans- not all SQ fans in general) who refuse to simply have a head canon & fanfic ship, after being told SQ wasnt happening. Someone mentioned there was a OQ & CS unite hash tag or something like that- very sad that yet another ship is being bashed, before it even really gets started (I have not-so-fond memories of that being our ship not so long ago…. oh, wait, seems it still is us lol). I dont care who anyone ships or why they ship it, it’s not mys place to tell others if what they love is right or wrong, I can state facts, opinion & what I wish or feel should/has happened, but not bash anyone for their thoughts or feelings, that’s just wrong- wish more of the fandom would ship & let ship.

*Hands out Hookie cookies & flasks of Rum, for all those wading through the shipping war zones on their way to & from here*

[surayya]

One of the arguments I’ve seen a few times is that Hook should step aside so that Bae, Emma and Henry can be a family. I’ve seen that enough times so that I already have my response memorized lol. First thing is Hook was prepared to do just that, but his heart aside to allow Bae to have his chance without him interfering. It just happened that Pan caused a curse forcing them to part and I dont see how anybody who loves anybody could just let them go when there’s a strong possibility they’ll never see that person again. Next thing is Neal and Emma being together isn’t the only way to have a legitimate family. They are all a family and an unconventional one at that. Neal and Emma will always love each other but that doesn’t mean they can never love again and that the new love they find is in any way inferior to the one they’ve moved on from. Henry, Emma and Neal are already a family but that doesn’t mean Emma and Neal have to be together in the romantic sense.

 

Yes, a thousand times this!

The few times people bring SF up, this is the number one argument they bring to the table…. My response is this, so are all the people who are divorced, with a child or children from said other relationship, no longer allowed to remarry or find new partners/relationships, because the 1st person they have a child with is it? So they still have to stay with said person if they emotionally abuse them (whether intentional or not)? What if they are abandoned… don’t get told their lover is leaving, they just leave & never contact you again? What if this person commits a crime, then allows a minor to be involved in said crime, then allows said minor to be sent to prison for their own crime? Are you saying you would go back to that, because it’s best for your child?

Not had a single person say they’d go back to someone if they did that stuff to them- because it’s easy to point out that then other major characters shouldn’t be allowed to have another love ie. Rumple & Regina.

 

I honestly feel Killian stepping aside was keeping with-in his honorable character, but he didnt “Have” to do that. Emma is not a piece of meat, she should be with whomever she wants & she’s already told Neal she doesnt want to be with him ‘like that’ anymore, she has NOT said anything even remotely similar to Killian. For the most part she has done NOTHING to dissuade Killian- despite him clearly laying out for her, what he feels & that he will win her heart eventually.

I think what the other side dont get, is that Emma has been severely hurt & damaged emotionally. She finds it hard to be vulnerable, even often around her own family still. She has massive problems with trust, She still has fears of being left/ abandoned. She still struggles with being loved- logically she can be rational about what happened to her & even understand the whys & hows of it all- being sent away as a baby etc, even what Neal did- twice, I guess; but that doesnt diminish decades of pain & emotional trauma, inflicted by him (whether he intended for that to happen or not). Her parents didn’t really have much of a choice in sending her away, Neal did, twice & thats not something that she can just ‘forget decades of trauma & pain, to ‘get over it”, which she would have to (IMO) do, for a healthy relationship with Neal to realistically work, Emma’s already told him that being around him hurts her (so it cant be argued that it ‘wasnt that bad’). There is a massive difference between accepting/ forgiving someone for past wrongs/wounds & being 100% vulnerable & trusting, in the most intimate ways possible, that a healthy relationship requires- for Emma’s sake, I think she needs someone who wont EVER do to her, what has already been done- someone who wont leave her, who will stand with her & Henry, fight for them above himself, no matter what may come- give his life if he must, someone whom she knows that if the worst should happen, he will have no doubts, no 2nd thoughts or hesitations about standing & fighting with her, for her. I dont think she will truly blossom into the her full potential, until she feels safe enough with someone to do drop her walls & just ‘be’. To me Killian has proven to be this person, Neal has not.

We (CS’ers) have been asked by SF shippers (on another site) more than once, if we would still ‘hate’ Neal if he was played by a ‘hotter’ actor, I always reply “No”, Neal could be the hottest guy on earth & I wouldn’t ship SF (as it stands, nothing Neal has done has ‘earned’ him is redemption with Emma IMO), but I may enjoy watching his scenes more if he was the hottest guy on earth lol 😉 . We have been asked if we’d ship CS if Colin wasnt Hook & I honestly answer, I don’t know (& I honestly dont!)- I don’t usually ‘like’ pirates, but Colin has me LOVING this version of Hook, so I dont know how much of that is how Hook is written & how much of it is the way in which Colin brings Hook to life & gives him layers etc.

CS for me is the same as Graham & Emma- I shipped them until he was killed & I didnt ship Emma with anyone until Killian came along (despite ‘knowing’ A&E would have her end up with Henry’s Dad/Bae), I’m glad they arent doing that with them, I want a modern day/ real world FT – the kind we all hope we get, but dont think that it could ever really happen.

 

Ekkkk- sorry for the rambling!

[CaptainEala]

this has to be real!!!!

I don’t think it is anymore – spoilers indicate that Emma and Henry get into Emma’s bug in 3×12, presumably to head back to Storybrooke. *sigh*

@surayya – i saw that on tumblr, about the chain! Definitely there on purpose, i mean, who hangs a chain in their apartment? Lol.

I’m fine.

WE’RE NEVER FINE

NEVER

I do think everyone here is pretty nice and I try to be respectful as well. Sometimes I honestly question if everyone is watching the same show (ex. Emma was more emotional about saying goodbye to Archie than she was about saying goodbye to Hook. Okay, come on now . . . even my husband laughed out loud at that one).

Lol!!!

In general I think everyone is still pretty emotional from the midseason finale regardless of which ship you sail.

Omg yes. They literally hit everybody:

• Neal fans
• Rumple fans
• Rumbelle fans
• Emma fans
• Snowing fans
• Pan fans
• Felix fans
• Regina fans
• SwanQueen fans
• Captain Swan fans

Gotta say… that’s impressive for one episode.

You bring up a good point here, because from what we’ve actually seen so far, “Hook” hasnt really been a true villain- sure he’s done some villainous things sure, but honestly, all of the characters have- hero or villain.

I agree with @surayya here… Hook has  failed in most of his villainous acts. He’s never been one to kick butt lol… that’s Emma’s job.

He’s definitely more of a Byronic Hero than anything (which is a variant of an anti-hero). The characteristics of a Byronic Hero are:

• a proud man
• moody
• cynical
• with defiance on his brow
• and misery in his heart
• a scorner of his kind
• implacable in revenge
• yet capable of deep and strong affection

To be honest i think that description describes him to a “T” lol.

Some of these gifsets are just killing me

I feel your pain…. still not over Sunday to be honest…. uuuuugh

INCREDIBLE VIDEO A few seconds in….is that?….in that episode?….I think it’s…*faints* it’s the tongue thing! THIS IS NOT A DRILL. She does the tongue thing before turning to face Hook to go climb the beanstalk. It’s in Tallahassee! (I posted this on tumblr just now as well but HAD to share this! Incredible video & new meaning to their journey in that episode!) This is why I love rewatching everything once we have a new chunk of information aka new season or in this case mini-season. I haven’t even started a rewatch yet but that video was incredible and then it hit me with the parallel to the end of 3×11. *falls over*

OMG MYSTERYKAT I DID NOT NEED THIS???? AND SHE TURNS IN HIS DIRECTION THE EXACT SAME WAY IN 2X06 AND 3X11???

*expires*

Beautiful video, i loved that movie Anastasia!!!

Jennifer wrote: I don’t quite get some of the other ships… Sometimes think that that are more Anti Hook then pro whatever their ship is.

completely agree.  One argument that troubles me is that Hook should give up his chance at true love to show character development.  Hook already came back to save the town even though it put him at risk and almost everyone treated Hook with disdain. Emma did reach out to Hook but she wasn’t overly friendly.  He let Rumple on his ship  – the same ship that Rumple killed Milah on and mutilated Hook.  He  helped save Charming without expectation of any reward.  He even questioned Charming sing his praises.  He is willing to move on from vengeance and his old love.  He didn’t rejoice over the deaths of Rumple and Pan — both of whom have tormented hook.  He looked sad and compassionately for the suffering of Rumple’s surviving loved ones.  That is character development.

Completely agree with both of you!

For me, I don’t understand why Emma would chose an angsty relationship full of pain and sorrow over a new fun, joyful relationship with a man that believes in her and would stand by her no matter what.

^^^^^^^^ That’s why i don’t get why everyone ships Emma&Happiness, and yet, her relationship with Neal gives her pain. She said so herself. So honestly it just baffles me that anyone could ship Swanfire. *shrugs*

 

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[CaptainEala]

Next thing is Neal and Emma being together isn’t the only way to have a legitimate family. They are all a family and an unconventional one at that. Neal and Emma will always love each other but that doesn’t mean they can never love again and that the new love they find is in any way inferior to the one they’ve moved on from. Henry, Emma and Neal are already a family but that doesn’t mean Emma and Neal have to be together in the romantic sense.

^^^^^ That’s the thing about OUAT – it completely tears about the whole granola family thing. And Neal DID love again already. So we have seen that he’s fully capable of moving on from Emma, and was actively trying to.

If i knew she was ok, then i could move on.

Like it’s there in black and white. Moving on was something he fully intended to do, and he did, confirmed by Adam Horowitz himself. I’ve said it a bazillion times – but can we imagine Snow or Charming moving on? Could we imagine Belle or Rumple moving on? NO.

Regina ruined thousands of lives over the loss of her TL – it literally made her evil and “evil isn’t born – it’s made.”

I should have let her die on that horse.

That line gave me chills. That’s what the loss of her True Love did to her.

And look at Hook – we don’t even know for certain that Milah was his TL, and yet it took THREE LIFETIMES for him to move on.

If somebody truly loves you, they can never move on.

If you died i would not be able to move on!

I think Adam and Eddie have been pretty clear. The question is…

….why is Swanfire an exception to the rule?

 

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[surayya]

Agreed @CaptainEala – with everything you’ve just said in your above posts.

I also have to say since you pointed it out, kudos to the PTB for filling heartbreak hotel with the entire Once fandom for the hiatus – the force is strong with those writers 😉

[CaptainEala]

I honestly feel Killian stepping aside was keeping with-in his honorable character, but he didnt “Have” to do that. Emma is not a piece of meat, she should be with whomever she wants & she’s already told Neal she doesnt want to be with him ‘like that’ anymore, she has NOT said anything even remotely similar to Killian. For the most part she has done NOTHING to dissuade Killian- despite him clearly laying out for her, what he feels & that he will win her heart eventually.

To be honest i think he stood aside only for the purpose of Henry’s happiness. He said so himself – “for the sake of the boy”. But Henry’s happiness is -by extension- Emma’s happiness.

He knows that what Neal and Emma had was not an example of TL. So he decided to speed up the whole process of Emma choosing him. I think he KNOWS that Emma will chose him eventually, though naturally there are doubts – might Emma be able to let Neal back in? Will Henry’s happiness prove more important to Emma than her own?

I just love what he did because he essentially eliminated the triangle himself. He proved that it was not him that was keeping Swanfire apart – that’s it’s Neal and Emma themselves, and it always will be.

There is a massive difference between accepting/ forgiving someone for past wrongs/wounds & being 100% vulnerable & trusting, in the most intimate ways possible, that a healthy relationship requires- for Emma’s sake, I think she needs someone who wont EVER do to her, what has already been done- someone who wont leave her, who will stand with her & Henry, fight for them above himself, no matter what may come- give his life if he must, someone whom she knows that if the worst should happen, he will have no doubts, no 2nd thoughts or hesitations about standing & fighting with her, for her. I dont think she will truly blossom into the her full potential, until she feels safe enough with someone to do drop her walls & just ‘be’. To me Killian has proven to be this person, Neal has not.

ALL of this.

 

I think we CSers know that the triangle is done.

Absolutely done.

To me, and to a lot of other CSers, 3×11 just merely cemented what we already know – that Emma and Killian are True Love. I don’t think we’ll be getting another “I love you” from Emma to Neal – she has already said that “she always will BUT” which has a definite ring of finality to it.

The only man Emma will be saying “i love you” to this season is Killian.

I’m 99% sure lol.

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[surayya]

To be honest i think he stood aside only for the purpose of Henry’s happiness. He said so himself – “for the sake of the boy”. But Henry’s happiness is -by extension- Emma’s happiness. He knows that what Neal and Emma had was not an example of TL. So he decided to speed up the whole process of Emma choosing him. I think he KNOWS that Emma will chose him eventually, though naturally there are doubts – might Emma be able to let Neal back in? Will Henry’s happiness prove more important to Emma than her own? I just love what he did because he essentially eliminated the triangle himself. He proved that it was not him that was keeping Swanfire apart – that’s it’s Neal and Emma themselves, and it always will be. & ……. I think we CSers know that the triangle is done. Absolutely done. To me, and to a lot of other CSers, 3×11 just merely cemented what we already know – that Emma and Killian are True Love. I don’t think we’ll be getting another “I love you” from Emma to Neal – she has already said that “she always will BUT” which has a definite ring of finality to it. The only man Emma will be saying “i love you” to this season is Killian. I’m 99% sure lol.

Whoops, I should have been clearer, I meant it was with-in character for him to want whats best for Emma & by extension, Henry – if that’s allowing Neal another chance, to try to get Emma to give him a chance at having another chance, so Henry has the chance of his bio parents being together, then that’s what he’ll do- not that he felt he owed Neal for any reason- as he told Neal, Emma wasnt likely to allow him back in after doing what he did to her & if Henry knew exactly what happened, he might not want his Mum & Dad “together” either.

& Yes agreed, this ep for me pretty much killed the triangle- why of all people choose Killian to be the one to go get Emma, when Neal is Henry’s father. She doesnt have her memories, it’s not like she’ll remember him & even when she does remember him, it’s not like they are a couple or anything & surely he’d want to be with Henry again ASAP since it’s been a yr. Killian was chosen (again) to be paired with Emma, for a specific reason- the same reason we’ve been harping on about for the last 1 & 1/2 seasons to be exact 😉

I’d love if S3 ended with a whispered ‘I love you’ or ‘I do to’ from Emma to (or even towards) Killian- epic-ness (is that even a word lol), would be maybe right as she’s about to bestow TLK, then followed by ‘I told you I’d win your heart’ & his dancing eyebrows 😉 but that wont happen until much later, I’m sure 😉

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